What Is the Meaning of Hebrews 6:4-6?

[Melissa7]

On 3/20/2018 at 9:33 AM, GandalfTheWise said:

Many Christians try to bypass this process of the growth of faith by trying to convince themselves of things and trying to eliminate doubts on their own.  My observation is that all new Christians and those who get serious about following Christ after a time all have times of doubts and a sense of insecurity at times.  This is simply due to not having gotten to know God well enough.  No amount of someone telling you what particular verses "really" mean (and arguing why someone who disagrees is wrong) will address the core issue of lack of trust and confidence in God from not have walked closely with Him over a long period of time.  For every verse that talks about God's forgiveness, mercy, and acceptance of us, there is another verse that talks about God's wrath.  When our faith rests in our opinions (and other people's opinions) about what various verses mean and who they apply to, we will experience doubts and questions.  When our faith rests in God Himself and what He is doing in our life, we will not easily be shaken.

Hang in there.   Pretty much all of us (whether we admit it or not), have gone through periods of time where we have doubts and questions about God's forgiveness, mercy, and goodness towards us.  The most important thing is getting in the habit of walking with God more closely on a consistent basis.  That walk looks different for each of us.  We are each unique individuals that God created to reflect His glory in a way different from others.  The way God wants prayer, bible reading, being with other Christians, and other such things to look in your life will be different from others.  You need to figure out such things as do you pray best in the morning, evening, at night, throughout the day, sitting quietly alone, during a walk, while driving to work?  Each of us is different and our situations in life change.  We need to learn to walk closely with God in the unique way He intends us to.  Remember the apple tree analogy earlier.  Our faith is like that tree, as we tend it over time, it grows and starts to produce fruit.

Thank you Gandalf, I found your reply very helpful. I have heard of people instantly changing into a different person the moment they were saved, and I thought that's the way it might work. Your explanation makes better sense to me, and I'm relieved to know that just because it wasn't some mind-blowing, angels singing experience, that I'm still okay.

I also liked how you spoke of us each being unique individuals. For example, I am very stubborn and skeptical. Have always been this way. However, there have been instances in the past where I do feel that the Lord has used my natural skepticism for His purposes. I am fairly good at recognizing false teachers in churches; as well as in daily life when I think that people are being insincere. My intuition (or the Holy Spirit?) are often right. On the other hand, it causes me problems when trying to tell someone in truth and love, that their favorite preacher is wrong!

Anyways, thanks again. 

[Melissa7]

23 hours ago, Christine said:

This verse causes consternation to many. However it is important that we remember to whom this letter was initially addressed, and consider the context carefully.

Thanks for reminding me of this! I was reading Hebrews for another reason altogether and when I came to Chapter 6:4-6, it kind of stopped me in my tracks. Then worry followed.

23 hours ago, Christine said:

Rest in God, Melissa, for you are in His hands, and He will take you on further into the knowledge of Himself, in His time: as you wait on Him and allow His Word to dwell in you richly.

Thank you Christine! I appreciate the encouragement 

[Joulre2abba]

On 3/20/2018 at 8:57 AM, Melissa7 said:

I have always been concerned about the meaning of the above scriptures. My understanding of it is that if a person was once saved, but then later loses their faith or falls away from God, they will be unable (not allowed) to repent and come back to God.

If a person keeps falling down often, and then prays again for salvation several times over a time period, is this what is meant by "crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace?"

I recently re-dedicated my life to the Lord (again) after 15 years away. It's verses like the ones above that cause me distress; thinking that God won't accept me back.

But then, I've never felt truly "enlightened", or some of the other descriptions used. Perhaps I was never truly saved to begin with? But that doesn't make sense since I've had spiritual experiences in the past, that only could've come from the Holy Spirit.

I'm confused by these few verses. I would be grateful to anyone who could explain them in an easy-to-understand way.

I too have rededicated my life to the Lord some years ago. I could have worried that the verses described me too. But in reading the text studiously and researching every word.. checking out reliable Bible commentaries, etc.. I don't believe that the verses are addressing a person like we who have been lambs that had gone astray and been returned joyfully to the fold. We had been young in the things of the Lord so our going astray is forgivable.. like even the prodigal son whom the father rejoices to have returned to him.

To us is Psalm 25.. The Lord teaches sinners the way, directing those who go astray back to Him. To us is Psalm 51.. a very good template for rededication to the Lord.

Far different is the description of one who is mature (enlightened) in the things of God.. like the apostle Paul himself.. and yet that person one day makes the irreconcilable decision to depart from God and once again be a sinner or even worse than before. Such a thing subjects the sacrifice of Jesus to public disgrace.. as if it wasn't good enough or powerful enough.

Such a decision is made by such a person, knowing fully what they are doing when they do it. Knowing that they can never return again, being decided that they are fine with that, and instead they choose to be a fervent disciple of the antichrist.

For them, the crucifixion of Jesus for returning to salvation is no longer available because the choice they made is final. They go down a road which leads only to destruction. Does it apply to Judas? I suppose that someone could make a case that it does.

But such a thing is very rare indeed because God's mercy and grace is so great to prevent it from being a common thing, but yet the mention of it in those verses shows that it is possible to happen.

But, let your soul remember God's Love for you.

[Melissa7]

23 hours ago, wingnut- said:

There is an overall theme throughout the New Testament, in regards to what the definition of the apostasy is.  It should not be confused with backsliding or stumbling, it is a conscious, deliberate choice to betray your Redeemer.

Thanks wing, for your thoughtful reply. I understood what you said about the parable of the sower, so I chose not to quote your entire comment. However, the above two sentences are worth repeating, and may also help other new believers understand some of these things.

I'm very relieved to know that backsliding or losing our closeness to Jesus, due to circumstances such as: loss of a loved one, depression & other mental illness, health issues/chronic pain, or simply the pressures of life, are not what the Bible is talking about.

As far as I know, I have never made a conscious and deliberate choice to betray my Redeemer. To me, that is just going too far. And even though I would be frightened of the pain, I would indeed die for my beliefs, if it came down to it. I would think that, for any believer there isn't a choice. Who, in their right mind, would want to spend eternity in Hell? Not being in Heaven with Jesus after I die is the saddest fate I can imagine. Burning and being tortured is scary, yes, but the absence of God's presence for all eternity is even worse.

Sorry for rambling on here. I'm grateful for your reply, wing, and glad to know that my understanding of certain scriptures are sometimes incorrect! 

[Melissa7]

33 minutes ago, Joulre2abba said:

Far different is the description of one who is mature (enlightened) in the things of God.. like the apostle Paul himself.. and yet that person one day makes the irreconcilable decision to depart from God and once again be a sinner or even worse than before. Such a thing subjects the sacrifice of Jesus to public disgrace.. as if it wasn't good enough or powerful enough.

Such a decision is made by such a person, knowing fully what they are doing when they do it. Knowing that they can never return again, being decided that they are fine with that, and instead they choose to be a fervent disciple of the antichrist.

For them, the crucifixion of Jesus for returning to salvation is no longer available because the choice they made is final. They go down a road which leads only to destruction.

I agree, and your opinion shows a different perspective on the topic. I don't believe I have ever met anyone that meets this description. Only atheists and they don't count in the context of this discussion.

Thanks for commenting, this is a good reply! 

[Melissa7]

Please know...Anyone to whom I did not respond to, don't take it personally. There is a lot of  information in this thread, and it took me awhile to read through it all. I tried to at least acknowledge everyone with a reaction.

I learned a lot through this discussion, and I'm no longer worried that these few verses apply to me. Thanks to all of you for that! Also, @Yowm pointed out that I pulled the verses of out of context with the rest of the book. He's correct. However, the verses themselves seem out of context. To me, they stood out like a sore thumb.

First I was reading about Jesus being our High Priest, and that He's the perfect High Priest because He knows what we deal with as humans. Then I'm reading 6:4-6, and it jolted me.

The important thing is that I now understand what these verses mean, and who the audience was. A big thanks to all the members who've commented so far. 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2018 by Melissa7
changed a word

[Alex2165]

Hi Melissa

I think only Naomi perfectly answered you question, shortly and to the point. There are exist two kinds of believers, one kind pretended to be Christians following all the ritual and doctrine of the church, but live their lives according to the world.

Second kind are those who took Bible and its Commandments seriously and tried to rich highest level of righteousness and holiness before GOD as Scriptures teach about, even if they have to sacrifice many valuable and important things in their life, because principals of GOD much more important to them than anything else.

People who knowingly or purposely sin cannot redeem themselves, wrongly and naively thinking that Sacrifice of Jesus Christ would redeem them. They thinking that they are saved according to the false church doctrine which teach that all who call on Christ will be saved.

Church took general term and converted it to the false doctrine that everybody saved if you believe it or know and sure that you are saved (mostly the Baptist teach this).

In actuality there is no such thing to know if you are saved or not. Only GOD knows who are saved and who will perish, and as mentioned in the Bible, the names of all who are saved written in the Book of Life.

If some of those hypocrites who claimed that they are saved able to look in the Book of Life and sow their name in it, then they are telling the truth. So far I do not know anyone who able to do this.

But those who tried hard, and follow the Commandments of the Lord but sin unintentionally here and there, but repent each time they committed a sin, they are by their repentance Sacrificing Christ, presenting Him to the Lord as a Gilt Offering, and subsequently forgiven.

People who flip-flopping back and forth, accepting the Lord and then rejecting Him, are not reliable not only in the eyes of human beings but most importantly in the eyes of the Lord, and no one including GOD can depend on them.

Because of it they cannot be accepted again when they know and experienced the goodness and the love of the Lord, but turned their back, rejected Him, and then after a while turned back to Him again.

Nobody likes such people, the Lord included. As it is written, those who took the plough and look back are not worthy and are not reliable for the Kingdom of GOD.

To make it simpler, those who stay with the Lord and sin can be forgiven many times, because it is our nature to sin, and GOD knows it very well.

But those who have been with the Lord and then walk away from Him completely, cannot be admitted again into His realm of influence and life, because they never took Him seriously enough in the first place, in order to receive from Him full pardon and be admitted again.

So you have to decide for yourself where you are standing and dedicated your life to, to the world or to Christ, you cannot have both, you cannot serve two masters.

 

[Hidden In Him]

On 3/20/2018 at 7:57 AM, Melissa7 said:

I have always been concerned about the meaning of the above scriptures. My understanding of it is that if a person was once saved, but then later loses their faith or falls away from God, they will be unable (not allowed) to repent and come back to God.

If a person keeps falling down often, and then prays again for salvation several times over a time period, is this what is meant by "crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace?"

I recently re-dedicated my life to the Lord (again) after 15 years away. It's verses like the ones above that cause me distress; thinking that God won't accept me back.

But then, I've never felt truly "enlightened", or some of the other descriptions used. Perhaps I was never truly saved to begin with? But that doesn't make sense since I've had spiritual experiences in the past, that only could've come from the Holy Spirit.

I'm confused by these few verses. I would be grateful to anyone who could explain them in an easy-to-understand way.

Greetings, Melissa! 

I think the misunderstanding of this passage comes from the rendering of “impossible” for the Greek word Ἀδύνατον, which should more properly be translated as “unrealizable” (Liddell-Scott, P.25). The passage has to do with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, and how if the "rain" of the Holy Spirit is poured out upon a believer yet produces only "thorns and thistles" (Hebrews 6:7-8), then they "crucify unto themselves the Son of God again.” In other words, they kill off the work of the Holy Spirit within themselves, which thereby makes it impossible for them to repent, for which reason they are "near to a curse." What he’s saying is that if someone quenches the Spirit of God from their life entirely then they have no power left to “realize” repentance in turning from sin. The reason is because the Holy Spirit was sent to empower us to do this. This is confirmed by verse 7, where he says that any spiritual ground that produced good fruit would receive even more blessing from God (in the form of spiritual “light” and “rain”), whereas any ground that produced only thorns and thistles would not receive any more such blessings.

In other words, he means “impossible,” not in the sense that God would never take them back, but in the sense that by quenching the Holy Spirit they extinguish the very power He provides to repent from sin and produce good fruit.

You are apparently still seeking the Holy Spirit’s empowerment in your life, so you are not someone he would have been referring to here.

Hope that encourages you.

 

[Heb 13:8]

On 3/22/2018 at 3:46 AM, shiloh357 said:

If you go back up where the context starts in Heb. 5:11, the issue that is raised has to do with spiritual maturity.  That's the complaint being made by the writer of Hebrews. He is not saying that they are in danger of losing salvation.   The complaint is that the audience is stuck in the elementary doctrines and are not growing spiritually.

So that is the subject matter of Heb. 6:4-6.  Look at it starting in v. 1:

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.   (Heb 6:1-3)   Do you  see what I mean about the issue being spiritually maturity?  The word "principles" is a word in Greek that refers to the "first things"  and speaks to the elementary principles they first learned when they got saved.   They need to move on from that unto "perfection" or as it is rendered in Greek, "maturity."  

So, vv. 4-6 are not talking about losing salvation.  The phrase "fall away" in v. 6 is not the word for "apostasy"  but is the word used for someone who isn't growing in their faith.  They are not living in sin, not living in rebellion per se.  They have not forsaken the Lord, but at the same time, are not growing in the Lord either.  The word in Greek, peripiptos, means to "fall aside."  It is like an athlete who wears out because he is not conditioned to keep running in the competition.   The idea isn't that they have lost salvation, but that they have lost their passion and are not actively living for the Lord.

The phrase you asked about referring to "they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame," is making the point that we can't keep going back to the beginning.   His point is that we cannot go back and start over and get renewed unto repentance because in order to do that, Jesus would have to be re-crucified.   And he is saying that their insistence on going back and starting over and wanting to just stay in the elementary principles is akin to a re-crucifying of Jesus and subjecting Him open shame. 

We don't have to keep going back and getting re-saved.  In fact the very notion that we lose salvation and then have to get re-saved and start over, is the very thing that would contradict Heb. 6:4-6 because it is the very thing the writer of Hebrews says puts Jesus to open shame. 

It's funny how everyone ignores your post, but you are right. if only we would read in context. 

Heb 5:11 We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand.

[Heb 13:8]

Heb 6:1 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,

Heb 9:14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!