Marilyn C Posted January 7, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,204 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted January 7, 2018 35 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said: The true Israel are those who follow Christ . OH I know their is natural Israel too. and I know we aint jews. but , TRUE ISRALE is not THE FLESH ISRAEL.......................paul said it . so does old test . THEY are not all ISRALE who are of Israel. meaning the children of the flesh only are not. never were. always a remenat that were truly of the spirit, . ITS ALL HEAVENLY SISTER and JESUS IS KING OF IT> amen. 34 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said: But one day she shall descend. for now the KINGDOM is within all believes. THE KINGDOM of heaven are those in CHRIST . SING IS SISTAH , SING IT .............. just wanted to encouarage you . Hi friend, I get encouraged by the truth and that is what I sing about. So we are talking of Israel & the Body of Christ. Firstly God Himself distinguishes three groups which He Himself has made. `Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks (Gentiles) or to the church of God.` (1 Cor. 10: 32) Now as to Israel - `For they are not all Israel who are of Israel. `(Rom. 9: 6) Clearly saying that not all of Israel are of the promise, for some are just of the flesh and do not believe God`s promises, while some are true Israelis, who believe the promise of God to them. We know that we, the Body of Christ are of Christ in whom are all the promises. Two groups - Some in Israel believed God`s promises to them, (Heb. 11) while we came later and received promises to us as the Body of Christ, through Him. It`s not all heavenly, bro, as the scripture tells us quite clearly there will be people, nations, kings on this earth in the millennium and into eternity. God didn`t have an oops when He made man on the earth, and He certainly didn`t make another oops when He made the nation of Israel to rule over the nations of the earth. regards, Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted January 8, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 8, 2018 On 1/6/2018 at 9:22 PM, Spock said: Thanks. two things on my mind to ask you.. 1. When do,you seemthe rebuilt temple, if there is one, being built? I figured the covenant would allow for that. 2. Are you sure the man of sin will be revealed at the Daniel 9:27 “peace covenant with the many?” I see him being revealed at the Abomination. It seemed to me the first half of the week the people won’t know him for who he really is. Anyhow, I have to read and reread your answers and then ponder them all. Thanks for the many details. I expect this "covenant" will be done behind closed doors and no one will know the time, or even if. No need to speculate on WHEN for the temple: we just know it will be ready and daily sacrifices every day when the man of sin walks in. I think he will be revealed to the masses when he says he is God. Perhaps astute people may know who he is before this, when he takes down three nations quickly. I think we agree here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted January 8, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 8, 2018 On 1/2/2018 at 8:39 PM, Marilyn C said: Hi Dennis, I would place the 7 months of burying the bodies of the Russian Federation, (plus the armies of Iran, Ethiopia and Libya) in the 220 days, (7 mths & 10 days prior to starting their sacrifices) and the 7 years of burning the weapons over the 7 year trib. Marilyn. I think the 2300 days was the time to clean the temple after Antiochus' abomination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted January 8, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,204 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, iamlamad said: I think the 2300 days was the time to clean the temple after Antiochus' abomination. I don`t believe the context of Dan. 8: 9 - 11 agrees with that, bro. Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted January 8, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 8, 2018 9 hours ago, Marilyn C said: I don`t believe the context of Dan. 8: 9 - 11 agrees with that, bro. Marilyn. Then you are simply not reading what is written! There was a ram, representing Persia. Then there was a Goat representing Greece. And a big horn representing Alexander the Great. The goat destroyed the ram. But then, the horn broke and four little horns came up. We know this represents the kingdom of Alexander the Great was turned over to his four generals. But really, only one was over the Holy Land and that was the Seleucus kingdom. 19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be. 20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. 22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power. Note well "in the last end of the indignation..." What "indignation?" Daniel is still in ancient history. The indignation of the Seleucus dynasty! 23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. Today we would say "in the latter time of their dynasty:" Daniel did not move 3000 years into the future between any of these verses! The very context of this entire chapter is the Grecian kingdom split into four dynasties, and in particular the one dynasty that ruled over the Holy Land. So the latter time of WHAT kingdom? IN CONTEXT it can only be the later time of the Seleucus dynasty. And the only man that fits what happened is Antiochus Epiphanes. He lost most of the land won by Alexander and Seleucus. Sorry, but Rome totally destroyed what was left of the 4 Grecian dynasties. Remember Cleopatra and Mark Antony? They were the very end of the Grecian dynasties. How then can anyone imagine that this is for our future? 9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. 10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. This fits Antiochus. IN CONTEXT it can be no other. Pullpit Commentary: "The reference is sufficiently obvious to Antiochus. The description is accurate; he sprang from one of the four horns or dynasties that succeeded the great conqueror. He carried his arms to the east, but mainly to the south against Egypt." "It was necessary that Israel should be prominent in this part of the prophecy; it all leads up to the persecution the Jews endured at the hands of Epiphanes." Gill's commentary: "And out of one of them came forth a little horn,.... Meaning not the kingdom of Titus Vespasian, as Jarchi; nor the kingdom of the Turks, as Saadiah; but the kingdom of Antiochia, as Aben Ezra and Jacchiades; or rather Antiochus Epiphanes, who sprung from the kingdom of the Seleucidae in Syria, or from Seleucus king of Syria, one of the four horns before mentioned: this is that sinful root said to come out from thence, in the Apocrypha: "And there came out of them a wicked root Antiochus surnamed Epiphanes, son of Antiochus the king, who had been an hostage at Rome, and he reigned in the hundred and thirty and seventh year of the kingdom of the Greeks.'' (1 Maccabees 1:10) called "a horn", because he had some power and authority, and which he usurped and increased in; though but a "little" one in comparison of Alexander the great horn" "and toward the pleasant land; the land of Judea, so called because of its delightful situation, and great fruitfulness; and because God chose it above all others for his habitation; where his word, and worship, and ordinances, were observed and enjoyed; and where the Messiah should be born and dwell; into this Antiochus led his army, and greatly afflicted and distressed it; he made himself master of most places in Galilee and Judea." Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary: "9. little horn—not to be confounded with the little horn of the fourth kingdom in Da 7:8. The little horn in Da 7:8 comes as an eleventh horn after ten preceding horns. In Da 8:9 it is not an independent fifth horn, after the four previous ones, but it arises out of one of the four existing horns. This horn is explained (Da 8:23) to be "a king of fierce countenance," etc. Antiochus Epiphanes is meant. Greece with all its refinement produces the first, that is, the Old Testament Antichrist. Antiochus had an extraordinary love of art, which expressed itself in grand temples. He wished to substitute Zeus Olympius for Jehovah at Jerusalem." Coffman Commentaries: "The four notable horns that followed Alexander were most circumstantially fulfilled by the division of his world-empire into four parts: (1) Cassandra controlled Macedonia and Greece; (2) Lysimachus controlled Thrace and Asia Minor; (3) Ptolemy I took firm control of Egypt; and (4) Seleucus controlled Syria and Babylonia. As the prophecy said, "toward the four winds of heaven." Note also that none of these ever attained the importance of Alexander's kingdom, despite the fact of the Seleucids gaining some preeminence. It was from them that the blasphemous "little horn" arose to challenge the Jewish religion in the times of the Maccabees. Palestine at first fell under the control of Egypt, but later was taken over by the Seleucids. It was from them that the terrible "little horn" developed. All of Alexander's empire finally disappeared into the dominions of the Roman Empire. The last little remnant was that of the Ptolemys in Egypt; but Pompey reduced it to a Roman Province in 63 B.C. The famed Cleopatra was involved in events related to that. " Geneva Study Bible: "8:9 And out of one of them came forth a l little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the m south, and toward the n east, and toward the o pleasant [land]. (l) Which was Antiochus Epiphanes, who was of a servile and flattering nature, and also there were others between him and the kingdom: and therefore he is here called the little horn, because neither princely conditions, nor any other thing was in him, why he should obtain this kingdom. " The commentaries are almost unanimous that this is about Antiochus. Can you come up and any kind of an arugment with scripture that this is about our future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted January 8, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 8, 2018 Antiochus IV is discussed here [Daniel 11:21-35] The little horn of Daniel 7 is given here [Daniel 11:36-45] This is the antichrist of the 70th week decreed for Israel still pending Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted January 8, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,204 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted January 8, 2018 7 hours ago, iamlamad said: Note well "in the last end of the indignation..." What "indignation?" Daniel is still in ancient history. The indignation of the Seleucus dynasty! 23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. Today we would say "in the latter time of their dynasty:" Daniel did not move 3000 years into the future between any of these verses! The very context of this entire chapter is the Grecian kingdom split into four dynasties, and in particular the one dynasty that ruled over the Holy Land. So the latter time of WHAT kingdom? IN CONTEXT it can only be the later time of the Seleucus dynasty. And the only man that fits what happened is Antiochus Epiphanes. He lost most of the land won by Alexander and Seleucus. Sorry, but Rome totally destroyed what was left of the 4 Grecian dynasties. Remember Cleopatra and Mark Antony? They were the very end of the Grecian dynasties. How then can anyone imagine that this is for our future? Can you come up and any kind of an arugment with scripture that this is about our future? Hi iamlamad, Thank you for explaining your view. And yes I do agree that it refers to the area of the Seleucid dynasty. That has gone as you say, as Rome etc. So when God says - `Understand, son of man, the vision refers to the time of the end.`.....`...for at the appointed time the end shall be.` (Dan. 8: 17 & 19) What do you think that is referring to? Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted January 9, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 9, 2018 13 hours ago, Marilyn C said: Hi iamlamad, Thank you for explaining your view. And yes I do agree that it refers to the area of the Seleucid dynasty. That has gone as you say, as Rome etc. So when God says - `Understand, son of man, the vision refers to the time of the end.`.....`...for at the appointed time the end shall be.` (Dan. 8: 17 & 19) What do you think that is referring to? Marilyn. Read it IN CONTEXT: 15While I, Daniel, was watching the vision and trying to understand it, there before me stood one who looked like a man. 16And I heard a man’s voice from the Ulai calling, “Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the vision.” 17As he came near the place where I was standing, I was terrified and fell prostrate. “Son of man,”b he said to me, “understand that the vision concerns the time of the end.” 18While he was speaking to me, I was in a deep sleep, with my face to the ground. Then he touched me and raised me to my feet. 19He said: “I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end.c 20 The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. 21The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between its eyes is the first king. 22The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power. 23“In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue, will arise. Daniel is watching the vision and trying to understand it: the vision of the Ram and the Goat. Notice what Gabriel says right after he says, "the appointed time of the end:" He talks about the ram and the goat! He talks about the big horn being replaced by four horns. Then he said, "in the latter part of THEIR REIGN..." In context this can ONLY be about Antiochus. But then, many will just believe what they will and pull these verses out of their context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted January 10, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,204 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted January 10, 2018 16 hours ago, iamlamad said: Read it IN CONTEXT: 15While I, Daniel, was watching the vision and trying to understand it, there before me stood one who looked like a man. 16And I heard a man’s voice from the Ulai calling, “Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the vision.” 17As he came near the place where I was standing, I was terrified and fell prostrate. “Son of man,”b he said to me, “understand that the vision concerns the time of the end.” 18While he was speaking to me, I was in a deep sleep, with my face to the ground. Then he touched me and raised me to my feet. 19He said: “I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end.c 20 The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. 21The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between its eyes is the first king. 22The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power. 23“In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue, will arise. Daniel is watching the vision and trying to understand it: the vision of the Ram and the Goat. Notice what Gabriel says right after he says, "the appointed time of the end:" He talks about the ram and the goat! He talks about the big horn being replaced by four horns. Then he said, "in the latter part of THEIR REIGN..." In context this can ONLY be about Antiochus. But then, many will just believe what they will and pull these verses out of their context. Hi iamlamad, I hear what you are saying, `the latter part of their reign,` Heb. word `malkuyah,` meaning dominion, rule, empire. Now we need to take in Dan. 11 as well. In Dan. 11 we see predicted the course of world history involving continual warfare between two great Empires, the legacy of Alexander the Great. The Seleucid dynasty identified as Assyria, the King of the North, and the Ptolomaic Dynasty, the King of the South, i.e. Egypt including Libya. Daniel (11:40) is finally directed to jump two thousand years until the "Time of the End". These two areas in the Middle East would again return to the focus of world attention. Each contending for key leadership of the Arab Countries, to be recognised as the Moslem Messiah. And from that chapter we see when the `appointed time` is. (Dan. 11: 27) `At that time Michael shall stand up, the great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation, even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered,....` (Dan. 12: 1) Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted January 10, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, Marilyn C said: Hi iamlamad, I hear what you are saying, `the latter part of their reign,` Heb. word `malkuyah,` meaning dominion, rule, empire. Now we need to take in Dan. 11 as well. In Dan. 11 we see predicted the course of world history involving continual warfare between two great Empires, the legacy of Alexander the Great. The Seleucid dynasty identified as Assyria, the King of the North, and the Ptolomaic Dynasty, the King of the South, i.e. Egypt including Libya. Daniel (11:40) is finally directed to jump two thousand years until the "Time of the End". These two areas in the Middle East would again return to the focus of world attention. Each contending for key leadership of the Arab Countries, to be recognised as the Moslem Messiah. And from that chapter we see when the `appointed time` is. (Dan. 11: 27) `At that time Michael shall stand up, the great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation, even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered,....` (Dan. 12: 1) Marilyn. I agree with you that in Daniel 11, Daniel speaks of Antiochus, but in verse 36 changes to the end times, and the future Antichrist Beast of Revelation. And in 12:1, Daniel is at the midpoint of the future 70th week. But this is a different chapter, with a different timeline. The 2300 days in chapter 8 is to the time the temple could be cleansed after Antiochus polluted it. I know many people imagine that the 2300 days is about the future. It is only imagination. We have to go be what is written IN CONTEXT. Keep in mind, there WAS an "appointed time" for the temple to be cleansed and the daily sacrifices continued after Antiochus. And there WILL BE another "appointed time" in the future. Dan. 11:27 is still about Antiochus. He does not switch to the end times until verse 36. Read both chapters in the Amplified Bible. Edited January 10, 2018 by iamlamad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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