Jump to content

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  26
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  3,216
  • Content Per Day:  0.42
  • Reputation:   43
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/24/2004
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  05/16/1962

Posted
There are numerous websites by alleged ex-Catholics that engage in evangelization aimed specifically at Catholics. Most use anti-Catholicism as their primary means of attack. Very few rely on a positive presentation of a faith to which they hope to convert Catholics. For the most part, they simply

  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  26
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  3,216
  • Content Per Day:  0.42
  • Reputation:   43
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/24/2004
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  05/16/1962

Posted
1- So, why did NO early Christian ever speak about a grave of the Virgin Mary? Unless there never was one.

2- Indeed, in the time of St. Ignatius of Antioch (c. 107), we had the heresy of the Docetists, who claimed that Jesus did not have an earthly body.

3- Yet, if Mary's grave was available, it would have been used by both Ignatius and the Docetists to support their positions.

4- her tomb, when opened upon the request of St. Thomas, was found empty

1- Or perhaps because she wasn't venerated at the time, as she is now? :emot-hug:

2- The Gnostics believed this as well.

3- The presence of Mary's grave would prove the humanity of Jesus? How?

4- If she was assumed bodily into heaven, then why would there be a tomb to open?


  • Group:  Advanced Member
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  1
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  349
  • Content Per Day:  0.04
  • Reputation:   5
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  09/08/2003
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  12/12/1939

Posted

This is a question for any practing catholic.are children still taught to pray for there father or mother if they are not catholic because they will go to hell if not catholic.?Do not say this was never done cause i was taught that as a child in the early 40 in catholic school.Has church doctrine change or not .Please give me a plain yes or no.

Guest lily
Posted

EricH Yesterday, 08:56 PM

QUOTE

It was the Apostle John to whom Mary's Assumption was first revealed (Rev 11:19) - which is fitting since he was the disciple with whom our Lord entrusted the care of His mother (Jn 19:25-27) - an act which argues against Mary having other children since it would have been the duty of any surviving children to have cared for Mary if there had been any others beside Jesus.

Matthew 1:24 Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife.

25 and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name Jesus.

This verse shows that Mary did not remain a virgin after the birth of Jesus. Joseph "did not know her" til after the birth of the Son.

Matthew 12: 46 While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him.

47 Then one said to Him, "Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You."

48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, "Who is My mother and who are My brothers?"

49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, "Here are My mothers and brothers!

50 "For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother."

This verse shows that Jesus did have brothers, and Jesus says that whoever does the will of the Father is His brother and sister and mother, He didn't hold His family higher then anyone else, we are all to do the will of God. I believe Mary was greatly blessed by God, as will all the people who do the will of God.


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  73
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  3,663
  • Content Per Day:  0.50
  • Reputation:   5
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  03/20/2005
  • Status:  Offline

Posted
This is a question for any practing catholic.are children still taught to pray for there father or mother if they are not catholic because they will go to hell if not catholic.?Do not say this was never done cause i was taught that as a child in the early 40 in catholic school.Has church doctrine change or not .Please give me a plain yes or no.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes-Catholic children are taught to pray for their parents

No-the Catholic Church does not say that anyone will go to hell because they are not Catholic


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  82
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  498
  • Content Per Day:  0.07
  • Reputation:   7
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  10/10/2004
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  01/25/1949

Posted

The Plain Truth about

the Roman Catholic Church

The Roman Catholic Church claims to have started in Matthew 16:18 when Christ supposedly appointed Peter as the first Pope. However, the honest and objective student of the Scriptures and history soon discovers that the foundation of the Roman church is none other than the pagan mystery religion of ancient Babylon.

While enduring the early persecutions of the Roman government (65-300 A.D.), most of professing Christianity went through a gradual departure from New Testament doctrine concerning church government, worship and practice. Local churches ceased to be autonomous by giving way to the control of "bishops" ruling over hierarchies. The simple form of worship from the heart was replaced with the rituals and splendor of paganism. Ministers became "priests," and pagans became "Christians" by simply being sprinkled with water. This tolerance of an unregenerate membership only made things worse. SPRINKLED PAGANISM is about the best definition for Roman Catholicism.

The Roman Emperor Constantine established himself as the head of the church around 313 A.D., which made this new "Christianity" the official religion of the Roman Empire. The first actual Pope in Rome was probably Leo I (440-461 A.D.), although some claim that Gregory I was the first (590-604 A.D.). This ungodly system eventually ushered in the darkest period of history known to man, properly known as the "Dark Ages" (500-1500 A.D.). Through popes, bishops, and priests, Satan ruled Europe, and Biblical Christianity became illegal.

Throughout all of this, however, there remained individual groups of true Christians, such as the Waldensens and the Anabaptists who would not conform to the Roman system.

The Papacy and Priesthood

In the Bible there are no popes or priests to rule over the church. Jesus Christ is our High Priest (Heb. 3:1; 4:14-15; 5:5; 8:1; 9:11), and all true Christians make up a spiritual priesthood (I Pet. 2:5). Jesus Christ has sanctified all Christians who believe on Him (Heb. 10:10-11), so all priests today are unnecessary and unscriptural. Furthermore, the practice of calling a priest "father" is forbidden by Jesus Christ in Matthew 23:9. There is only ONE mediator between God and men (I Tim. 2:5).

The Catholic church teaches that Peter was the first Pope and the earthly head of the church, but the Bible never says this once. In fact, it was Peter himself who spoke against "being lords over God's heritage" in I Peter 5:3. Popes do not marry, although Peter did (Mat. 8:14; I Cor. 9:5). The Bible never speaks of Peter being in Rome, and it was Paul, not Peter, who wrote the epistle to the Romans. In the New Testament, Paul wrote 100 chapters with 2,325 verses, while Peter wrote only 8 chapters with 166 verses. In Peter's first epistle he stated that he was simply "an apostle of Jesus Christ," not a Pope (I Pet. 1:1). The Roman papacy and priesthood is just a huge fraud to keep members in bondage to a corrupt pagan church.

The Worship of Mary

Roman Catholics believe that Mary, the mother of Jesus, remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus and was sinless all of her life. She is worshiped in the Catholic church as the "Mother of God" and the "Queen of Heaven." St. Bernard stated that she was crowned "Queen of Heaven" by God the Father, and that she currently sits upon a throne in Heaven making intercession for Christians.

The Bible teaches otherwise. In the Bible, Mary was a sinner just like the rest of us. She said herself that she needed a "Saviour" (Lk. 1:47), and she even had to offer a sacrifice for her sins in Luke 2:24. Jesus was only her "firstborn" son, according to Matthew 1:25, because she later had other children as well (Mt. 13:55; Gal. 1:19; Psa. 69:8). There's only ONE mediator between God and men, and it isn't Mary (I Tim. 2:5). The last time we hear from Mary in the Bible she is praying WITH the disciples, not being prayed to BY the disciples (Acts 1:14). The Bible never exalts Mary above anyone else. Neither should we.

Purgatory

The Catholic Church teaches that a Christian's soul must burn in purgatory after death until all of their sins have been purged. To speed up the purging process, money may be paid to a priest so he can pray and have special masses for an earlier release.

This heresy began creeping into the Roman Church during the reign of Pope Gregory around the end of the sixth century, and it has no scriptural support. In fact, Jesus warned us about this pagan practice in Matthew 23:14 when He spoke of those who devoured widows houses and made long prayers for a pretence. Psalm 49:6-7 tells us that a person couldn't redeem a loved one, even if such a place did exist: "They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches; None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:"

Peter addresses this issue in Acts 8:20 when he says, "Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money." God's word is clearly against the doctrine of purgatory.

The Mass

By perverting the Christian practice of the Lord's Supper (Mat. 26:26-28; I Cor. 11:23-27), the Catholic Church has created the Mass, which they believe to be a continual sacrifice of Jesus Christ:

"Christ...commanded that his bloody sacrifice on the Cross should be daily renewed by an unbloody sacrifice of his body and blood in the Mass under the simple elements of bread and wine." (The Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 10, Pg. 13, Article: "Mass, Sacrifice of")

Jesus never made such a command. If you'll check the above references in Matthew 26 and I Corinthians 11, you'll see for yourself that the Lord's Supper is a MEMORIAL and a SHOWING of Christ's death until He comes again. It is not a sacrifice. The Catholic Encyclopedia states the following:

"In the celebration of the Holy Mass, the bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of Christ. It is called transubstantiation, for in the Sacrament of the Eucharist the substance of bread and wine do not remain, but the entire substance of bread is changed into the body of Christ, and the entire substance of wine is changed into his blood, the species or outward semblence of bread and wine alone remaining." (Vol. 4, pg. 277, Article: "Consecration")

The Catholic Church teaches that the "Holy Mass" is a LITERAL EATING AND DRINKING OF THE LITERAL FLESH AND BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST. The priest supposedly has the power to change the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ.

Now, what does God's word say about such practices? If you'll read Genesis 9:4, Leviticus 17:11-12, and Acts 15:29, you will find that God absolutely FORBIDS the drinking of blood all through the Bible.

Rome teaches that the Mass is a continual "sacrifice" of Jesus Christ, but God's word states that Jesus made the FINAL sacrifice on Calvary! This is made perfectly clear in Hebrews 10:10-12:

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God."

The mass is unnecessary and unscriptural.

Image Worship

The Catholic religion is filled with all sorts of symbols, images, and relics. The Catechism of the Council of Trent states these words:

"It is lawful to have images in the Church, and to give honor and worship unto them..."

It's lawful to honor and worship images? Not according to God's word. Exodus 20:4-5 says, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me." Image worship is unscriptural and will end with the eternal damnation of those who practice it (Rev. 14:11).

Salvation by Works

Through infant baptism, keeping sacraments, church membership, going to mass, praying to Mary, and confession (just to mention a few), the Catholic church has developed a system of salvation through WORKS. God's word says that we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not through works:

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Eph. 2:8-9)

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." (Romans 4:5)

Jesus Christ came into this world to lay down His sinless life for YOU--to pay for your sins, because you couldn't. Jesus is your only hope for salvation. Only by receiving Him as your Saviour can you enter the gates of Heaven. There is no other way.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me." (John 14:6)

The Lord Jesus Christ has come and PAID for your sins by shedding His own Blood on Calvary. By receiving Him as your Saviour, you can be WASHED from all your sins in His precious Blood (Rev. 1:5; Col. 1:14; Acts 20:28; I Pet. 1:18-19). Notice these important words from Romans 5:8-9:

"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."

Jesus PAID your way to Heaven for you! By receiving Him as your Saviour, you will be receiving God's ONLY means of Salvation for you. Are you willing to forsake YOUR righteousness and receive Jesus Christ as your Saviour, your ONLY HOPE for Salvation? Romans 10:13 says, "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:9 says, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Are you willing to forsake your own righteousness, and trust Jesus Christ alone? He will save you just as He promised. Why not receive Him today and trust Him to give you a better way of life?

Copyright


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  26
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  3,216
  • Content Per Day:  0.42
  • Reputation:   43
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/24/2004
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  05/16/1962

Posted
No-the Catholic Church does not say that anyone will go to hell because they are not Catholic

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:emot-hug: ?

Pius IX, December 9th, 1854:

We must hold as of the faith, that out of the Apostolic Roman Church there is no salvation; that she is the only ark of safety, and whosoever is not in her perishes in the deluge

Fourth Lateran Council 1215

"Extra Ecclesiam Nullus omnino Salvatur." -- "Out of the Church there is positively no Salvation."


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  82
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  498
  • Content Per Day:  0.07
  • Reputation:   7
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  10/10/2004
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  01/25/1949

Posted
No-the Catholic Church does not say that anyone will go to hell because they are not Catholic

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:b: ?

Pius IX, December 9th, 1854:

We must hold as of the faith, that out of the Apostolic Roman Church there is no salvation; that she is the only ark of safety, and whosoever is not in her perishes in the deluge

Fourth Lateran Council 1215

"Extra Ecclesiam Nullus omnino Salvatur." -- "Out of the Church there is positively no Salvation."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi steve mate,look here ,lets see if our Rcc friends will read this...I doubt it,but lets try:

Catholicism's Ever-Changing Doctrine

What Is The Dogma Of The Day?

It is fascinating to study the dogma and doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church. The fascination lies not in the dogma themselves but, rather, in their imaginative origins and the incredible lengths taken to substantiate them. It is also incredibly interesting to look back over the years at how Catholic dogma, which supposedly are immutable, seem to defy the RCC's definition and mutate anyway.

One wonderful dogma, defined by popes and councils, holds that:

"Outside the Church there is no salvation, thus membership in the Church is necessary." (Adam S. Miller, The Final Word, Tower of David Publications:Gaithersburg (1997), p. 16)

That seems clear to me. According to this dogma, one must be a member of the Roman Catholic Church if he is to be saved. Stated another way, the dogma reads: Extra ecclesia nulla salus.

Some modern Catholics might ask who is Adam S. Miller and what authority does he have to define RCC dogma? Valid questions. The answer, of course, is that Miller did not define this dogma but merely included it in his little book of more than 110 defined dogmas of the Roman cult. A dogma, for those who might has slept through catechism class, is a teaching that every Roman Catholic must believe as a matter of faith - that is, without reservation - lest he lose his salvation.

In this age of easy-believism, both Catholic and non-Catholic, no doubt there will be some who who might chuckle at such a strict interpretation of an ancient rule of faith. And it is ancient, going back at least as far as the Athanasian Creed (ca. 400 AD), wherein one might read:

"Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and entire, he will without a doubt perish in eternity. . . This is the Catholic faith' unless everyone believes this faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved." (Denzinger 39, 30)

Some of the Church Fathers, who were not Catholic because there was as yet no Roman Catholic Church, wrote of the necessity of belonging to the Church. They were, of course, referring to membership in the True Church, which is the Body of Christ and whose membership is comprised of all those who are truly saved by God's unmerited grace, through faith alone in Christ alone. That the Roman cult appropriated their words and twisted their meanings to require membership in the RCC as a prerequisite for salvation should come as no surprise to those who are familiar with the Magisterium's peculiar and self-serving theology. These words of Origen, written in the third century, make no mention of the Roman cult in this formal declaration:

"Outside the Church nobody will be saved. (Extra ecclesiam nemo salvatur)" (Origen, In Jesu Nave hom. 3,5)

Cyprian, another third century Church Father, wrote something similar:

"Outside the Church there is no salvation." (Salus extra ecclesiam non est)" (Cyprian of Carthage, Epistle 73, To Iubaianus, n.21, Migne: Patrologiae Cursus completus. Series prima Latina, Parisiis; 1844)

The fourth Lateran Council declared, in 1215, that:

"One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved . . ." (Lateran IV, The Catholic Faith, Chap. 1; Denzinger 430)

The bishops assembled at Lateran IV cited the above words of Cyprian as support for their position that outside the Church no one can be saved. They did not look to the inspired Word of God as found in the sacred Scriptures for their support, but to the words of a man and then changed their meaning to point to the Roman cult and not the True Church as was Cyprian's intention.

There no doubt are some Catholics who might reject the words of Origen, Cyprian and the Athanasian Creed as not be binding on the church in that they were not formally defined according to the criteria established by the First Vatican Council. I don't know that ex post facto dogma are any more valid for the Roman Catholic Church than are ex post facto laws valid under the United States Constitution. Just to be certain, however, let us search for a definition of this dogma that would satisfy even the criteria of Vatican I. In 1302, Pope Boniface VIII promulgated the Bull Unam Sanctam, wherein these defining words might be found:

"With faith urging us we are forced to believe and to hold the one, holy, Catholic Church and that, apostolic, and we firmly believe and simply confess this (Church) outside which there is no salvation nor remission of sin . . . Furthermore, we declare, say, define and proclaim to every human creature that they by necessity for salvation are entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff." (Denzinger 468-69)

Now there's a definition of a dogma if ever I saw one. Here is another:

"It (Roman Church) firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart "into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church." (Council of Florence (1441), Pope Eugenius, Decree for the Jacobites, in the Bull Cantata Domino; Denzinger 714)

Can there be any doubt that it is a dogma of the Roman Catholic Church, defined by two ecumenical councils and confirmed by two reigning popes, that salvation is not possible outside the RCC? It is further specified that one cannot be saved, "even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ," unless he is in the very bosom of the Catholic Church. What does it mean to "be in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church?" This points to another dogma; another link in a chain of such teachings built link by link, drawing from one another and supporting one another in an endless circle.

"The members of the Church are those who have validly received the Sacrament of Baptism and who are not separated from the unity of the confession of the Faith, and from the unity of the lawful communion of the Church. (Sent. Cert.)" (Ludwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, Tan Books and Publishers:Rockford (1974), p. 309; w/Nihil Obstat and Imprimitur)

Pius XII made it crystal clear as to just what it takes to be a member of the Roman Catholic Church:

"Actually only those are to be numbered among the members of the Church who have received the laver of regeneration and profess the true faith, and have not, to their misfortune, separated themselves from the structure of the Body, or for very serious sins have not been excluded by lawful authority." (Pius XII, Mystici Corporis, encyclical, June 29, 1943; Denzinger 2286)

A highly respected Catholic theologian and teacher explains what the Pope said in these terms:

"According to this declaration three conditions are to be demanded for membership of the Church: a) The valid reception of the Sacrament of Baptism. B) The profession of the true Faith. C) Participation in the Communion of the Church. By the fulfilment of these three conditions one subjects oneself to the threefold office of the Church, the sacerdotal office (Baptism), the teaching office (Confession of Faith), and the pastoral office (obedience to Church authority)." (Ludwig Ott, Op. Cit.)

To recap, it is a defined dogma of the RCC that not only is salvation impossible outside the Church but that to be saved one must be baptized in the RCC, profess the Catholic faith and participate in the Communion of the RCC. We have this from at least two ecumenical councils and three popes. As frosting on the cake, let us add the words of another pope, who declared it to be error to believe that;

"In the worship of any religion whatever, men can find the way toi eternal salvation, and can attain eternal salvation." (Pius IX, "Syllabus," or Collection of Modern Errors, Section III; Denzinger 1716)

"We must have at least good hope concerning the eternal salvation of all those who in no wise are in the true Church of Christ." (Pius IX, "Syllabus," or Collection of Modern Errors, Section III; Denzinger 1717)

One of the boasts of the Roman cult, a motto if you will, is that it is Semper Eadem, always the same. That this applies to dogma of the RCC was made clear by Pope Paul VI:

"The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful--who confirms his brethren in the faith (cf. Lk. 22:32)--he proclaims in an absolute decision a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals.[42] For that reason his definitions are rightly said to be irreformable by their very nature and not by reason of the assent of the Church, is as much as they were made with the assistance of the Holy Spirit promised to him in the person of blessed Peter himself; and as a consequence they are in no way in need of the approval of others, and do not admit of appeal to any other tribunal." (Paul VI, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church (Lumen Gentium), November 21, 1964)

Another Romish theologian helps us to understand that dogma, once defined, are immutable. He then goes on to explain that when dogma change, it is not because they have been re-defined, but that they simply have been clarified. Classic RCC doublespeak.

"Dogmas, as divine truths revealed by God, are eternal and unchangeable. That is why a dogma can never be "re-defined." Yet, in this work you will notice that most of these dogmas have been solemnly defined and/or pronounced more than once. These are not "re-definitions." Rather, they are further definitions and/or clarifications which buttress aspects of a dogma that have come under some form of denial or attack. The content of these denials/attacks was often not anticipated in the preceding pronouncements. Hence, each further definition is a MORE PRECISE definition of the dogma. It is never the opposite. It is never an expansion or widening, and thus changing, of what the dogma holds. It is never an evolution as to the content and substance of a dogma. The reason this is so is, again, because dogmas are immutable. Truth cannot change." (Adam S. Miller, Op. Cit., p. 3)

That's the RCC's position on dogmas. Dogmas, being divinely-revealed truth, are immutable. They cannot be changed because truth cannot change. They cannot be re-defined, only clarrified or made more precise. They can never be made to say something opposite to what they originally said. Keeping this in mind, look again at the words used by Pope Boniface VIII to define the necessity of membership in the RCC and submission to the pope for salvation:

"With faith urging us we are forced to believe and to hold the one, holy, Catholic Church and that, apostolic, and we firmly believe and simply confess this (Church) outside which there is no salvation nor remission of sin . . . Furthermore, we declare, say, define and proclaim to every human creature that they by necessity for salvation are entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff." (Denzinger 468-69)

And to this clear declaration of a dogma, add the clarifying definition of Pope Eugenius,

"It (Roman Church) firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life . . .and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church." (Council of Florence (1441), Pope Eugenius, Decree for the Jacobites, in the Bull Cantata Domino; Denzinger 714)

Now let us turn our attention to the new Catechism of the Catholic Church, which informs catechumins that:

"Outside the Church there is no salvation."

846. "How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body. . .

847. "This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

"Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation. " (Catechism of the Catholic Church, Doubleday:New York,


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  26
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  3,216
  • Content Per Day:  0.42
  • Reputation:   43
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/24/2004
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  05/16/1962

Posted
Some of the Church Fathers, who were not Catholic because there was as yet no Roman Catholic Church, wrote of the necessity of belonging to the Church. They were, of course, referring to membership in the True Church, which is the Body of Christ and whose membership is comprised of all those who are truly saved by God's unmerited grace

Yup. :emot-hug:

Our Catholic brothers often to claim the Church Fathers as their own. But this is misleading, because (with perhaps a few exceptions) they were not defending the Holy See, inparticular. They spoke on behalf of Christians, period.


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  14
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  961
  • Content Per Day:  0.13
  • Reputation:   3
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  05/30/2005
  • Status:  Offline

Posted

Salvation through the Catholic Church is a difficult topic to understand for many. Many of you don't understand what the Church is teaching, so I will once again try to enlighten you. The Catholic Church has always taught that there will only be salvation through ONE Church. Look at Mathew 16:18-19. Jesus Christ says very clearly "And I also say to you that you Peter, and on this rock I will build MY CHURCH, (not churches), and the gates of hades (hell) shall not prevail against it. And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and what ever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

There will only be salvation through ONE Church. Christ makes this very clear.

The next point about Catholic doctrine is that it can never change, but can evolve. So the Church still teaches that there will only be salvation through one Church, but does not say that if you are not Catholic you won't have a chance at salvation. It will obviously be more difficult since other churches don't have the sacraments and graces. This is what the Church teaches. She is not damning everyone else to hell like horizoneast, and other would like you to believe. I have told horizoneast this several times and he either doesn't get it, or is only going to continue to bash the Catholic church.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Our picks

    • You are coming up higher in this season – above the assignments of character assassination and verbal arrows sent to manage you, contain you, and derail your purpose. Where you have had your dreams and sleep robbed, as well as your peace and clarity robbed – leaving you feeling foggy, confused, and heavy – God is, right now, bringing freedom back -- now you will clearly see the smoke and mirrors that were set to distract you and you will disengage.

      Right now God is declaring a "no access zone" around you, and your enemies will no longer have any entry point into your life. Oil is being poured over you to restore the years that the locust ate and give you back your passion. This is where you will feel a fresh roar begin to erupt from your inner being, and a call to leave the trenches behind and begin your odyssey in your Christ calling moving you to bear fruit that remains as you minister to and disciple others into their Christ identity.

      This is where you leave the trenches and scale the mountain to fight from a different place, from victory, from peace, and from rest. Now watch as God leads you up higher above all the noise, above all the chaos, and shows you where you have been seated all along with Him in heavenly places where you are UNTOUCHABLE. This is where you leave the soul fight, and the mind battle, and learn to fight differently.

      You will know how to live like an eagle and lead others to the same place of safety and protection that God led you to, which broke you out of the silent prison you were in. Put your war boots on and get ready to fight back! Refuse to lay down -- get out of bed and rebuke what is coming at you. Remember where you are seated and live from that place.

      Acts 1:8 - “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses … to the end of the earth.”

       

      ALBERT FINCH MINISTRY
        • Thanks
        • This is Worthy
        • Thumbs Up
      • 3 replies
    • George Whitten, the visionary behind Worthy Ministries and Worthy News, explores the timing of the Simchat Torah War in Israel. Is this a water-breaking moment? Does the timing of the conflict on October 7 with Hamas signify something more significant on the horizon?

       



      This was a message delivered at Eitz Chaim Congregation in Dallas Texas on February 3, 2024.

      To sign up for our Worthy Brief -- https://worthybrief.com

      Be sure to keep up to date with world events from a Christian perspective by visiting Worthy News -- https://www.worthynews.com

      Visit our live blogging channel on Telegram -- https://t.me/worthywatch
      • 0 replies
    • Understanding the Enemy!

      I thought I write about the flip side of a topic, and how to recognize the attempts of the enemy to destroy lives and how you can walk in His victory!

      For the Apostle Paul taught us not to be ignorant of enemy's tactics and strategies.

      2 Corinthians 2:112  Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices. 

      So often, we can learn lessons by learning and playing "devil's" advocate.  When we read this passage,

      Mar 3:26  And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. 
      Mar 3:27  No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strongman; and then he will spoil his house. 

      Here we learn a lesson that in order to plunder one's house you must first BIND up the strongman.  While we realize in this particular passage this is referring to God binding up the strongman (Satan) and this is how Satan's house is plundered.  But if you carefully analyze the enemy -- you realize that he uses the same tactics on us!  Your house cannot be plundered -- unless you are first bound.   And then Satan can plunder your house!

      ... read more
        • Praise God!
        • Brilliant!
        • Loved it!
        • This is Worthy
        • Thumbs Up
      • 230 replies
    • Daniel: Pictures of the Resurrection, Part 3

      Shalom everyone,

      As we continue this study, I'll be focusing on Daniel and his picture of the resurrection and its connection with Yeshua (Jesus). 

      ... read more
        • Thumbs Up
      • 13 replies
    • Abraham and Issac: Pictures of the Resurrection, Part 2
      Shalom everyone,

      As we continue this series the next obvious sign of the resurrection in the Old Testament is the sign of Isaac and Abraham.

      Gen 22:1  After these things God tested Abraham and said to him, "Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am."
      Gen 22:2  He said, "Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you."

      So God "tests" Abraham and as a perfect picture of the coming sacrifice of God's only begotten Son (Yeshua - Jesus) God instructs Issac to go and sacrifice his son, Issac.  Where does he say to offer him?  On Moriah -- the exact location of the Temple Mount.

      ...read more
      • 20 replies
×
×
  • Create New...