Catholic Idolatry

[Guest shiloh357]

7 minutes ago, Mishael said:

And his words to his audience in his present time were meant to also guide and help future generations. Again it doesn't prove the title of Sola Scriptura.

That is simply not true.  Jesus, unlike his opponents did not cite traditions of any kind.  His appeal was always to the scriptures and He is our example.  It is interesting that Jesus put no stock in tradition.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, Goldie said:

When a Catholic kneels to pray, in front of a Crucifix, a statue of Mary or even a Saint, they are NOT praying to the item in front of them. NO!

They are praying to Mary or to the saint that item represents;  it is still idolatry.

[Mishael]

The Bible does not claim to be the sole rule of faith. Paul wrote, "What you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2). And he instructed, "Hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15).

These oral teachings and traditions have been handed down and entrusted to the Church, and they remain as much a part of the full Christian faith as the Bible. To ignore them is no less a tragedy than to ignore the Bible.

[Goldie]

Just now, shiloh357 said:

They are praying to Mary or to the saint that item represents;  it is still idolatry.

No. Only to 'YOU'. The saints offer prayers up for everyone. Look at Revelation:

Revelation 5:8 

⁸ And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints;

[Mishael]

5 minutes ago, Davida said:

The Scripture defends itself as God-breathed eternal and inerrant. 

2 Tim 3:16 “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training righteousness.” 

Psalm 119:89 "Your word, O Lord, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens.”  

Psalm 138:2“You have exalted above all things your name and your word.” 

Matt 24:35 “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.” 

John 10:35 “The Scripture cannot be broken.” 

John 17: 17 “Your word is truth.” John 17:17 
 

Many claim that 2 Timothy 3:16–17 claims Scripture is sufficient as a rule of faith. But an examination of the verse in context shows that it doesn’t claim that at all; it only claims Scripture is "profitable" (Greek: ophelimos) that is, helpful. Many things can be profitable for moving one toward a goal, without being sufficient in getting one to the goal. Notice that the passage nowhere even hints that Scripture is "sufficient"—which is, of course, exactly what Protestants think the passage means. 

Point out that the context of 2 Timothy 3:16–17 is Paul laying down a guideline for Timothy to make use of Scripture and tradition in his ministry as a bishop. Paul says, "But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (Greek: theopneustos = "God-breathed"), and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works" (2 Tim. 3:14–17). In verse 14, Timothy is initially exhorted to hold to the oral teachings—the traditions—that he received from the apostle Paul. This echoes Paul’s reminder of the value of oral tradition in 1:13–14, "Follow the pattern of the sound words which you haveheard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us" (RSV), and ". . . what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2:2). Here Paul refers exclusively to oral teaching and reminds Timothy to follow that as the "pattern" for his own teaching (1:13). Only after this is Scripture mentioned as "profitable" for Timothy’s ministry. 

The few other verses that you be brought up to "prove" the sufficiency of Scripture are the same. Not one uses the word "sufficient"—each one implies profitability or usefulness, and many are given at the same time as an exhortation to hold fast to the oral teaching of our Lord and the apostles. The thing to keep in mind is that nowhere does the Bible say, "Scripture alone is sufficient," and nowhere does the Bible imply it. 

[Mishael]

8 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

They are praying to Mary or to the saint that item represents;  it is still idolatry.

Then Jesus and many of the prophets were idolaters for praying in temples with images, at least according to your definition.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Mishael

[Mishael]

6 minutes ago, Davida said:

Oh come now, that is balony , do we need to bring in the quotes of the false Mary dogma that has been taught  by the Popes? Do you think GOD only minds if it is an image of the Buddha  or Quan Yin??  It is All idol worship and false gods or goddesses. 

   Lol!  we should just put this stuff in a pdf 's so we don't have to rewrite it every time another RC comes defending the heretical  teachings of the Roman Catholic church. 

Last I checked it was the Protestants who split and started making up their own doctrines as they pleased. Which also resulted in the various divisions between Protestants and each denomination interpreting the Bible in their own way often resulting in heretical teachings which is why we see various so called Churches (cults) spreading in the West which have concerts and let people "feel the Holy Spirit" and claim that you can have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. All these are heresies which was due to the many interpretations of scripture due to the confusing doctrine of Sola Scriptura. Because I'm sure you know aswell as I the Bible isn't clear regarding theology and understanding of the faith the doctrine of Sola Scriptura leaves it open to free interpretation and corruption with no fixed doctrine.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Mishael

[Mishael]

3 minutes ago, Davida said:

Wrong.   you are so poorly taught.

I'd like to see you prove it. 

[Mishael]

4 minutes ago, Davida said:

You like to follow teachings of "men" apparently then the Word of GOD.  That is not what Jesus taught. 

It appears you can't take being refuted on many levels regarding your understanding of the faith.

[Mishael]

2 minutes ago, Davida said:

You are only believing in teachings of 'men'  Mish.  You dismiss the Bible as the Word of God so how can you be shown anything?  Followers of Jesus know the Word of God, they don't follow religions of men. 

Like you follow the words of your so called reformed churches? Anyways it's pointless for me to argue with people who do the exact opposite of what the Bible teaches.