Alex2165

To Angels4u. You described and presented very well the differences between good and bad shepherds. You also mentioned very important passage of the Bible concerning so called “hireling” which is Jesus mentioned and described in John 10.12-13. And this is the core of the problem in the Christian churches since the day they had been established. So called “hirelings,” are men and women who paid to be educated in theology and finished the Seminary, started preaching the Word of GOD for money, which is complete corruption and not according to the Bible Scripture, because money and spiritually have nothing in common. And this is why today’s Christianity in such poor state and slow dying, because “hireling” cannot deliver the true Word of GOD which they themselves do not know and do not understand, and their major motivation is not the care for the sheep but for profit. So this warning of Jesus in the Book of John came true in its full prophetic force and essence, and the only way to correct it is to establish the new church, there the Word of GOD preached not for money but for spiritual education of the public and for they salvation. No one in any church should preach for money, this is abomination and great sin, but all teachers should take example from Jesus Christ, His apostles, and all men of GOD who never charge anyone but taught people true Word of GOD and completely dedicated their lives to such mission. They supported themselves and even others but never charged or even asked anyone to be paid. Only such pastors (shepherds) like Jesus and the apostles shall be in the church to teach and to preach the Word of GOD, and not those who are “hirelings” and running only after material reward. And only then salvation also will come and to those who are otherwise will perish by following hirelings, the false shepherds, who only live from the flock but do not care for it. 1Timothy 6.10 10.The love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, and in their eagerness to be rich some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pains. Matthew 6.24 24.No one can serve two masters, a slave will either hate the one and love the other, or be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve GOD and wealth." (Matthew 6.24) (Luke 16.13)

To George. Just recently I posted similar topic in “General” section under the name “Saved or not Saved.” My point in that topic was that beside the general terminology, slogans, and headlines which said that believing in Christ brings salvation, there is also CONDITIONS, under which the salvation can be achieved, and the most important point is that the believing alone is not enough to be saved, and everything what Jesus Christ and His Father GOD ever said, commanded, and required, are all CONDITIONAL requests in order for a human beings achieve forgiveness and salvation, and the entrance into the Kingdom of GOD, as you pointed out in this thread. You wrote similar topic in your post: “While many focus on “salvation” and while this is the entrance into the Kingdom – the salvation message, is just the beginning of the bigger message that Yeshua was preaching.” You did not mention the “bigger message,” so my question to you, what the bigger message is?

To Old School. The subject you had touched is indeed very important but is overlooked by the church. According to your post, it seems I little bit strange that some of the theological “giants” could not tell the difference between preaching and teaching! It looks like conversation between two Talmudists who tried to figure out of how many angels can be fit on the needle tip, and still couldn’t come up with any reasonable or logical answer. Just recently we have discussion in my church about attracting and inviting people to the church, and as it is expected many suggestions had been made, but it looks like that none of them really work. And the reason perhaps lies in the old fashioned format of the church which does a lot of preaching but no teaching. Preaching became like one size “shoe” that suppose fit all, and such approach never work before and does not work today. The reason is simple, because preaching is inspirational entity and designed to inspire people, in order to keep people perfecting themselves, those who knowledgeable in the Bible Scriptures, and to grow spiritually in Christ. How then a person who just visits a church for the first time, who has a minimal or no knowledge of the Bible and practically no understanding of its Scriptures can be “inspired” without knowing the Holy Book? Practically in every church I ever been, ¾ of the service dedicated to songs, some other entertainment, announcements, and the last part to preaching, and even that part often sounds confusing, pastors jumping all over different subjects, many pompous words, and has no meaningful context and no point made, just meaningless theology. 2Peter 2.18 18.For they speak bombastic nonsense and with licentious desires of the flesh they entice people who have just escaped from those who live in error. (NRSV). Some churches conduct morning Bible study before major sermon, but this is hardly can be called as “study.” Many churches using their corporate booklets there the questions and answers and explanation already given. This form of study looks like a bull with the nose ring and wherever the master of the bull pull the ring the bull follows his master, or just like a train on its rails. In such “study” there is no deep though or essence given of the Word of GOD, it just like a boy who stuck in the first grade for life. Real education in such traditional format of the church is completely absent. And no wonder, how then the church itself, that have not much to give to others except monotony and meaningless of theology, can actually attract and welcome those whose knowledge and understanding of the Bible at its minimum? Is it not the Paul who had rebuked church members of being passive and be still “infants” in Christ, means that they have no spiritual growth themselves? 1Corinthians 3.1-2 1.And so brothers and sisters I could not speak to you as spiritual people, but rather as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2.I fed you with milk not solid food, you were not ready for solid food. Even now you are still not ready. 2Timothy 3.7 7.Always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Hebrews 5.12-14 12.Though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic elements of the Oracles of GOD. You need milk, not solid food, 13.everyone who lives on milk being still an infant is unskilled in the Word of Righteousness. 14.But solid food is for mature, for those whose faculties have been trained by practice to distinguish good from evil. So according to these passages it seems like the problem lies with the pastors and the hierarchy of the church. They are not able to teach and give good education to those who are coming to the church. True education in the church does not exist, only inspirational preaching conducted, which of course any newcomer does not understand. And this is why people coming in and going out of the church and never returned back. For a newcomer church’s preaching like Chinese into their ears. In the churches, in which the education of the Bible is absent, there is neither knowledge nor understanding of GOD. Above all, far not everyone who wants to be a pastor shall teach. James 3.1 1.Not many of you should become teachers my brothers and sisters, you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. And so let it be!

To Jen. I think you do not properly understand Matthew 5.32. You do not automatically become adulterers if your husband divorced you, you will become adulterers if after your divorce you will remarry, but for now, as long as you remain single, you are not adulterers. Words “makes her commit adultery” means that by divorcing his wife man give his ex-wife opportunity to marry another man or simply get lose, and by this he makes her commit adultery. It is also very important who divorced whom, because the guilt of divorce will remain on the party who initiated divorce first. Divorce does not recognized by GOD as legitimate action, even more He hate divorce. Malachi 2.16 16."I have hate divorce" (Deuteronomy 24.1-4), says the Lord, the GOD of Israel, 'And him who covers his garment with wrong,' says the Lord of hosts. So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously. Matthew 19.5-6 5.and said, "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?" (Genesis 2.24) 6.So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what GOD has joined together, let no one separate.” Some people referring to the Divorce Letter allowed by Moses in order to make their own divorce legitimate and justifiable. Matthew 19.7-11 7.They said to Him, “Why then Moses command us to give a Certificate of Dismissal and to divorce her?” (Deuteronomy 24.1-4) (Matthew 5.31, 19.3-7-8-12) (Mark 10.2-4-5-12) 8.He said to them, “It was because you were so hard-hearted that Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9.And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastely (unfaithfulness, adultery), and marries another, commits adultery.” So this means, that if someone considered himself or herself “hard-hearted” as Jesus pointed out, and divorces his or her spouse, and remain unmarried and does not having any sexual relation with another person, but remain single, may not sinned, but using the only option given by Moses. From the Christian point of view such person who divorces his or her spouse deal TREACHEROUSLY (Malachi 2.16) against him or her, and TREACHURY is not a part of Christian character and personality, and by this such person forfeits and defiled his /her own faith and salvation, because those who betrayal another person, much more husband or wife, most likely will not enter the Kingdom of GOD, because treachery and betrayal are serious offenses not only against any human being but against GOD Himself and against His Statute, as indicated in Matthew 19.5-6. If your husband divorced you, he cannot remarry even on the widow, the only chance he had is to get back to you. You on the other hand also cannot remarry, because your husband is still alive. If divorce was initiated by you, same rule applies and for you. 10.His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” 11.But He said to them, “Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given.” There are also certain rules for those who are Christian and marry non-Christian, but I think this does not applies to you. Read carefully these verses below, it will make you better understand divorce and remarriage among Christians. Marriage to Divorcee: (Deuteronomy 24.4) (Jeremiah 3.1) (Malachi 2.13-16) (Matthew 5.31-32, 19.3-9-12) (Luke 16.18) (1Corinthians 7.1-10-17.25-39-40) (Romans 7.3). Hebrews 13.4 4.Let marriage be held in honor by all, and let the marriage be kept undefined, GOD will judge fornications and adulterers.

I do not understand the caricature you presented, is it suppose to be funny? Bible contains rich information about treachery, deceit, treason, disloyalty and betrayal, and when we referring to these negative qualities of our character and personality, we often mentioning Judas Iscariot in relation to betrayal. But it was another betrayal which is has its own outcome and bitter results. And in this thread I would like to explore the treachery of David, and not because for that he had done with Bathsheba and Uriah the Hittite which we all very well know, but to explore the consequences of his actions and the domino effect on other people and their families who associated and played a part in that story. So the purpose and the point I would like to make here in this thread that no matter how some of us can “fly” high, we still can fall to the bottom, and such hypocritical statements as, “True Christians do not sin” or “Whoever saved is saved” and other like them are completely false, meaningless, and worthless statements of individuals and the church can be disproved by pointing out to the most dedicated and faithful to GOD personalities of the Bible, who were so close to GOD like no one else, but still tumble deep into transgression despite their very high standing before GOD. David when he had affair with Bathsheba and killed her husband, betrayed not only the Lord in these actions, but also his closer adviser and perhaps one of the closest friends and destroyed his family. When prophet Nathan approached David and told him everything that he had done and what the Lord GOD will do to him for his evil deeds, David said to the prophet, "I have sinned against the Lord," and David certainly thought that he would die, and even before David said another word, prophet Nathan, almost like he actually read the thoughts and mind of David, told him immediately that he would not die, the Lord GOD forgave him his sins, right on the spot, before even David asked for forgiveness. (2Samuel 12.9-14.19) Forgiveness of GOD came to David quickly, but GOD did not leave him unpunished, David paid dearly for his sins. 1Kings 15.4-5 4.But for David's sake, the Lord his GOD gave him a lamp in Jerusalem, to rise up his son after him and to establish Jerusalem, 5.because David did what was right in the sight of the Lord and had not turned aside from anything that He commanded him all the days of his life, except in the case of Uriah the Hittite. When David’s son Absalom rebelled against his father and established himself as a king in Jerusalem and David with his men fled from Absalom, certain David’s men and officials turned on the side of David’s son against him, and among them was David’s best adviser Ahithophel ("brother of folly"). When David heard that Ahithophel was among the conspirators against him, he immediately prayed to the Lord to turn Ahithophel’s advise into foolishness (2Samuel 15.31), because advise of Ahithophel always was so good that it was even compared to advise of the GOD Himself. (2Samuel 16.23) But why such smart and intelligent man like Ahithophel would take the side of conspirators against David? What David has done to him so bad, and why Ahithophel was unhappy with David? In order to answer these questions we have to look at the genealogy of major players in this story. We know that Bathsheba was the wife of Uriah Hittite, but who was the Bathsheba herself? She was the daughter of Eliam (or Amiel in some Bibles) 2Samuel 11.3. But who was the Eliam-Amiel? He was the son of Ahithophel (2Samuel 23.34). Special thanks to Zodhiates, one of the best scholar I know so far, the editor of KSB Bible. He is very good with genealogies, which is my weakest point, and when I looked at the reference he provided, everything about relation between David and Ahithophel came to me clear. Now we know why Ahithophel betrayed David and turned on the side of his enemies, because David betrayed him by defile his granddaughter Bathsheba and by killing her husband Uriah. Another word, David destroyed the family of Ahithophel. David betrayed his closest adviser and perhaps one of the best friends besides Jonathan the son of Saul who perished with his father in the battle with Philistines some time before this accident. And so, about whom David wrote this Psalm? Who was such friend of David? Not necessary Ahithophel, but it is a reasonable possibility. Psalm of David 55.12-14.20-21 12.It is not enemies who taunt me, I could bear that, it is not adversaries who deal insolently with me, I could hide from them. 13.But it is you, my equal, my companion, my familiar friend, 14.with whom I kept pleasant company, we walked in the House of GOD with the throng (crowd, multitude). 20.My companion laid hands on a friend and violated a covenant with me, 21.with speech smoother than butter, but with a heart set on war, with words that were softer than oil, but in fact were drawn swords. Did David know who actually Bathsheba was when he saw her and sent to find out who she was? Most likely he knew, it was reported to him that she is the daughter of Eliam-Amiel (2Samuel 11.3). Did David know who was the Eliam-Amiel the father of Bathsheba? This question is impossible to answer, because no clues or any kind of reference is given about it. But we may assume that he knew who was Eliam-Amiel, because who would not know the family, or at least a son or a daughter of the closest adviser, right-hand man, or his own best friend? If David knew who Eliam-Amiel was and still moved forward to have Bathsheba, this is very wicked deed on his part and pure betrayal of trust and friendship of his closest man Ahithophel. But if did not know who was Eliam-Amiel, it looks a little strange, but in this case his betrayal of Ahithophel does not look so severe, because if he knew, he would probably stop his advances toward Bathsheba. And this is why Ahithophel betrayed David and decided to take revenge on him for destroying his family. So now we have score: David : 2, Ahithophel : 0. In order to make even with David, first priority of Ahithophel was to defile all concubines of David in front of all Israel and Judah. And on advice of Ahithophel Absalom went to David’s concubines in the sight of all people of Israel and Judah. So just like David defiled Bathsheba in secret, so the David’s concubines were defiled in public. Such outcome for those who do iniquities in secret, also was predicted by Christ Who declared it in one of His speeches that things done in secret will be known to all (Matthew 10.26) (Mark 4.22) (Luke 8.17, 12.2-3). So now we have score: David : 2, Ahitophel : 1. Now Ahithophel planning another revenge on David to make the score even, to take his life, just like he took the life of Uriah the Hittite, the husband of Bathsheba. But it was not in the plans of GOD to kill David, and GOD did not turn advise of Ahithophel into foolishness as David asked Him about (2Samuel 15.31), but the Lord turned into foolishness the decision of Absalom and his advisers, and they chose the wrong advise. Ordinary speaking, if they would took the Ahitophel’s advice, David certainly will be dead in the matter of hours. When Ahithophel saw what was happen and his advised was not taken and ignored, he knew that now he has no chance of survival, to make even with David, no less receive a pardon from him. So he went home, put his house in order, and hanged himself. It is a very tragic end for him and for his entire family who already suffered enough. Truly, I feel sorry for this man. Some other questions in this story still remain unanswered, such as, “Does the sexual relation of David and Bathsheba was consensual or not?” Could she resist David’s advances or she willingly consented and gave up herself to him? I think she had a chance to walk away, or if have been forced, to yell and scream and run out of the palace if she could wanted it. And I am positive and sure about that David would not pursue her or try to physically force her and rape her, because this locomotion would be heard and known to all David’s servants in his palace. So the point here is to draw a certain lesson and conclusion from this affair, and not to think about self too much in terms of faithfulness and loyalty to GOD, because temptation of any sort can come suddenly and silently and very forcefully, and take away us without even been noticed by us, but the consequences and results of such temptation will be very bitter and painful for life. And remember, GOD forgave David his transgression, but He did not leave him unpunished, this means that often punishment comes before forgiveness, and absolutely no hope to escape the justice of GOD.

Simialre thing happen to me in the Solid Rock church in New Jersey a short while ago. When I first time walk in into the church, none of the church clergy or any members asked me about my believes, or how strong my faith is, or how long I was a Christian, or any other similar questions that would give them some perception about my personality believes, and Christian standing. But immediately they started treat me as a newcomer in Christ and their major goal and the end of every sermon to make someone come to the altar and make repentance, prayer, confession, burst in tears, or anything else like it, in order to declare and to show the public another “saved” person and take credit for it, and their eyes was constantly on me. They done it exactly as you described in your post, but I purposely stand still and did not move an inch, never raise my hand for anything they asked, or give them any gesture or clue that I need or wanted perform their ritual. This was going on for at leas 4 months, every Sunday, they asked people to raise their hands who are not saved or those who are not sure about their salvation and come to the altar, and they look at me and expected me to come forward, and for this I really started despising them all. If a t least they would give a good deep thought sermon and teach the truth of the Bible and not their own doctrines and traditions, I would stay in the church at perhaps would tolerate their theatrical play of confession in public, but because they done nothing of that is good, educational, or anything useful for the soul, I quit visiting them, they are completely worthless.

Mark 1.3 3.The voice of one crying in the wilderness, 'Make ready the way of the Lord, make His paths straight." (Isaiah 40.3-4) (Malachi 3.1, 4.5) (Matthew 3.1-3-17, 11.10-14, 17.3.10-12-13) (Mark 1.2-3-14, 9.4.11-12-13) (Luke 1.17.76, 3.2-5-18, 7.24-27-28) (John 1.6-8.15-23-40) Not much has been change since Jesus’ time. Before Him was SPIRITUAL DESERT in the hearts of men, during His time was SPIRITUAL DESERT in the hearts of men, and after Him this SPIRITUAL DSERT continue to exist up to our days, and most likely will exist for a long time until second coming of Christ. People will not visit the church if church will start give people the hard stuff of the Bible there the conditions, obligations, and requirements are expected from every true believer in Christ. Entire Church hierarchy and pastors who are on the payroll of the church preferred give people things they like to hear, pleasant things, like guarantied salvation if they only believe in Christ, and nothing else is required, and that people really enjoy and wanted, no any effort needed, we are already “saved”. Indeed, if you already saved why bother to do all the hard stuff, and works that Jesus required from us in order to prove our faith in Him? Believing is enough, and you already saved and reserved your place in Heaven ahead of time, and nothing really left to do, except sit and wait for Christ until He come and gently take us to Heaven. And corrupt and greedy church teaches people that stuff every Sunday. 2Timothy 4.3-4 3.The prime time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4.and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths. And assured “salvation” based on believing in Christ alone is the greatest one of these myths of the church. And no wonder that knowledge and understanding of the Bible at its lowest point practically in every church, and people do not understand even the simplest passages of the Bible, because they stuck in the “first grade” for life, just like that teaching they are receiving. 1Corinthians 3.1-2 1.And so brothers and sisters I could not speak to you as spiritual people, but rather as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2.I fed you with milk not solid food, you were not ready for solid food. Even now you are still not ready, Hebrews 5.12-14 12.Though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic elements of the Oracles of GOD. You need milk, not solid food, 13.everyone who lives on milk being still an infant is unskilled in the Word of Righteousness. 14.But solid food is for mature, for those whose faculties have been trained by practice to distinguish good from evil How possible under such condition to change SPIRITUAL DESERT into SPIRITUAL OASIS of the GARDEN? Actually such possibility exists. People who quit the church and stop supporting hypocrites and greedy clergy of the church and established their own home churches and small groups can easily escape SPIRITUAL DESERT of the church, and enhance and improve own spiritually by deep study of the Bible with people of similar intentions. Because all pastors are HIRERLINGS, they are paid to do their work, and they do not care for the flock given to them, they major motivation is to profit from their flock. Jesus also issued similar warning: John 10.1-12-13-16 12.He who is a hireling (hired man) and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13.He flees because he is a hireling and is not concerned about the sheep.

GOD DOES NOT BELIEVE IN ATHEISTS THEREFORE ATHEISTS DO NOT EXIST Pastor Sonny Manuel

To Wayne. Not by only slogans and cliché’s alone man lives, but by every Word and Commandment that comes from the mouth of GOD.

To Gary. You asked me: “Are you saved or lost?” Only GOD knows who are saved and who are lost, but for everyone who are still alive the only concentration and a goal in life should be to achieve spiritual growth in Christ,, to obey all the Commandments of the Lord, to follow Him and to love Him, and then He will decide then time is right whom to save and whom to reject, give the Lord the judgment and not to yourself. This is not up to you or to anybody else to proclaim yourself to be already saved, claiming this you are claiming that you already righteous enough and deserves salvation, without knowing what really GOD thinks of you. In other words, you and others who think like you, trying to enter the Kingdom of GOD through a window and not through the Door. You expecting from GOD to give salvation, but what you give to GOD in order to have it? You will give Him you “believe” in Him, based on what? You perhaps will say, “Oh, salvation is the free gift” as it written in the Scripture, but this is not the salvation a free gift, it is the Jesus Christ the free Gift that given to as from GOD Father as the Sacrifice for our sins, because we have nothing to offer to the Lord for our iniqities. Your next question was: “Are you one of the few of the many truly worthy and deserving, because of your work?” Where you can see in my post I mention the works as precondition for salvation? Or you assume that all CONDITIONS I mentioned so far are actually works? Have you ever seen the difference between SPIRITUAL CONDITIONS, and actual physical works of faith? Following CONDITIONS of GOD proves our obedience and love for Him as His followers. Doing physical works such as charity and all kinds of help to those who in need, proves our FAITH in Him, or you never heard that FIATH without WORKS is DEAD? James 2.14-18 14.What use is it my brethren, if a man says he has faith, but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15.If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16.and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled", and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is what? 17.Even so faith, if it has no works is dead by itself. 18.But someone may well say, "You have faith, and I have works, show me your faith without works, and I will show you my faith by my works." 20.But are you willing to recognize you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? 21.Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? 22.You see, that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfect, 23.and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "And Abraham believed GOD, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness" (Genesis 15.6) (Romans 4.3) (Galatians 3.6) (James 2.23), and he was called the friend of GOD. (2Chronicles 20.7) (Isaiah 41.8) (James 2.23) 24.You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25.And in the same way was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works, when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? (Joshua 2.1-21, 6.22-25) (Matthew 1.5) 26.Just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. Amen! You stated: “I’m very glad GOD doesn’t give me what I truly deserve.” You already jump over and the judgment of GOD. He will surely give you what you deserve, but this is the matter of time. Psalm of David 62.12 12.and steadfast love belongs to You O Lord. You repay to all according to their work. Ezekiel 34.16-17.20-22 16."I will seek the lost and will bring back the strayed and I will bind up the injured and I will strengthen the weak, but the fat and strong I will destroy, I will feed them with justice. 17.And as for you My flock, this says the Lord GOD: I will judge between one sheep and another, between the rams and the male goats. 20.Therefore, thus says the Lord GOD to them: I Myself will judge between the fat sheep and the lean sheep. 21.Because you pushed with flank and shoulder and butted at all the weak animals with your horns, until you scattered them far and wide. 22.I will save My flock and they shall no longer be ravaged, and I will judge between sheep and sheep." Matthew 16.27 27."For the Son of man is to come with His angels in the glory of His Father (Daniel 7.13) (Matthew 16.27, 24.30, 26.64) (Mark 13.26-27, 14.62) (Luke 21.27) (Revelation 1.7, 14.14), and then He will repay everyone for what has been done." Psalm of David 50.21 21."These things you have done and I have been silent, you thought that I was One just like yourself. But now I rebuke you and lay the charge before you." John 5.22.24 22."The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 24.Very truly I tell you, anyone who hears My Word and BELIEVES Him Who sent Me, has Eternal Life, and does not come under judgment, but has passed from death to Life. BELIEVEING in GOD is one of the many Conditions that required for salvation, and do not assume that verse 24 is in your favor, it is not, because you do not understand the word “BELIEVE.” BELIEVEING in GOD does not mean believing in His existence only. BELIEVEING in GOD means BELIEVING in His Word, in His Statutes, and in His Commandments, and in His CONDITIONS He had set for humankind in order to receive forgiveness and salvation. And if you BELIEVE in GOD’S Word, you of course shall and live according to His Word and obey His Word, and this is a major CONDITION TO RECEIVE SALVATION. GOD announced 6 statutes from the 10 Commandments to the young rich man, which were enough for that young man to be saved and inherit eternal life. See, GOD did not told him, “Believe in Me,” but told only 6 Commandments, because if the young man fulfill these Commandments, this means that he had believed in them, and subsequently believed in GOD Who issued those Commandments, and that is the meaning of the word “BELIEVE,” means believing in the Word and fulfilled it. And if you BELIEVE in GOD just like that young man believed, then you may have HOPE that if you will continue BELIEVEING like that young man, you may avoid the judgment of GOD and pass from death to life. So, good luck. But not only Christian BELIEVE in GOD, and demons BELIEVE AS WELL! And not only they BELIEVE but they also know that Jesus is the Son of GOD, and they also know that He is the Messiah, and they also know that He Sacrificed Himself for the sake of humanity, just like you BELIEVE, so here a question, what the difference then between you and them? Can you guys answer this question? James 2.19 19.You believe that GOD is One, you do well, the demons also believe and shudder. (Demons know the Christ - (Mark 1.34) (Luke 4.41) (James 2.19) And according to this verse I have to give some extra credit to demons, because they are not only BELIEVE, but also SHUDDER, means FEAR the Lord, which is not always can be said about Christians! So, if you cover yourself with only “Believing” and with nothing else from the Word of GOD, and expecting to be saved, how much the difference then between you and the demons who believe in GOD just like you BELIEVE, and do not follow CONDITIONS just like you do?

To Shiloh and to others who are already “saved” or "saved" themselves. In your post you put everything up-side-down, literally on its head. You put salvation first and declared that the CONDITIONS such as: LOVE, FAITH, COMPASSION, MERCY, FORGIVENESS, RIGHTEOUSNESS, HONESTY, HUMBLENESS, FEAR, OBEDIENCE, KNOWLEDGE OF GOD, and many other like these, all of which not only the qualities of GOD, but also required to be the qualities of human beings, according to you, are result of salvation? If we saved first without any effort on our part, why we need all these qualities to possess? In your case, we can be as bad as we possibly are and still will be saved. It sounds to me completely delusional and does not make any sense. You, and all of those who think like you, preferred the easy way to Heaven, and like many who do not believe that is great effort required to achieve personal salvation, and those who do not believe in Hell, and all those who already considered themselves to be saved, while done nothing for their own salvation and live they lives as everybody else on this Earth, all of you always misinterpreting the Bible in the way you like it and wanted to see. You wrote that sacrifice of Christ guarantied your salvation and you are already saved, I have to disappoint you, because Sacrifice of Christ guarantied absolutely nothing! Sacrifice of Christ just a Sacrifice presented to the GOD Father for our sins. Sacrifice of Christ has no power to save, because forgiveness and salvation comes only from One Who receives this Great Sacrifice of Christ, and He is the One Who forgives and saves, as it was done in the past with sacrificial animals. And if a person a sinner and remains in his or her sins, and did not live up to the qualities and CONDITIONS mentioned above, no matter how much often he or she goes to the church and no matter how much he or she prays, pretending to be a true Christian, the Sacrifice of Christ has no effect on such people and they will bear their own sins and die in them, similar to that was in the past, if a wicked will bring animal sacrifice to GOD according to all the rules and regulations, but without repentance and change of behavior, his sacrifice would not be accepted by GOD. So you can cover yourself with Sacrifice of Jesus Christ as much as you want, but if you lack even one of those CONDITIONS mentioned above, you personal salvation in serious jeopardy. Because of it GOD says: Hosea 6.6 6."I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of GOD rather than burnt offerings." Look, GOD required and set up SPIRITUAL CONDITIONS for all human beings AS FIRST requirement. GOD never meant, “I save you first, and then will wait until you become good enough.” Romans 2.5-6 5.But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of GOD, 6.Who will render to every man according to his deeds. While those who obey the Lord and follow His Commandments may pass the judgment of GOD, and go straight to Haven, for majority of the people it is not the case. Judgment comes first before forgiveness and salvation. Proverbs 28.13 13.No one who conceals transgression will prosper, but one who CONFESSES and FORSAKES them will obtain Mercy. Confession and forsaking ungodly deeds also comes first, because on these CONDITIONS one can receive mercy from GOD. Luke 20.33-36 34.Jesus said to them, “Those who belong to this age, marry and are given in marriage, 35.but those who are considered worthy of a place in that age and in the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage. 36.Indeed, they cannot die anymore, because they are like angels, and are children of GOD, being children of the resurrection.” We have to be WORTHY of GOD’S mercy, forgiveness, and salvation, all those who unworthy cannot be saved. This means we must have all those qualities mentioned above to be worthy of Christ’s Sacrifice, and of GOD’S Mercy, Forgiveness, and Salvation. Here WORTHY is a CONDITION that summarizes in itself all those CONDITIONS mentioned above. Matthew 5.20 20.”I tell you, unless your RIGHTEOUSNESS exceeds that one of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven.” You must have a certain level of CONDITION call RITHEOUSNESS, otherwise the Kingdom of GOD may be not for you. You can pretend to be anything you want and declare yourself being already in Heaven, but without RIGHTEOUSNESS no one can be saved. Nothing unclean and UNRIGHTEOUSS will never enter the Kingdom of GOD. Matthew 7.13-14.21-23 13.Enter through the narrow gate, the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it. 14.The gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it. 21.Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only the one WHO DOES THE WILL of My Father in Heaven. 22.On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?’ 23.Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you, go away from me you evildoers.’ OBEDIENCE to GOD’S commands and statutes is another very important CONDITION that GOD set up for us. Announcing yourself to be already saved you chose the easy way, and easy way leads to destruction of the soul, and there are many who take it, because in order to obtain salvation you have to chose the hard way, means to do and to live according to the principals, ideals, and all statutes of GOD, according to CONDITIONS he had set for us. 2Corinthinas 10.18 18.For, not he who commends himself is approved, but whom the Lord commends. So you already commended yourself, wait until the Lord commends you.

To Yowm This is exactly that I have expecting from you, you did not answer my question Yowm. Just like I pointed out in the beginning of my first post that many people prefer general terminology in order to convince themselves that they are saved, and at the same time ignoring conditions on which the general terminology is based, you done exactly as I described it. Romans 5.8-11 reveal only basis on which salvation is based, on Death and Blood of Jesus Christ Who died for all without exception, but it does not mean that everybody will be saved. Again, this is just a general description of how salvation works, and is also COMPLETELY CONDITIONAL! 1Corinthians 11.26-32 26.As often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death, until He comes. 27.Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the Body and the Blood of the Lord. 28.But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29.He who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge (properly understand) the Body (the Body of Christ) rightly. 30.For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. (sleep - KSB, Gideons, "and a number died" - NRSV, GNB, Russian) 31.But if we judged ourselves rightly, we should not be judged (judged by GOD). 32.But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord, in order that we may not be condemned along with the world. Take a closer look Yowm at the condition applied in 1Corinthians. The CONDITION is to be worthy of the Body and Blood of Christ, means to be spiritually and morally clean according to the Statutes of GOD. If people are not spiritually and morally clean, they became GUILTY against Body and Blood of Christ under any CONDITIONS, and because of it: “many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep” means dying. So, the point is that Death and Blood of Christ do not cover all automatically without exception, but require CONDITION under which it will work only for those who are spiritually and morally clean before GOD and obey Him. Obedience to the Lord is one of the major CONDITIONS out of many to be acceptable by GOD. Proverbs 28.9 9.When one will not listen to the Law, even one's prayers are an abomination. Absolutely everything that GOD ever presented is CONDITIONAL, and if a person does not obey the Laws of GOD, the Death of Christ and His Blood would not help him at all and would have no effect on him, and worst of all, even his prayer will be repugnant and abomination to the Lord! To Sojourner. You wrote that you have two for me, sir, with all due respect, you have nothing for me. You done the same thing as Yowm did, you gave me just general terminology and no concrete verse or statement that will prove that something in GOD’S Statutes is unconditional. You randomly choose verses of the Bible that which even not slightly relate to the subject of our discussion. Same tactic usually done by those who are not able to give correct answer on the question asked, and instead trying to come up with anything or make something up, in order to confuse and to avoid straight and honest answer. According to that you wrote, of course, GOD will never desert and forsake UNDER CONDITION those who love and obey Him, but He certainly will desert and forsake those who despise and disobey Him. Deuteronomy 8.20 Punishment for disobedience 20.Like the nations that the Lord is destroying before you so shall you perish, because you would not obey the voice of the Lord, your GOD.” (CONDITION HERE IS OBEDIENCE, without this CONDITION all will perish). John 3.36 From author 36.Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure GOD’S wrath. To Ephesians 5.6 6.Let no one deceive you with empty words, because of these things the wrath of GOD comes on those who are disobedient. Second Thessalonians 1.7-8 7.and to give relief to the afflicted as well as for us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels, 8.in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know GOD and on those who do not obey the Gospel of our Lord Jesus. To Hebrews 4.6 Salvation’s door is still open but many did not enter because of disobedience to the Lord 6.Since therefore it remains open for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the Good News failed to enter, because of disobedience, First Peter 4.17-18 17.The time has come for judgment to begin with the household of GOD, if it begins with us, what will be the end for those who do not obey the Gospel of GOD? 18.And: ‘If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinners?’ (Proverbs 11.31) I found so many identical verses that I cannot possibly write them here. See also (Romans 5.19). To Willa Thank you very much to prove my point concerning CONDITIONS of the general terminologies! First of all, according to that you wrote, I see that Grace of GOD revealed for us not in His complete forgiveness and salvation to all without exception, but His Grace revealed to us in His Sacrificial Lamb Jesus Christ Whom He gave to us as our Sacrifice to Him. Because without giving sacrifice to GOD there is no forgiveness or salvation. Each time we pray to GOD because of our sins we offering Jesus as our Sacrificial Lamb to Him. We, as humanity, crucified Him, Jesus Christ, and by such action we gave to GOD Father the most precious Sacrifice ever, Jesus Christ for forgiveness of our sins. That is the Grace of GOD. Second, you wrote: “We are saved by Grace (Jesus Christ) through faith.” Thank you very much, excellent point Willa! Words “through faith” describe CONDITION which indicates that without Faith we cannot be forgiven and be saved. Faith is another CONTION beside OBEDIENCE to the Lord, without which we cannot receive forgiveness nor salvation. But for the rest of you I do not want go any further, you all prove nothing and gave me only general slogans of the Bible and nothing else, because you have nothing to say and cannot find anything that would prove your point of view.

To Yowm. You wrote: “His promises are unconditional.” Show me one.

SAVED OR NOT SAVED. This is the most discussed topic in Baptist churches, and generally among Christians. Of course everybody wanting to be saved, and assumes that is saved. But no one pay attention and give good thoughts that everything what the Lord GOD ever promised and said is conditional and required certain attitude and strong will of the soul. On our part, there are not in position to impose our conditions under which we can deal with the Lord. Our faith, dedication, and love for the Lord are must be unconditional, and everything whatever relate to our worship, service, work, and life in the Lord are all unconditional elements, purely based on love and faith for our GOD. And so, if all Lord’s promises are conditional, and they are, up to the last one, and so is His Self-sacrifice and His forgiveness, and His salvation, all of them, are all conditional. Despite the fact that all general slogans and terminologies of the Bible proclaim Sacrifice of Christ and salvation as “free gift” and in many other variations like: “Believe and be saved”, “We saved by the Mercy of GOD”, “Salvation is the free Gift”, “We saved by the name of Christ”, “Saved through the Grace of Christ”, and so on, they are all designed to give only very general idea indicating that only through Jesus Christ, through His Sacrifice, we are truly saved, but these are only general terminologies. Behind every general terminology always stand conditions, requirements, regulations, and obligations. Bible includes all sorts of conditions, obligations, duties, requirements, and responsibilities, in order to achieve salvation, because according to all those requirements, salvation cannot be achieve without repentance, change of behavior, change of life, and without forgiveness from GOD. And for those who do not follow this conditional and required pattern and order of things as it often described in the Bible, on such people the Sacrifice and the Blood of Christ have no effect. While many hypocrites, very naïve folks, and people without understanding and knowledge of the Bible claimed that they are already saved, and even know when they are had been saved, they claimed this nonsense without any slightest idea that the Sacrifice of Christ actually means. By believing only in general slogans, because what the Lord GOD said so concerning salvation, they think that it applies to all who are worthy and who are not, ignoring and missing one important fact that only few out of many are truly worthy and deserved the Lord’s Sacrifice, and also His forgiveness, and His salvation. The road to salvation is not easy and is not based on the promise of GOD alone because they are all conditional, but depends on the conditions and requirements that go with salvation as its undetached part. Example of how people achieve forgiveness and salvation from GOD are many in the Bible, and they are different from one another, which means that each and every one of us has his/her own way, route, and path of achieving the goal of salvation, and such path is not the same for everyone. Fear of the Lord based on the Word of GOD is required for the Salvation of the soul. Psalms 85.9 (of Asaph) 9.Surely His salvation is at hand for those who fear Him that His glory may dwell in our land. To Love the Lord by obeying Him is required for the Salvation of the soul. Psalms 91.14 14.”Those who love Me I will deliver. I will protect those who know My name. Maintain Justice and do what is Right, keep the Sabbath, and refrain from doing Evil, all these are required for the Salvation of the soul. Isaiah 56.1-2 1.Thus says the Lord: Maintain Justice and do what is Right, soon My salvation will come and My deliverance be revealed. 2.Happy is the mortal who does this, the one who holds it fast, who keeps the Sabbath, not profaning it, and refrains from doing any Evil. Seek the Lord by studying and obeying His Commandments, seek His Righteousness, and seek own humility, in order to avoid the wrath of the Lord and be saved. Zephaniah 2.3 3.Seek the Lord all you humble of the land who do His commands, seek righteousness, seek humility, perhaps you may be hidden on the day of the Lord's wrath. Philippians 2.12-18 12.So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13.for, it is GOD Who is at work in you, both, to will and to work for His good pleasure. For some people conditions are much more extreme in order to be saved. Matthew 19.29 29.”And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for My name’s sake, will receive a hundredfold, and will inherit eternal life.” Luke 18.29-30 29.And He said to them, “Truly I tell you, there is no one who was left house or wife or brother or parents or children for the sake of the Kingdom of GOD, 30.who will not get back very much more in this age and in the age to come, eternal life Obedience to GOD as one of the important requirements of Salvation. To Hebrews 5.9 9.and having been made perfect He became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey Him, Matthew 7.13-14.21 13.”Enter through the narrow gate, the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it. 14.The gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it. 21.Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only the one who does the will of My Father in Heaven.” And here I presented only few out many identical and similar passages of the Bible that cannot be ignored. And of course the conversation between Jesus and young rich man also cannot be ignored or overlooked. When young rich man asked Jesus what he has to do in order to inherit eternal life, Jesus gave him only 6 statutes out of 10 Commandment, and when young man said that he had done all of them from his youth, Jesus did not argued with him about it, because young man told Him the truth, and Jesus knew it and changed the subject. So this is clearly revealed that beside all mentioned above statements about salvation, for some people salvation comes in form of only 10 statutes from 10 Commandments, and nothing else. Mark 10.17.19 17.And as He was setting out on journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and began asking Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" (Matthew 19.16-30) (Luke 18.18-30) (Similar question was asked in Luke 10.25) 19.You know the Commandments: Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness (Exodus 20.13-16) (Deuteronomy 5.17-20), do not defraud, honor your father and mother." (Exodus 20.12) (Deuteronomy 5.16) (Verse 19. Commandments of the Lord give Life: (Leviticus 18.5) (Deuteronomy 8.3) (Nehemiah 9.29) (Psalm 119.93) (Ezekiel 20.11.13) (Matthew 4.4, 19.17) (Mark 10.19) (Luke 4.4, 10.25-28, 18.18-30) (John 12.49-50) 20.And he said to Him, "Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up." Interesting that Jesus did not told young man that only My Sacrifice will save you, or wait until I will be crucified, but only 6 commandments out of 10 was enough for this young man to be saved! So, all general slogans and general promises of salvation are right where it said that believing in GOD a man will be saved, no doubt about, but general slogan alone does not save a single soul without all those requirements, obligations, and conditions mentioned above that go together with the general promise. For example, GOD promised Israelites the land of Canaan, but far not all of them entered the land, and even such people as Moses and Aaron did not enter it, and we know why. Salvation come in many different forms and ways, and even when some is given to Devil for suffering, just to save his or her soul! First Corinthians 5.1.5 1.It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of kind that is not found even among pagans, a man is living with his father’s wife. 5.you are to hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit mat be saved in the day of the Lord. In order to understand the salvation, one must also understand what means Jesus as the Guilt Sacrifice. His Sacrifice means literally just like any other guilt (sin) sacrifice ever presented to the Lord for forgiveness of sins (Isaiah 53.10) (Romans 8.3) (Ephesians 5.2) (1John 4.10). And those who do not understand the Old Testament and have no sufficient knowledge of the Scriptures, they do not understand what the Guilt Sacrifice really means. It is not the guilt sacrifices that forgives and saves the soul of the person, but only One to Whom a sacrifice was presented. Sacrifice is just a presentation, a gift, an offering, and nothing more, sacrifice alone does not save any one, because the power of forgiveness and salvation lies in One Who receives the sacrifice. This means that a person shall be worthy of the Sacrifice of Christ as it described in all passages above, in order to present such Sacrifice to GOD. But if a person do live up to the standards and conditions and regulations established by GOD, and he or she is unworthy in the eyes of the Lord, the Sacrifice of Christ and His Holy Blood do not ascend to the Lord on behalf of such unworthy person, no matter how much he or she may pray. Just like every Hebrew who presented appropriate animals to the Lord for his sins has to be ritually and spiritually clean, and so everyone who present Jesus Christ to the Lord for own sins has to be spiritually clean, because GOD Father will never except Sacrifice of His Son from anyone who is not worthy of His Son’s Blood and death. And so those who claim to be saved, certainly jumping ahead of time, and do not examine their own worthiness to GOD. They foolishly declaring that they are already saved, creating for themselves illusion of their own salvation based on general terminology of the Bible, and already reserved for themselves a seat in Heaven without even knowing and by passing the opinion and decision of GOD concerning their own salvation. In other words, they already saved themselves without decision of the Lord! And many churches full of such fools, particularly Baptist churches, which teach that you have to know you salvation if you are really saved, and if a person does not convince itself that he or she is saved, according to all those liars who preach and teach such delusion, a person is not saved. And I know why they teach such thing, to please and to reassure people about their salvation and make them believe that they are saved, in order to take control over them and over their finances, and keep them in the church as long as possible. James 2.19 19.”You believe that GOD is One, you do well. Even the demons believe and shudder.”

To Melinda. Like many other denominations, the Catholics are not perfect, but one thing they do right, they established charities, hospitals, and all sorts of facilities for poor and sick. You not have to be a Catholic to participate in such humanitarian work, but only one thing you mush have is desire to spend the rest of your years doing something for the Lord and not for yourself or for your boss at work. If you cannot find humanitarian organization that serves the poor and sick in the name of the Lord, then you can join Catholics as well, and in this step it does not matter who are you by your denomination, but the most important thing is that finally you will do something and for Christ. Concerning seclusion from society or live life of the hermit in my point of view does not make any sense, what will be the use of such person for Christ? Jesus Christ did not went out from this world and hide Himself, but He came into this world in order to teach, to help, to convert world into GOD’S ways, to save, and the most important of all, to sacrifice Himself for the sins of humanity. So, look at Him and His disciples and His men who earlier or late, at one point in their lives dedicated themselves completely to GOD, went into the world and saved souls. Psalms 92.12-15 12.The righteous man will flourish like the palm tree, he will grow like a cedar in Lebanon. 13.Planted in the house of the Lord they will flourish in the courts of our GOD. 14.They will still yield fruit in old age, they shall be full of sap and very green, 15.to declare that the Lord is upright, He is my Rock and there is no unrighteousness in Him.