Is the Pope infallible..?

[stevehut]

1- Is God perfect?

2- you agree that God was going to leave us with ONE Church when you died on the cross and was assummed into heaven? 

3- If you don't believe this, than what does Mathew 16:18-19 mean?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1- Of course. *duh*

2- Yup.

3- Interesting that you end the quote at verse 19. Try v. 23.

[Pax]

Good Steve we are getting somewhere here.

You and I both agree that God is absolutly devine and perfect in all things he is and does.

You and I also agree that God said he will leave ONE Church so that we have some direction after he is gone.

So with knowing all of that, do you think God's ONE Church he left us would not be perfect? Remember God is perfect in everything he does. Also remember I am not talking about the people who make up the Church, but the Doctrine of God's ONE Church. That as simple as I can put it.

I would also agree that Mathew 16:23 is also good. God is the leader of the Church. The holy Spirit works through the Church, remember the Trinity, (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one). That is why we call the Pope the Vicar of Christ on earth. Jesus is gone to heaven, so there has to be a head on earth that the holy spirit can work through to direct the ONE Church.(Mathew 16:19 "Christ told Peter he would give him the keys to the kingdom in heaven) But the holy spirit works through all of us if we are open to it, Catholic, Protestant, or whoever. But the Pope holds a special position and receives much graces. Can the Pope sin, yes. Was Peter a sinner, heck yes. Didn't he deny Christ three times.

[Assisi]

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Assisi,

Neither scripture nor history is on your side my friend. The English word

[stevehut]

1- So with knowing all of that, do you think God's ONE Church he left us would not be perfect?

[Pax]

Steve,

The Chruch Doctrine is without error not the people. The way I invisioned this was like a stool with three legs. One leg is the Bible, one leg tradition, and one leg is the Magisteriuim, (which includes the Pope). A stool with three legs is stable. Try having a stool with one leg, not very stable. That is what you have when you only have the Bible.

[Pax]

Horizoneast: Yes, a stool like the one purposed would crash to the ground. But has the Catholic church crashed to the ground, No. The Church is the largest denomination in the world (1.2 Billion) and the numbers are only growing. If the Catholic Church was all corrupt and horrible as you like to always point out, do you think the Holy Spirit would let this church flourish? People such as myself are attracted to the Church, because it doesn't ever change. The Anglican Church of the United States last summer decided to vote and allow a openly homesexual Bishop (Gene Robinson) to become the bishop of Conneticut. What did the Anglicans do, they split in half. Half decided to be lead by an openly homesexual who endorses abortion, which Mr. Robinson does, the other half decided to try and form there own Anglican Church. Many others also joined the Catholic Church. I don't ever have to worry about my church, the Catholic Church voting on whether or not to have an openly homosexual bishops. The Catholic Church is always going to be the Church to stand up against moral wrongs. We are never going to endorse, homosexuality, we are never going to endorse abortion, we are never going to endorse embryonic stem cell research. Can you say this about your Church? No, your members could all get together and vote on the role of homosexual clergy in your Church. If the majority votes for this, than you are part of a church that endorses homosexuality. Kind of an unsetteling feeling isn't it. I don't ever have to worry about this, as does any other Catholic.

[Pax]

Once agian Horizoneast you can't seem to get it. Yes, we had the Priest Scandels that the media loved to play up to the hilt....I especially liked it when they would say things like, is this the end of the Catholic Church. Many bad priest were put on trial and convicted. In fact Father Gagen was put in prison in Boston and the security guards allowd another inmate to kill him. I willl say this again for the thousandth time. The Catholic Church is made up of sinners, we have some bad preist who have done horrible things. Just like some Baptist ministers and Lutheran Minister have done horrible things. But the moral Doctrine of the Catholic Church will never change. Anytime we talk you like to divert attention towards how bad a certain Pope was or the Priest Scandel, but you still have no answer to this one statement.....The faith and moral doctrine of the Chruch hasn't changed for 2,000 years. People are looking for conservative, orthodox teachings, especially in the liberal anything goes times that we are in now. The Catholic Church is that conservative orthodox oasis and alway will be. On the next post, let see if you can say one positive thing about the Catholic Church.

[stevehut]

1- The Church is the largest denomination in the world (1.2 Billion)

2- and the numbers are only growing.

[Assisi]

Assisi

Edited June 7, 2005 by Assisi

[stevehut]

Last time I checked, Schaff was a historian. Not an apologist.

His job is to report events, not to take sides.

Even a raging heretic like myself, would never be so bold as to say everything the Catholics do or say is sinful and blasphemous.