Lead Us Into Tribulation ?

[iamlamad]

12 hours ago, IvyRose said:

Thanks, I will reread and yes, I probably should study the rapture more...However, so far I have been more lead to focus on watching and being ready...We need to live each day like it will be our last.  I know the time of the end is drawing nearer, but my end could be at any time so I guess that is where my focus has been mainly. 

As for the rapture, I know we won't face the wrath of God, which to me means his judgment to hell, but we may and probably will have to face the wrath of men before Jesus comes back.  

Matthew 24 seems pretty clear to me and I don't think  1Thes. is in disagreement with it...

Matthew 24 says that unless those days be shortened no flesh shall be saved, but for the elect's sake they will be shortened. I think this is where 1Thes. comes in with Jesus returning to shorten those days....The dead in Christ shall rise and then we will all be called up to the clouds. 

 

As for "wrath" why not just believe John? He tells us that God's wrath begins at the 6th seal, even before all 7 seals are opened so that the scroll can me unrolled and read, and those events come to pass. That would be the trumpet judgments. They cannot come until all 7 seals are opened so the scroll can be unrolled. 

In other words, God is angry with the world that will not repent, even when judgment comes. Imagine one judgment killing 1/3 of earth's population!  We can be sure that God is angry then. 

If I remember, I counted "watch" 14 or 16 times. Do you think God wants us to be watching? And more than watching, but EXPECTING His coming! 

Actually, God will being to pour out the vials of His wrath to "shorten" those days. If you will notice, the week ends at the 7th vial, yet Jesus does not return then. He does not return until chapter 19, which may be 30 days after the 7th vial that ends the week.  Read through the vials and imagine you are one of the Beast's soldiers. Before long, you would forget all about believers because you would be in darkness and pain! Yet, the week will continue and the Beast WILL HAVE his 42 months. It is not the TIME that will shortened, as in the 42 months, it is he number of days that the Beast and his armies will be actively searching out believers and putting them to death. 

I disagree. Matthew 24 is not Paul's rapture. The timing does not fit 1 thes or 2 Thes, and it gathers from heaven, not earth.

[Unfailing Presence]

38 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

If we read Daniel 12, we see that it is God's intent to crush Israel to the place where their IDF is gone and they know that ONLY GOD can save them. And in truth, they will cry to Him and He WILL save them. What is sad is that it will take that before they as a nation cry to Him. 

It is one of Gods's most basic tenants .

Unto whom much is Given much will be required .

A principle that holds true for individuals and nations .

God first chose them above all the people of the world , and He gave them the physical proof of His presence .

To this day the only people to ever see the physical presence of God the Father represented .

And they turned from Him .

Their hearts will be turned to Him again by there will be a price heavy price  to pay . 

It will be a very painful transition ,but there will be rejoicing as never before at the end of it .

[Unfailing Presence]

On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 2:36 PM, Daniel 11:36 said:

"Who pitched this TO YOU ?"

 

Those stated in Revelation 3:15-20

So you are believing the lie of those who will be spewed out of His mouth and into the tribulation period

Not all who claim to be Christian will be spared .... in fact few 

Daniel , Check out Sister's new thread  " What Is Falling Away "   first page , third post . 

The " testing"  post-trib doctrine is being " pitched " once more .

Interesting I can find this doctrine " pitched " frequently , and yet when I mention it , nobody has ever heard or seen it ?

Very curious indeed . 

[Unfailing Presence]

20 hours ago, Last Daze said:

 

 

I can't find the thread that you mention so I can't confirm the nature of your sarcasm.  Did the person you're referring to actually make the statement above in red or are you bearing a false witness?

Last Daze ,

Then you need to check out Sister's new thread ,  "  What Is Falling Away "  

First page ,  third post .

The post -trib doctrine of tough love testing  of Christians through  " horrific "  circumstances  ,  ( YES HORRIFIC IS THE EXACT WORD USED ) , is being pitched yet again as we speak . 

How interesting that even as you claim to have never heard such a thing , and as often as I have seen it ,  it is being pitched yet again . 

Are you sure you have  never , ever , heard of  it on this site , or could you possibly be bearing " false witness "  ? 

[Last Daze]

4 minutes ago, Unfailing Presence said:

Last Daze ,

Then you need to check out Sister's new thread ,  "  What Is Falling Away "  

First page ,  third post .

The post -trib doctrine of tough love testing  of Christians through  " horrific "  circumstances  ,  ( YES HORRIFIC IS THE EXACT WORD USED ) , is being pitched yet again as we speak . 

How interesting that even as you claim to have never heard such a thing , and as often as I have seen it ,  it is being pitched yet again . 

Are you sure you have  never , ever , heard of  it on this site , or could you possibly be bearing " false witness "  ? 

Why do you twist and embellish things to suit your own agenda?

This is the post.  You clearly misrepresented what I said.  Done with you and your deceptive practices.

 

[Last Daze]

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Trap? Paul was not nice to those who changed his gospel. 

I'm fairly confident that neither of you is Paul.

[IvyRose]

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

As for "wrath" why not just believe John? He tells us that God's wrath begins at the 6th seal, even before all 7 seals are opened so that the scroll can me unrolled and read, and those events come to pass. That would be the trumpet judgments. They cannot come until all 7 seals are opened so the scroll can be unrolled. 

In other words, God is angry with the world that will not repent, even when judgment comes. Imagine one judgment killing 1/3 of earth's population!  We can be sure that God is angry then. 

If I remember, I counted "watch" 14 or 16 times. Do you think God wants us to be watching? And more than watching, but EXPECTING His coming! 

Actually, God will being to pour out the vials of His wrath to "shorten" those days. If you will notice, the week ends at the 7th vial, yet Jesus does not return then. He does not return until chapter 19, which may be 30 days after the 7th vial that ends the week.  Read through the vials and imagine you are one of the Beast's soldiers. Before long, you would forget all about believers because you would be in darkness and pain! Yet, the week will continue and the Beast WILL HAVE his 42 months. It is not the TIME that will shortened, as in the 42 months, it is he number of days that the Beast and his armies will be actively searching out believers and putting them to death. 

I disagree. Matthew 24 is not Paul's rapture. The timing does not fit 1 thes or 2 Thes, and it gathers from heaven, not earth.

Yes, I believe what John is saying...but Revelations is something that I really do need to study and pray for understanding with because I wont even pretend to know all and exactly what it is talking about...

 

But my question still is do pre-tribs believe that Christians won't suffer any in the end? Because if you are saying they will be raptured during the 6th of 7th vial that still does not show that they are not going to suffer and be killed and/or tortured by men during the end times, in my opinion, anyhow.  I mean, they still would have to preserve or endure up until that time anyhow, right.

And I don't know for sure, but maybe that's the time that could be shortened for the elect's sake (time up before the 7th vial) .  Really though, like I said before I am not sure the exact time of the rapture, but it just seems to me that all the scriptures talking about preparing and being ready for it indicates that we will have to suffer some in the end.  We won't be suffering God's wrath being unleashed on us, but we will more than likely suffer men's wrath.  

 

[IvyRose]

I really am just asking questions here because I don't completely understand what either side of this debate believes (pre- trib or post- trib).

 

As a child, one of my favorite songs was "the Testing Time is Just Ahead for the Children of the King."  I know it sounds kind of morbid to be a child's favorite song, but I would listen to it and pray thinking about the end of time, praying that the Lord would help me to be prepared for it, and that was at 8 years old.  

 

I cannot find the version that I liked as a kid.  I did find a version of it, but it is too blue grassy for my taste, but the lyrics are pretty much the same as the version I used to listen to.  I am going to post a link to it so if anyone cares to listen to it, please let me know if it is actually Biblical or not and if not why not? 

 

Thanks and God bless you all. 

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Steve_S
Removed youtube link. please post videos in the appropriate video forum.

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, IvyRose said:

I really am just asking questions here because I don't completely understand what either side of this debate believes (pre- trib or post- trib).

 

As a child, one of my favorite songs was "the Testing Time is Just Ahead for the Children of the King."  I know it sounds kind of morbid to be a child's favorite song, but I would listen to it and pray thinking about the end of time, praying that the Lord would help me to be prepared for it, and that was at 8 years old.  

 

I cannot find the version that I liked as a kid.  I did find a version of it, but it is too blue grassy for my taste, but the lyrics are pretty much the same as the version I used to listen to.  I am going to post a link to it so if anyone cares to listen to it, please let me know if it is actually Biblical or not and if not why not? 

 

Thanks and God bless you all. 

 

God's kids always suffer because we live in the devil's world. But what is coming will be God's wrath poured out on a world that will not repent. And God has made it clear He will take His kids off this planet for that time.  Some imagine they will live through this time. No, God's word for this time is that the saints will be overcome.

So believers today have a choice: be ready and expecting Christ to come first and take us off, or don't be expecting and get left behind. Those then will either take the mark, or lose their head. 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Steve_S
Removed youtube link in quote.

[iamlamad]

59 minutes ago, IvyRose said:

Yes, I believe what John is saying...but Revelations is something that I really do need to study and pray for understanding with because I wont even pretend to know all and exactly what it is talking about...

 

But my question still is do pre-tribs believe that Christians won't suffer any in the end? Because if you are saying they will be raptured during the 6th of 7th vial that still does not show that they are not going to suffer and be killed and/or tortured by men during the end times, in my opinion, anyhow.  I mean, they still would have to preserve or endure up until that time anyhow, right.

And I don't know for sure, but maybe that's the time that could be shortened for the elect's sake (time up before the 7th vial) .  Really though, like I said before I am not sure the exact time of the rapture, but it just seems to me that all the scriptures talking about preparing and being ready for it indicates that we will have to suffer some in the end.  We won't be suffering God's wrath being unleashed on us, but we will more than likely suffer men's wrath.  

 

The truth is, the seals are not a part of the 70th week. They are history. The 5th seal is for the martyrs of the church age. The church has been waiting between the 5th and 6th seal now for 2000 years, almost. The 6th seal begins the Day of the Lord, and the 7th seal opens the 70th week of Daniel. The rapture will take place and instant before the 6th seal, which opens the Day of the Lord. I think God considers the entire church age "tribulation."