Is the Pope infallible..?

[Assisi]

2 Tim. 1:6 - Paul again reminds Timothy the unique gift of God that he received through the laying on of hands.

No mention of apostilic authority

2 Tim. 4:1-6 - at end of Paul's life, Paul charges Timothy with the office of his ministry . We must trace true apostolic lineage back to a Catholic bishop.

No mention of the word office or bishop. Only telling Timothy to carry out his ministry. You added bishop and office. Misquote

2 Tim. 2:2 - this verse shows God's intention is to transfer authority to successors (here, Paul to Timothy to 3rd to 4th generation). It goes beyond the death of the apostles.

Model for discipleship we should all follow. No mention of office or apostilic authority

Titus 1:5; Luke 10:1 - the elders of the Church are appointed and hold authority. God has His children participate in Christ's work

No argument here. No mention of apostilic authority though.

1 John 4:6 - whoever knows God listens to us (the bishops and the successors to the apostles). This is the way we discern truth and error (not just by reading the Bible and interpreting it for ourselves)

Does not say Bishops etc. You added that

I could continue if you want, but as you can see none of your examples prove your point. In several you added words to the verse and some you just plain misquoted. If you want me to address the remaining let me know. The quesion still stands

Please note: The last four posts were originally one long post. I had to break them up to get the quotes to work all of the way. There is eveidently a limiter

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Papacy is based on Scripture. And history is crystal clear that Bishop of Rome exercised primacy in the Catholic Church from the first century onward.

The Gospel of St. Matthew 16:18-19 (in conjunction with the Prophecy of Isaiah 22:20-22), the Gospel of St. John 21:15-17 (in combination with the 2nd Book of Samuel 5:2 and the Prophecy of Ezekiel 34:23), and the Gospel of St. Luke 22:31-32, among many, many other quotations from the Bible prove that Jesus founded the Catholic Church and made St. Peter the first Pope.

An example of how the primacy of the Bishop of Rome was exercised in the first few centuries after Jesus:

Pope Clement (88-97) wrote to the Church in Corinth in the year 96 to tell them to make changes in their attitudes and practices. The Early Church On-Line Encyclopedia (Ecole) Initiative, a cooperative effort on the part of Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant scholars across the Internet to establish links of early Church history, says "This letter is important because it indicates that the author was acting has the head of the Christian Church and that it was centered in Rome."

Protestant Historical Scholar Schoff The first duty of the historian, which comprehends all others, is fidelity and justice. He must reproduce the history itself, making it live again in his representation. His highest and only aim should be, like a witness, to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and, like a judge, to do full justice to every person and event which comes under his review.

------Schaff -- HISTORY of the CHRISTIAN CHURCH

CHAPTER IV:

ORGANIZATION AND DISCIPLINE OF THE CHURCH

The ministerial office was instituted by the Lord before his ascension, and solemnly inaugurated on the first Christian Pentecost by the outpouring of the Holy Ghost, to be the regular organ of the kingly power of Christ on earth in founding, maintaining, and extending the church. It appears in the New Testament under different names, descriptive of its various functions:

[EricH]

2 Tim. 1:6 - Paul again reminds Timothy the unique gift of God that he received through the laying on of hands.

No mention of apostilic authority

2 Tim. 4:1-6 - at end of Paul's life, Paul charges Timothy with the office of his ministry . We must trace true apostolic lineage back to a Catholic bishop.

No mention of the word office or bishop. Only telling Timothy to carry out his ministry. You added bishop and office. Misquote

2 Tim. 2:2 - this verse shows God's intention is to transfer authority to successors (here, Paul to Timothy to 3rd to 4th generation). It goes beyond the death of the apostles.

Model for discipleship we should all follow. No mention of office or apostilic authority

Titus 1:5; Luke 10:1 - the elders of the Church are appointed and hold authority. God has His children participate in Christ's work

No argument here. No mention of apostilic authority though.

1 John 4:6 - whoever knows God listens to us (the bishops and the successors to the apostles). This is the way we discern truth and error (not just by reading the Bible and interpreting it for ourselves)

Does not say Bishops etc. You added that

I could continue if you want, but as you can see none of your examples prove your point. In several you added words to the verse and some you just plain misquoted. If you want me to address the remaining let me know. The quesion still stands

Please note: The last four posts were originally one long post. I had to break them up to get the quotes to work all of the way. There is eveidently a limiter

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Papacy is based on Scripture. And history is crystal clear that Bishop of Rome exercised primacy in the Catholic Church from the first century onward.

The Gospel of St. Matthew 16:18-19 (in conjunction with the Prophecy of Isaiah 22:20-22), the Gospel of St. John 21:15-17 (in combination with the 2nd Book of Samuel 5:2 and the Prophecy of Ezekiel 34:23), and the Gospel of St. Luke 22:31-32, among many, many other quotations from the Bible prove that Jesus founded the Catholic Church and made St. Peter the first Pope.

An example of how the primacy of the Bishop of Rome was exercised in the first few centuries after Jesus:

Pope Clement (88-97) wrote to the Church in Corinth in the year 96 to tell them to make changes in their attitudes and practices. The Early Church On-Line Encyclopedia (Ecole) Initiative, a cooperative effort on the part of Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant scholars across the Internet to establish links of early Church history, says "This letter is important because it indicates that the author was acting has the head of the Christian Church and that it was centered in Rome."

Protestant Historical Scholar Schoff The first duty of the historian, which comprehends all others, is fidelity and justice. He must reproduce the history itself, making it live again in his representation. His highest and only aim should be, like a witness, to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and, like a judge, to do full justice to every person and event which comes under his review.

------Schaff -- HISTORY of the CHRISTIAN CHURCH

CHAPTER IV:

ORGANIZATION AND DISCIPLINE OF THE CHURCH

The ministerial office was instituted by the Lord before his ascension, and solemnly inaugurated on the first Christian Pentecost by the outpouring of the Holy Ghost, to be the regular organ of the kingly power of Christ on earth in founding, maintaining, and extending the church. It appears in the New Testament under different names, descriptive of its various functions:

[Assisi]

2 Tim. 1:6 - Paul again reminds Timothy the unique gift of God that he received through the laying on of hands.

No mention of apostilic authority

2 Tim. 4:1-6 - at end of Paul's life, Paul charges Timothy with the office of his ministry . We must trace true apostolic lineage back to a Catholic bishop.

No mention of the word office or bishop. Only telling Timothy to carry out his ministry. You added bishop and office. Misquote

2 Tim. 2:2 - this verse shows God's intention is to transfer authority to successors (here, Paul to Timothy to 3rd to 4th generation). It goes beyond the death of the apostles.

Model for discipleship we should all follow. No mention of office or apostilic authority

Titus 1:5; Luke 10:1 - the elders of the Church are appointed and hold authority. God has His children participate in Christ's work

No argument here. No mention of apostilic authority though.

1 John 4:6 - whoever knows God listens to us (the bishops and the successors to the apostles). This is the way we discern truth and error (not just by reading the Bible and interpreting it for ourselves)

Does not say Bishops etc. You added that

I could continue if you want, but as you can see none of your examples prove your point. In several you added words to the verse and some you just plain misquoted. If you want me to address the remaining let me know. The quesion still stands

Please note: The last four posts were originally one long post. I had to break them up to get the quotes to work all of the way. There is eveidently a limiter

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Papacy is based on Scripture. And history is crystal clear that Bishop of Rome exercised primacy in the Catholic Church from the first century onward.

The Gospel of St. Matthew 16:18-19 (in conjunction with the Prophecy of Isaiah 22:20-22), the Gospel of St. John 21:15-17 (in combination with the 2nd Book of Samuel 5:2 and the Prophecy of Ezekiel 34:23), and the Gospel of St. Luke 22:31-32, among many, many other quotations from the Bible prove that Jesus founded the Catholic Church and made St. Peter the first Pope.

An example of how the primacy of the Bishop of Rome was exercised in the first few centuries after Jesus:

Pope Clement (88-97) wrote to the Church in Corinth in the year 96 to tell them to make changes in their attitudes and practices. The Early Church On-Line Encyclopedia (Ecole) Initiative, a cooperative effort on the part of Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant scholars across the Internet to establish links of early Church history, says "This letter is important because it indicates that the author was acting has the head of the Christian Church and that it was centered in Rome."

Protestant Historical Scholar Schoff The first duty of the historian, which comprehends all others, is fidelity and justice. He must reproduce the history itself, making it live again in his representation. His highest and only aim should be, like a witness, to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and, like a judge, to do full justice to every person and event which comes under his review.

------Schaff -- HISTORY of the CHRISTIAN CHURCH

CHAPTER IV:

ORGANIZATION AND DISCIPLINE OF THE CHURCH

The ministerial office was instituted by the Lord before his ascension, and solemnly inaugurated on the first Christian Pentecost by the outpouring of the Holy Ghost, to be the regular organ of the kingly power of Christ on earth in founding, maintaining, and extending the church. It appears in the New Testament under different names, descriptive of its various functions:

[EricH]

2 Tim. 1:6 - Paul again reminds Timothy the unique gift of God that he received through the laying on of hands.

No mention of apostilic authority

2 Tim. 4:1-6 - at end of Paul's life, Paul charges Timothy with the office of his ministry . We must trace true apostolic lineage back to a Catholic bishop.

No mention of the word office or bishop. Only telling Timothy to carry out his ministry. You added bishop and office. Misquote

2 Tim. 2:2 - this verse shows God's intention is to transfer authority to successors (here, Paul to Timothy to 3rd to 4th generation). It goes beyond the death of the apostles.

Model for discipleship we should all follow. No mention of office or apostilic authority

Titus 1:5; Luke 10:1 - the elders of the Church are appointed and hold authority. God has His children participate in Christ's work

No argument here. No mention of apostilic authority though.

1 John 4:6 - whoever knows God listens to us (the bishops and the successors to the apostles). This is the way we discern truth and error (not just by reading the Bible and interpreting it for ourselves)

Does not say Bishops etc. You added that

I could continue if you want, but as you can see none of your examples prove your point. In several you added words to the verse and some you just plain misquoted. If you want me to address the remaining let me know. The quesion still stands

Please note: The last four posts were originally one long post. I had to break them up to get the quotes to work all of the way. There is eveidently a limiter

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Papacy is based on Scripture. And history is crystal clear that Bishop of Rome exercised primacy in the Catholic Church from the first century onward.

The Gospel of St. Matthew 16:18-19 (in conjunction with the Prophecy of Isaiah 22:20-22), the Gospel of St. John 21:15-17 (in combination with the 2nd Book of Samuel 5:2 and the Prophecy of Ezekiel 34:23), and the Gospel of St. Luke 22:31-32, among many, many other quotations from the Bible prove that Jesus founded the Catholic Church and made St. Peter the first Pope.

An example of how the primacy of the Bishop of Rome was exercised in the first few centuries after Jesus:

Pope Clement (88-97) wrote to the Church in Corinth in the year 96 to tell them to make changes in their attitudes and practices. The Early Church On-Line Encyclopedia (Ecole) Initiative, a cooperative effort on the part of Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant scholars across the Internet to establish links of early Church history, says "This letter is important because it indicates that the author was acting has the head of the Christian Church and that it was centered in Rome."

Protestant Historical Scholar Schoff The first duty of the historian, which comprehends all others, is fidelity and justice. He must reproduce the history itself, making it live again in his representation. His highest and only aim should be, like a witness, to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and, like a judge, to do full justice to every person and event which comes under his review.

------Schaff -- HISTORY of the CHRISTIAN CHURCH

CHAPTER IV:

ORGANIZATION AND DISCIPLINE OF THE CHURCH

The ministerial office was instituted by the Lord before his ascension, and solemnly inaugurated on the first Christian Pentecost by the outpouring of the Holy Ghost, to be the regular organ of the kingly power of Christ on earth in founding, maintaining, and extending the church. It appears in the New Testament under different names, descriptive of its various functions:

[Pax]

Eric,

I was reviewing this thread and saw that you asked me about a passage three times. Please ask me again and I will answer to the best of my ability. I not sure what passage it was. These boards can get confusing, especially when one person post several quesions and then several other people add more information. I do have one specific question for you. How were you taught at seminary what the meaning of Mathew 16: 18-19 was?? You had stated that you interpret differently than I.

Horizoneast: You keep saying the same thing over and over......we all know that some Popes were horrible men, and Luther lived in a time when there were some of the worst Popes. Leadershiped needed reform, BUT NOT CHURCH DOCTRINE. That is where Luther and all the Protestant reformers went wrong. They took it upon themselves to change Christ's Church. And even through all the garbage of bad Popes that you like to spew out, CHURCH DOCTRINE STILL HASN'T CHANGED FOR 2,0000 YEARS. I would say this is a miracle wouldn't you.

Edited June 4, 2005 by Pax

[Assisi]

Pax,

PAX,

And even through all the garbage of bad Popes that you like to spew out, CHURCH DOCTRINE STILL HASN'T CHANGED FOR 2,0000 YEARS.

Are you saying that the information I have presented regarding the men you term as

[stevehut]

No sinful pope has ever taught error or tried to change the rules

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No mistakes. Ever. Everything true and righteous and never faltering. Ya gotta be kidding.

I don't think Moses or David or Peter ever made that claim.

[Assisi]

No sinful pope has ever taught error or tried to change the rules

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No mistakes. Ever. Everything true and righteous and never faltering. Ya gotta be kidding.

I don't think Moses or David or Peter ever made that claim.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm talking about Faith and morals here and i will show you an example here.

Christians have always condemned contraceptive sex. Both forms mentioned in the Bible, coitus interruptus and sterilization, are condemned without exception (Gen. 38:9

[stevehut]

I'm talking about Faith and morals here and i will show you an example here. 

Christians have always condemned contraceptive sex.

I repeat.

No mistakes? Ever? Everything true and righteous and never faltering?

Ya gotta be kidding.

I don't think Moses or David or Peter ever made that claim.

Apparently, the Pope is greater than Moses or David or Peter.

[Pax]

Steve,

Let me ask you a two simple questions. Is God perfect?

Read Mathew 16:18-19. Do you agree that God was going to leave us with ONE Church when you died on the cross and was assummed into heaven? If you don't believe this, than what does Mathew 16:18-19 mean?