Is the Pope infallible..?

[EricH]

2 Tim. 1:6 - Paul again reminds Timothy the unique gift of God that he received through the laying on of hands.

No mention of apostilic authority

2 Tim. 4:1-6 - at end of Paul's life, Paul charges Timothy with the office of his ministry . We must trace true apostolic lineage back to a Catholic bishop.

No mention of the word office or bishop. Only telling Timothy to carry out his ministry. You added bishop and office. Misquote

2 Tim. 2:2 - this verse shows God's intention is to transfer authority to successors (here, Paul to Timothy to 3rd to 4th generation). It goes beyond the death of the apostles.

Model for discipleship we should all follow. No mention of office or apostilic authority

Titus 1:5; Luke 10:1 - the elders of the Church are appointed and hold authority. God has His children participate in Christ's work

No argument here. No mention of apostilic authority though.

1 John 4:6 - whoever knows God listens to us (the bishops and the successors to the apostles). This is the way we discern truth and error (not just by reading the Bible and interpreting it for ourselves)

Does not say Bishops etc. You added that

I could continue if you want, but as you can see none of your examples prove your point. In several you added words to the verse and some you just plain misquoted. If you want me to address the remaining let me know. The quesion still stands

Please note: The last four posts were originally one long post. I had to break them up to get the quotes to work all of the way. There is eveidently a limiter

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The Papacy is based on Scripture. And history is crystal clear that Bishop of Rome exercised primacy in the Catholic Church from the first century onward.

The Gospel of St. Matthew 16:18-19 (in conjunction with the Prophecy of Isaiah 22:20-22), the Gospel of St. John 21:15-17 (in combination with the 2nd Book of Samuel 5:2 and the Prophecy of Ezekiel 34:23), and the Gospel of St. Luke 22:31-32, among many, many other quotations from the Bible prove that Jesus founded the Catholic Church and made St. Peter the first Pope.

An example of how the primacy of the Bishop of Rome was exercised in the first few centuries after Jesus:

Pope Clement (88-97) wrote to the Church in Corinth in the year 96 to tell them to make changes in their attitudes and practices. The Early Church On-Line Encyclopedia (Ecole) Initiative, a cooperative effort on the part of Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant scholars across the Internet to establish links of early Church history, says "This letter is important because it indicates that the author was acting has the head of the Christian Church and that it was centered in Rome."

Protestant Historical Scholar Schoff The first duty of the historian, which comprehends all others, is fidelity and justice. He must reproduce the history itself, making it live again in his representation. His highest and only aim should be, like a witness, to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and, like a judge, to do full justice to every person and event which comes under his review.

------Schaff -- HISTORY of the CHRISTIAN CHURCH

CHAPTER IV:

ORGANIZATION AND DISCIPLINE OF THE CHURCH

The ministerial office was instituted by the Lord before his ascension, and solemnly inaugurated on the first Christian Pentecost by the outpouring of the Holy Ghost, to be the regular organ of the kingly power of Christ on earth in founding, maintaining, and extending the church. It appears in the New Testament under different names, descriptive of its various functions:

[stevehut]

Titus 1:5; Luke 10:1 - the elders of the Church are appointed and hold authority. God has His children participate in Christ's work

No argument here. No mention of apostilic authority though.

Good point here, Eric.

Now let's take a look at the full context of Titus 1:5, shall we?

The reason I left you in Crete was that you might straighten out what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you. An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless

[stevehut]

When I last heard, there were Catholics who were calling for changes within the Catholic church; allowance for homosexual clergy, abortion, etc.

[stevehut]

what is so wrong with circular reasoning when it is not in contradiction with the scriptures but supports it?

You're kidding, right?

OK, just off the top of my head, i dunno, but how 'bout this?...

It's dishonest!!

[stevehut]

I remember reading something about Pope JP II said that even he couldn't change the Church's dogma/doctrine, I guess he was referring to the Magisterium ruling.

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Very interesting.

I find it amazing, after all these years, (even among Catholics) that people are still trying to figure out where teaching authority lies.

[Pax]

Pope Benedict XVI was a great selection as the next Vicar of Christ. If you are a so called Catholic who has an agenda to try and change the Chruch, such as recognizing same sex marriages, women Priest, laity having more control, rationalizing contraception/abortion, than yes you will not like Pope Benedict. But like I've said a million times on here, the Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit so doctrine will never change.

Edited June 8, 2005 by Pax

[stevehut]

the Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit so doctrine will never change. 

So they issued a new Catechism a few years ago because....

The doctrine stayed the same?

[stevehut]

You folks refer to her as "holy" and the "Mother of God". 

When the Council of Ephesus called Mary the "Mother God", it was a part of a larger issue, reaffirming the deity of Christ.

Look into the records of the Council. The "MOG" title was intended as a means to glorify Jesus, not Mary.

[vox]

what is so wrong with circular reasoning when it is not in contradiction with the scriptures but supports it?

You're kidding, right?

OK, just off the top of my head, i dunno, but how 'bout this?...

It's dishonest!!

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Please read Post#127

[stevehut]

Please read Post#127

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