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[KAC]

On 2/24/2018 at 6:02 AM, GandalfTheWise said:

 

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by KAC

[GandalfTheWise]

25 minutes ago, KAC said:

Spot on. Except I did have a proper label for her. She's my best friend. You are right though, she became my closest confidant and I did develop strong feelings for her. But she's a woman! The physical relationship was a shock! But I suppose you're right, it was an emotional affair all along. I would rather have been with her than my husband no matter what the situation... She is my first thought when I wake up and my last thought before I sleep. She is in my dreams. I wonder every second if she's ok. She was in therapy before we even met, that had nothing to do with me. The thoughts I have for her are the same thoughts and feelings I had when I thought I was in love with my husband. But she's a woman! She's the only close friend I've ever had since I've been married, that wasn't my spouse. Can married people just not be close to anyone else ever? I knew the instant I met her that we had a connection I've never had with anyone else. I can't even really explain it, like I've known her all my life. I'm a grown woman, I'm not stupid. I know the difference between right and wrong. It's killing me that I may have ruined the best friendship I've ever had or ever will have. And it's confusing to me that I feel closer to her than I've ever felt to my husband, who is supposed to be one with me.

This is a good description of what I'd call infatuation or whatever the word is for the first stage of a romantic relationship.  There are two sure things about it. 1. It is the greatest feeling in the world that makes us feel like we are walking on air whenever we are with that person (which is have makes us want to be around them and constantly think about being around them).  2. It is temporary and will slowly come to an end. 

A lot of marriages have come to end because one (or both) disillusioned and frustrated spouse found a sympathetic person that they started becoming infatuated with.  That person provided such a relief from a mundane and frustrating marriage that they seemed like the soulmate that their first spouse should have been.  The sad thing is that years later, they find that they are back into the same place.  One experienced marriage counselor wrote that one of the saddest things that he consistently runs across is people who come to him for help with their 2nd or 3rd marriage and realize that their first marriage could have been saved if only they had worked at it.  (I'm not referring to situations of abuse, addictions, etc., but those all too common feeling bored and unfulfilled and "we don't love each other anymore" situations).

I've now been married for over 30 years (with 3 adult daughters, 2 sons-in-law, and 1 granddaughter, and 2 more grandkids on the way).  The way I feel about my wife now is much different than when we got married.  There was originally a lot more passion, intense romantic feelings, and infatuation (as using the word in my first paragraph).  Over time, that just slowly disappeared into the bland world of daily living.  There were times my wife caused me frustration and pain and vice versa.  No betrayals of any sort, just what happens when two people live in the same house (I suppose at times not too dissimilar to a couple porcupines in a den trying to get comfortable).   The reality is that over time the two of us changed.  Neither of us is the same person that the other married.  Our relationship had to change and adapt over time.  My sense is that every marriage needs to be an organic living thing that adapts and changes over the years and decades to remain strong.  We all change over time and our relationships need to adapt to that change.  There was a time about decade ago that I started wondering if being married was even worth it.  I didn't feel like celebrating our 25th anniversary (and was relieved when bad weather forced us to cancel the celebration).   About that time, I watched a Christian acquaintance of our family leave his wife, he left her a note and left the state with a much younger woman, and then a week later returned home after being shocked at what he had done.  This surprised all of us who knew him.  It was also a wake up call to me that thinking about giving up on marriage was basically a spiritual attack on me and my wife.  At this point, I cannot imagine life without my wife.  I am comfortable and secure around her.  We know each other well and have mostly adapted to each others' quirks and annoying habits.  There are some things that neither of us will ever do or be for the other; but that's okay.  We have a lot together that cannot be replaced by someone else.

Here are some resources we found to be among the best for improving a marriage relationship.  The Shanti Feldhahn books "For Women Only" and "For Men Only" are insightful.  She's a solid researcher who presents good insights into common differences between men and women.  The book "His Needs, Her Needs" by Willard Harley was also helpful.  He's an experienced marriage counselor who talks about the different expectations most men and women have in marriage.   The reality is that most husbands and wives lovingly try to treat the other just the same way they want to be treated;  and then are shocked to find that is not what the other one wants.  That inconsiderate spouse that annoys us so much often treats us how they want to be treated.   After awhile, we get get frustrated that they don't seem to understand us no matter what we say or try to do.   Finally, there is a DVD series from Mark Gungor called "Laugh Your Way to a Better Marriage".  We went to one of his weekend seminars, learned a lot, and went home with our side literally aching from having been laughing so hard the entire time.   It was one of the most worthwhile seminars that we ever attended.  We picked up the DVDs at the seminar and have loaned them to various couples.  All of them said they were worthwhile watching together.

Marriage is not something that just happens;  it is something that needs to be nurtured and worked at.  Few couples enter marriage with the tools and skills to make it work.  They need advice and input from experienced couples that have weathered the storms of life.  Sadly, western society seems to have lost a lot of the continuity of the support structures that help couples make it through the rough years of a marriage to go onto a longterm satisfying relationship.  Somewhere along the line, my wife and I changed from that young energetic couple that couldn't keep their hands off of each other to a middle-aged couple that have now become such a fixture in each others' life that we wouldn't know what to do without the other.

 

[MorningGlory]

20 hours ago, KAC said:

I don't know. It's all very confusing. I've been a Christian my whole life and never ever considered going down this road. How could it just come from out of the blue? You guys really think something like this could indicate that I was never a Christian to begin with? That my whole life is a lie?! I can't talk about this with anyone I know. I have no where to turn but prayer, which is probably for the best. I am ashamed. That I ever let something like this happen to start with, that I was so wrapped up in a moment that I lost myself, that I have potentially ruined my Christian witness. It was obviously wrong, but my love for her is not about that. That was a mistake. The Bible lists a whole bunch of things that will prevent someone from entering the kingdom. Doesn't it mean if you continue in those wrong things? I understand why everyone says breaking off the friendship altogether is the only option. I just don't have friends outside my family normally and I hate that one mistake, even though huge, should destroy a friendship forever. I know it's a big deal though, I can never get that day out of my mind.

It doesn't mean you were never a Christian or that your witness is ruined.  It means you are a mortal being who succumbed to temptation just as we all have at some point.  Repent of this and renew your commitment to God.  But, as everyone has told you, you should put distance between you and this woman.  Why keep a stumbling block directly in your path?

[KAC]

On 2/24/2018 at 9:19 AM, GandalfTheWise said:

 

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by KAC

[GandalfTheWise]

1 hour ago, KAC said:

You put a lot of time and thought into your responses, thank you. Sadly my marriage is a situation of abuse. Years of verbal and emotional abuse that I have never been able to get help with. But my husband is a former pastor and completely charming and persuasive to anyone I try to enlist to help me. He is a very skilled manipulator. All of my "Christian" counselors and therapists have told me there are no grounds for divorce. He's never hit me, he never cheated on me, we can help you fix this, he loves you, you share a child with him.... She was the first person that seemed to care that this marriage is hurting me. She wanted me to stand up for myself and leave, grounds or not. I've been taught for so long that divorce is wrong that I can't bring myself to do it. Lol, ironically I guess now there technically are grounds since I'm unfaithful but I can't even tell him. I'm afraid he would actually kill me. She, not my pastor, not my Christian counselor, she cared about my pain and my fear of him. She held my hand while I cried and explained my troubles. She did what a best friend should do, I just don't know how we came off the tracks. I know everyone thinks she's a stumbling block, but aside from my children, she's the only person who I've ever known that gets me. I know that sounds cliche. But when I'm around her she knows what I'm thinking before I say it. I have wanted a sister all my life and at the beginning of our relationship, that's how I thought of her. I've never had any physical attraction or romantic feelings toward a woman before, I very much like men. And it was the same for her, it's not like she was a closet lesbian or something and tried to trick me. Neither of us has ever been here before and are both very shocked about where we've ended up. I've read all the marriage books you mentioned. I've lost track of how many marriage seminars I've been to. I'm actually in counseling with our pastor and my husband now. No matter what I say or describe to them, they say I should stay with my husband, if we would just pray together, read the Bible together. We do all of that and things are ok for a while. But the abuse is like a cycle and I've been around it so many times, I know what's coming. She's the only person that's ever stood up for me. I know it sounds like I'm making excuses. But she was my friend when I needed a friend so badly. I'm completely devastated that I'm alone again. I can't even write this without crying. I miss her as if she has died. I loved a man this way a long time ago. I felt for him exactly how I had always imagined I should feel toward someone I would marry. But he was not a Christian and I had always been taught not to be unequally yoked, so I did not marry him. I haven't seen him in 24 years and I have never gotten over him. So I'm not sure this time out with her will help me in this situation either. I pray and cry out to God to forgive me, give me wisdom and help me know what to do, and yet I feel completely lost, in the dark, and alone. 

I'm happy to put in some time writing to you.  I think the main reason God has me on sites like this is to be a helpful encouraging voice to those who need it and to try to give practical advice and input.  I had the sense there might be something deeper going on.   I'm saddened to hear it is an abusive situation and not just a learning to get along one.     The reality is that abuse can harm us.  The stress and other things involved can change body chemistry and start affecting us in physical ways.  Sleep issues, eating issues,  health issues, substance abuse issues, addictions, emotional issues, and other such things can arise when we are under stress for a long time.  These can affect many things in our lives including how we relate to other people.  Sometimes we get pushed beyond our limits to hold things together on our own and we snap.

If the only counsel you've been getting is pray together and read the Bible together and any concerns about verbal or emotional abuse are being ignored, I'd have to ask if you are limiting yourself to talking to people in one church, denomination, or outlook.  There are some circles of Christians that have a "save the marriage at all costs" mentality whose marriage counseling experience consists primarily with helping couples with "learning to get along" type of problems that are common to most marriages.   In those situations, it's relatively easy to get things back on track if both partners are willing to work on it.  However, when the sin of abuse (and yes it is a sin even if it's not laid out in various lists that people compile from the Bible) is ignored by the church, it is failing its members and those who are being abused.

Situations where abuse, addiction, and other such things are involved are much harder and frankly require someone who with a good amount of experience dealing with those types of situations.  An experienced person would have a good sense of when a separation or other more extreme measures are called for to deal with abuse.   A good experienced Christian counselor would work to save the marriage and fix things; but they will also have the experience to be realistic about what might need to be done to eliminate abuse from the marriage.   Have you had the opportunity to talk with a Christian counselor or an  experienced pastor who has extensive experience with cases where abuse is occurring?  I know that there are some in my area and our church (definitely on the conservative side with regard to marriage and divorce) treats abuse seriously.  Our pastoral staff is sensitive to the difference between "this couple needs to be taught about how to make marriage work" versus "there are serious issues here, we need to bring in experienced people here".

A few other things I note.  One is that we all need to have a circle of friends beyond one or two people in our lives.  Are there any women's prayer groups, bible studies, small groups, or anything similar that you could start making some more connections?  I know our church has a number of small groups including a few women-only groups for those who've been abused in various ways.  The more people you can have around you in person to support you, the better.

A second thing I'll share here fits the category of "I think God might be wanting me to share this, but I'm not sure".  If this strikes a chord and resonates with you, cool.  If not, please ignore it.   Many Christians live their life without knowing who God made them to be.  They become a mixture of expectations of family, friends, church, colleagues at work, society, and what they are convinced God wants them to do.  God has created us each as a unique treasure and work of art to reflect His glory in way that only we can.    There's a world and enemy that hates God that wants to destroy, mar, and corrupt His intended purpose for each of us.  This is not simply a temptation to sin or become addicted to things or to fall away, but rather a deeper attack that tries to prevent us from becoming the unique individual God intends for us to be.  This is something deeper than our education, job, ministry, family, decisions in life, and biographical information.  Often the positive influences in our life want us to aspire to those things.  This is something deeper than what demographic or social groups we belong to.  Often the negative influences in our life want us to define ourselves by those things.   It goes to the core person who God intended for each of to become.  This is not something we can easily define with labels that we ourselves or others put on us.  Until we learn to see ourselves through God's eyes as the person He wants us to become, we are much more susceptible to being negative influenced by those around us and drawn into unhealthy things.  We each need to learn to walk with God in the unique way He created us to.   As an analogy, our life is like a garden.  It contains both those seeds that God planted for us to become and those seeds planted by an enemy that hates God and hates us.  We need to make sure that we are tending and watering those seeds that God planted or we can spend our lives watching useless weeds grow.  I've sadly seen many people throw themselves into carefully tending weeds.  No matter how fast they grow or how luxuriant they appear, the weeds are still weeds.  We need to carefully learn which seeds are those God has planted in our life and tend those.  The enemy loves to steer us toward the weeds to avoid having the good seed grow.  I've seen people take on various demographic or social identities because it made them feel belong; and then lose their real identity.  I've seen Christians throw themselves into ministry; and not know who God created them to be.  I've seen people throw themselves into various relationships, causes, dreams, and goals; and then find they are defining themselves by that.   Our identity needs to be in being that unique treasure and work of art that He is creating in us.

 

 

 

 

[KAC]

On 2/24/2018 at 1:48 AM, Sister said:

 

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by KAC

[Sister]

Hi KAC

She was sent to do a job (unknowingly), used to caused your fall, then gone.  Job done.  Now your yearning for her thinking something special is missing?  You shared your most inner feelings with her about your husband.  She enabled you to open up your wounds, and uncover your husbands nakedness (his faults), and used that to get inside.  She was sent to cause division between you and your husband, or if not, to make it escalate in order for you to need her.  Look we have all made mistakes, I am not judging you.  I know how the devil works, and how he uses people, he tricked me many times and it took a while to wake up.  He always gets his will done through our weaknesses, our hurt, so that we can justify something bad we've done with tons of excuses.   I just know how he works.  Maybe God is keeping her away from you now, that's also possible.  Give you time to reflect.  I don't know anything about your walk in the Lord before this, whether it was strong, weak or what, but just beware, yoking with unbelievers, even if they listen to us when we speak about the scriptures, and we think they accept it, does not mean that they accept Christ.  You know what I mean, they are showing us that they accept us, but many times, the closer we yoke to them, the more damage is done at the end.  Any friend who leads us into sin, does not truly care for our soul. That's the bottom line.  A Christian woman would of encouraged you to make amends with your husband and prayed for you and done all she could to help heal your relationship with your husband.  She would of known that God does not take marriage lightly.

I don't think any of us answering you on this issue is going to encourage you to get back close to this girl, no matter how much you want to hear it.  Forgive her and move on, but most importantly, let it be a lesson learn't.  That's just my advise, we can't stop you from acting on what's in your heart, but you can weigh out all the advise and I hope you choose the right way.  Just know that you are loved and we all feel protective of you. 

I gave you those scriptures so that you can think about it.  Better to cut her off, and enter the kingdom without you joined to her, than to not enter at all.  It's a spiritual battle, and we have to let go of some things completely no matter how much it hurts.  You will heal.  Go to Christ, he's the real friend, let him hold your hand, he's the best counsellor you will ever find.  Go to the Word of God.

[KAC]

On 2/25/2018 at 3:34 PM, Sister said:

 

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by KAC

[Guest Butero]

On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 6:09 PM, KAC said:

I don't know. It's all very confusing. I've been a Christian my whole life and never ever considered going down this road. How could it just come from out of the blue? You guys really think something like this could indicate that I was never a Christian to begin with? That my whole life is a lie?! I can't talk about this with anyone I know. I have no where to turn but prayer, which is probably for the best. I am ashamed. That I ever let something like this happen to start with, that I was so wrapped up in a moment that I lost myself, that I have potentially ruined my Christian witness. It was obviously wrong, but my love for her is not about that. That was a mistake. The Bible lists a whole bunch of things that will prevent someone from entering the kingdom. Doesn't it mean if you continue in those wrong things? I understand why everyone says breaking off the friendship altogether is the only option. I just don't have friends outside my family normally and I hate that one mistake, even though huge, should destroy a friendship forever. I know it's a big deal though, I can never get that day out of my mind.

Lets deal with what I can see is a bigger problem than the sin, and that is your questioning whether or not you were or are saved.  Make sure your heart is right with God now.  You can't undo the sin.  Ask God to forgive you of your sins, and according to 1 John, he is faithful and just to forgive you and cleanse you of all unrighteousness.  Then ask Jesus to be your Lord and Savior and promise to do your best to live for him from this day forward.  If you feel you were saved, do this as a re-dedication, and if you never said a sinner's prayer, do it for the first time.  Make sure of your salvation.  This is serious, but it is not an unpardonable sin.  God will forgive you if you mean it.  

Sin does have consequences, and they can be serious.  Losing a friend is the result of this transgression, but you don't have to lose your soul.  It is not just you that you must think about, but also the woman you sinned with.  This has to be messing with her head too, and it won't be good for her hanging around with you.  I wish I could tell you what you want to hear, but it seems like everyone responding feels the same way, that this relationship won't work anymore.  Get right with God, and make new friends, and next time when you are tempted in some way to do something wrong, remember your mistake here.  

[Guest Butero]

On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 8:49 PM, KAC said:

Maybe that's the hardest part. I'm having a hard time forgiving her because even though I knew it was wrong and was an active participant, she initiated the action to begin with and now she's the one that's cut me off. I think I blame her for ruining the friendship even though I participated. I don't make friends easily or open up to people generally so I feel a huge loss through all of this. My marriage was bad before her, she did encourage me to work hard to make things right with my husband before she found out about some extensive abuse, that's when she said I should try to get away. I believe she is and was concerned for my safety. I believe she is just as convicted as me if not more and is now concerned with her own marriage, which is the proper thing for her to be concerned with. I'm hurt and angry on so many different levels. I understand forgiveness but I guess it will just take time. You're right, I do want to get back to being close with her. I'm sure I knew, even if unconsciously, that no one here would suggest that. Even her therapist, who is not Christian, advised her that she cannot be friends with someone she cheated on her husband with, man or woman makes no difference. I've often thought of the scriptures you quoted before I read them from you. I know what the right thing to do is, I just don't want to do it. Maybe it is God that removed her from me because He knew I was not strong enough to fix it for myself. I've experienced loss of people close to me through death, this feels worse. I know she's still here and out of my reach. You say move on and get over her. How? I try to fill my mind with my own family, my kids, reading the  Word, prayer. But when there is quiet she's who my mind returns to. She is who I dream about when I'm asleep. How do I fix that?

You aren't describing a best friend.  You are describing someone you are in love with.  I have never had feelings like that about another man.  You dream about her when you are asleep?  She has become an obsession to you.  You have to break this off completely.  This relationship will destroy both of your marriages if it continues.