John 20:22-23

[Michael Cisneros]

John 20:22-23New International Version (NIV)

²² And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.²³ If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

 

My understanding of these two verses is as follows... He who has received the Holy Spirit has been given the authority to forgive sins by Jesus Christ.  

Your thoughts?

[john1]

26 minutes ago, Michael Cisneros said:

He who has received the Holy Spirit has been given the authority to forgive sins by Jesus Christ.  

I don't know what Jesus is saying there, because he died for the sins of the whole world, by this verse.

1 John chapter 2 verse 2

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

And these next two verses.

Proverbs chapter 10 verse 12

Love covers all wrongs.

1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8

Love covers a great many sins.

[Guest]

I believe that what Christ was saying is that if one receives the Holy Spirit that one has the power to lead others to Christ through the Holy Spirit and therefore that persons sins are forgiven, Only the Finished Work of Jesus Christ on the Cross has the Power to forgive sin. Man cannot forgive sin, only Christ.

[Michael Cisneros]

32 minutes ago, john1 said:

I don't know what Jesus is saying there, because he died for the sins of the whole world, by this verse.

1 John chapter 2 verse 2

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

And these next two verses.

Proverbs chapter 10 verse 12

Love covers all wrongs.

1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8

Love covers a great many sins.

Those are all excellent examples arguing your point.  And I am not disagreeing with your point.  I am just intrigued by the idea that Jesus felt the need to tell his followers that they have received the Holy Spirit, and they now have the authority to forgive sins.  And being Catholic, I believe that John 20:22-23 validates the point that by the power of the Holy Spirit, and with the authority handed down by Jesus Christ, a priest can forgive sins.  This in no way brings glory to the priest.  All power of forgiveness still has The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit as its origin. Again, this is only my understanding.  In absolutely no way do I claim to be more right in this than anyone else.

[Michael Cisneros]

1 minute ago, Rick_Parker said:

I believe that what Christ was saying is that if one receives the Holy Spirit that one has the power to lead others to Christ through the Holy Spirit and therefore that persons sins are forgiven, Only the Finished Work of Jesus Christ on the Cross has the Power to forgive sin. Man cannot forgive sin, only Christ.

And yet in verse 23 Jesus very clearly tells them that any sin they forgive, is forgiven.  If you remove all interpretation and take him word for word, that is.

[Michael Cisneros]

29 minutes ago, eileenhat said:

This has remain a mystery because gentiles in the last 2,000 years were not granted the holy spirit advanced powers as the apostles were.  We are more in the disciple category.

Hence not only could they heal the sick, but grant forgiveness, as Christ once did.  They acted in his stead, while they were living, thus establishing the holy Church for him as no other way would have worked.  That power of the holy spirit did not pass to anyone they taught however.  We are granted access to the guidance of the holy spirit, but prophecy and related powers have not been granted.

We've experienced individual healing from God, the establishment of learning to use the elders of the Church to help heal others and so forth.  All lesser abilities.

There is mention in the Bible of the arrival of more advanced holy spirit gifts at this time, ie. the time of Jacob's troubles as seen in Rev. 11 with the two witnesses being able to wield power (ie. fire out of their mouths) and mention of prophets arising (Mark Taylor, Kim Clement).

And yet, who is to say that our heavenly father isn't watching us right now, just waiting for us to follow through with what these verses say? I figured this would be a super interesting topic.  I love the responses it is getting.   I love deep, and meaningful conversation.  Even if everyone has a differing belief about the subject.

[Michael Cisneros]

1 minute ago, Yowm said:

I always wonder about the part in red...

And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld."
(Joh 20:22-23)
 

It's easy to declare a person's sins are forgiven based on their confession, but on what basis will one individual withhold another's forgiveness...that seems to fall under Church (corporate) discipline.

Precisely.  So far we have only discussed the forgiveness part.  As far as I know, the only unforgivable sin is to deny Christ to your last dying breath.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Yowm said:

I always wonder about the part in red...

And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld."
(Joh 20:22-23)
 

It's easy to declare a person's sins are forgiven based on their confession, but on what basis will one individual withhold another's forgiveness...that seems to fall under Church (corporate) discipline.

Christ told us that if one rejects Christ that we are to walk away from them. They will not be saved since they will have rejected Christ. As for priests, many of whom are guilty themselves of some evil, they cannot forgive sins. Catholicism is a cult.

[Michael Cisneros]

6 minutes ago, Rick_Parker said:

Christ told us that if one rejects Christ that we are to walk away from them. They will not be saved since they will have rejected Christ. As for priests, many of whom are guilty themselves of some evil, they cannot forgive sins. Catholicism is a cult.

Ouch, labels can be harsh.  Though I respect your opinion, and your right to one.

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, Michael Cisneros said:

John 20:22-23New International Version (NIV)

²² And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.²³ If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

 

My understanding of these two verses is as follows... He who has received the Holy Spirit has been given the authority to forgive sins by Jesus Christ.  

Your thoughts?

A lot easier to copy and paste my thoughts on the subject.

Verse 23. Whose soever sins, &c. Cmt. on Mt 16:19 Cmt. on Mt 18:18. It is worthy of remark here that Jesus confers the same power on all the apostles. He gives to no one of them any peculiar authority. If Peter, as the Papists pretend, had been appointed to any peculiar authority, it is wonderful that the Saviour did not here hint at any such pre-eminence. This passage conclusively proves that they were invested with equal power in organizing and governing the church. The authority which he had given Peter to preach the gospel first to the Jews and the Gentiles, does not militate against this. Cmt. on Mt 16:18, Cmt. on Mt 16:19. This authority given them was full proof that they were inspired. The meaning of the passage is not that man can forgive sins--that belongs only to God (Isa 43:23), but that they should be inspired; that in founding the church, and in declaring the will of God, they should be taught by the Holy Ghost to declare on what terms, to what characters, and to what temper of mind God would extend forgiveness of sins. It was not authority to forgive individuals, but to establish in all the churches the terms and conditions on which men might be pardoned, with a promise that God would confirm all that they taught; that all might have assurance of forgiveness who would comply with those terms; and that those who did not comply should not be forgiven, but that their sins should be retained. This commission is as far as possible from the authority which the Roman Catholic claims of remitting sin and of pronouncing pardon.

{z} "Whose soever" Mt 16:19; 18:18