It is wrong collect Tithes

[Heart2Soul]

It is not wrong to collect tithes...as for those ministers who purpose in their heart to take for their own gain and not to profit the ministry then God will deal with him....but what is most important to consider is why does God Word mention tithing? Everything on earth belongs to Him...He isn't poor...He owns the cattle on a thousand hills....so why does His Word teach us to tithe? It is to store up in the warehouse for the dispersment at times of need....I would love for God to just rain down money from heaven every time there was a need that had to be met.....but He doesn't...How did the Jews build the Holy Temple? It wasn't free all that gold and stuff....the laborers had to be paid...

Also Tithing is tied in with reaping and sowing....and we are taught to give with a cheerful heart....

…6Consider this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7Each one should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not out of regret or compulsion. For God loves a cheerful giver. 8And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things, at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.…

People love to give to God...to the furtherance of the gospel...so for those who struggle with it then don't....God isn't a beggar or a thief...He won't take from you what you are not willing to give.

God Bless.

[Mike Mclees]

10 hours ago, Gary Lee said:

I do not understand your choice of scripture. What does this scripture have to do in replying to my post of, supporting a pastor, supporting a church, helping the poor and destitute? In other words, what are you saying, Mike? And may God bless you.

Nothing wrong about supporting your church and pastor. I thought you were defending your church in the way you past the plate of offerings and tithes. My issue was that in most cases you will not find the poor and destitute. in our modern-day traditional churches. This is not to say all. I ministered to the poor and homeless who went to the soup kitchens to eat every day but no one was feeding them the food that gives eternal life. I saw all the churches in our south west Florida communities that cared for no one but well to do retirees fancy cares and Sunday best. They  were not inviting the poor to sit amongst them. How could they . They past the plate that the poor could not give . You spoke well of you church, but go and visit your upscale churches and see If there are any of the poor there. I would say with a certainty you will not find them. For them their eyes won't see them nor would they dirty their hands. I wonder if it was that way in the early church. 

[Sower]

4 hours ago, Mike Mclees said:

Nothing wrong about supporting your church and pastor. I thought you were defending your church in the way you past the plate of offerings and tithes. My issue was that in most cases you will not find the poor and destitute. in our modern-day traditional churches. This is not to say all. I ministered to the poor and homeless who went to the soup kitchens to eat every day but no one was feeding them the food that gives eternal life. I saw all the churches in our south west Florida communities that cared for no one but well to do retirees fancy cares and Sunday best. They  were not inviting the poor to sit amongst them. How could they . They past the plate that the poor could not give . You spoke well of you church, but go and visit your upscale churches and see If there are any of the poor there. I would say with a certainty you will not find them. For them their eyes won't see them nor would they dirty their hands. I wonder if it was that way in the early church. 

I cannot testify as to the more affluent churches as to their programs for helping the poor. I do believe most of those churches obviously do not have an environment conducive for the poor to live in the "gated" neighborhoods, and would not be present. I understand any family wanting to provide a safe environment for the children and loved ones, as do I. Most of the poor and indigent live more in the city down town areas where the "Sam's ministries" and missions of which our church supports (and provides young student preachers), and places for community food clothing, and shelter. Logistics. We do get walk in needy families, and they are given our support. But I believe most poor that still have a sense of pride will not go into those large churches where everybody is wearing their 'Sunday best'  ( as I have been on occasion wearing jeans among  everybody in suits, and also felt 'out of place'). Natural.
God said the poor will always be with us. If you have dealt with the poor and needy then you realize the more you give, the more is expected. Yes, there are those who are going through a tough time and simply need a hand to get through it. But there are those who take advantage of the system, and create a life style of living off the charity of others. It's easy to give a dollar to the wayward girl at the intersection with a hand out  to ease your 'guilt' of being blessed, but, is she really needy for money, or needing  something else. If you have an answer on how a church may better deal with this I'm all ears.
I agree with you in part, that most of us are ill at ease when confronted with a fellow human whose appearance tells you they need help, but what are we willing to do. Slapping money, providing food/clothes is only temporary. It sounds to me Mike the Lord has laid this on your heart.  Pick out one of those fancy churches, knock on the door, and lay your burden at their feet. Don't ask for money, ask for involvement, concern. Who knows, as God is still sitting on the throne.

[Alex2165]

To Gary Lee.

You wrote: “Just curious. Do you support your pastor, or is he a tent maker type. Do you go (fellowship) to a group of believers, or a church? Your house or a friends. Who pays the bills? Do you believe all church pastors are crooks or most of them? And, where do you get all your facts? Just curious. God bless.”

I really do not like repeat myself over and over again, but to make it more efficient take a look at my answers to the posts named “Money.”

You asked “Do you support your pastor” Despite the fact that I always put my dollar on the collection plate I did it not do it for the pastor whose salary on average starts from $45.000, it seem to me that pastors already rich enough on their own and do need our help. I put my money for church maintenance and utility bills and no more than that. But recently I stop doing even that. On average even a small church collect about $10.000 a week, and there is plenty of money for them to care for the needs of the building, plus, church doesn’t even pay property taxes, so the church have much more in material things than it need.

 So, I would never give my money to the pastor as his salary, ALL PASTORS SHALL WORK WITH THEIR OWN HANDS TO PRIVIDE FOR THEMSELVES AND FOR THEIR FAMILIES WITH THEIR OWN LABOR!

And if they want to “work for GOD” and teach His Word just only for food as it was originally set by GOD for Levites and by Jesus Christ Himself, and not for money as a payment for their “work”, that would be acceptable too.

But if a pastor who is poor (sounds like a joke, is it?), then certainly I would help him financially or by other means, in whatever he actually need help, BUT I WOULD NOT PAY HIM HIS SALARY, otherwise I will break the principals of the Bible concerning giving the Word of GOD without charge, which many people (and as it seen in this forum) distorted for the sake of their own personal point of view, gain, and tradition of the church.

And again I will point to the Jesus Christ, His disciples, and particularly to Paul who was the best example of all apostles of Christ, who dedicated his whole life to teach and to spread the Word of GOD without benefiting himself materially, financially, or in any other way, but gave himself up without having anything in return, just like Jesus did, and just like apostles did, and just like all men of GOD did.

And again, I will submit the words of Paul in order to show that Paul never meant that the word “support” means “money,” but it means support by food, shelter, clothes, and anything else, but not by money.

You wrote: “or is he a tent maker type” Is anything wrong to be a tent maker and preach the TRUE GOSPEL?

You asked: “Do you go (fellowship) to a group of believers, or a church?” I do not., because  the pastors and all church hierarchy do not like independent point of view or anything that contradict their false doctrines. But I use social media and person to person conversation in order to reveal Gospel as it written and not as doctrines of the church teach.

You asked “Who pays the bills?” Did you read my post? Who paid the bills for repair of the Temple? (2Kings 12.1-15).

You asked “Do you believe all church pastors are crooks or most of them?” Whoever distorts the Word of GOD and unfairly and unjustly profits himself from the Gospel, in my eyes is a crook, no matter how nice and how sweet he or she can be, because I judge people not by their appearance and status but by their deeds. Anything that is not according to the Gospel is against the Gospel and is false in its substance and matter.

You asked “And, where do you get all your facts?” Read my fact below.

 

1Corinthians 9.1-14.18

1.I am not free? Am I not an Apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord?

2.If to others I am not an Apostle, and least I am to you, you are the seal of my Apostleship in the Lord.

Rewards for Apostleship.

3.My defense to those who examine me is this:

4.Do we not have a right to eat and drink?

5.Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the Apostles and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?

6.Or do only Barnabas and I not have a right to refrain from working?

7.Who at any time serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat the fruit of it? Or who tends a flock and does not use the milk of the flock?

8.I am not speaking these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things?

9.It is written in the Law of Moses, "You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing." (Deuteronomy 25.4). GOD is not concerned about oxen, is He?

10.Or is He speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, for our sake it was written, because the plowman ought to plow in hope, and the thresher to fresh in hope of sharing the crops.

11.If we sowed spiritual things in you, is it too much if we should reap material things from you? (means everything mentioned above, but no money as a salary for work).

12.If others share the right over you, do we not more? Nevertheless, we did not use this right, but we endure all things that we may cause no hindrance to the Gospel of Christ.

13.Do you not know that those who perform sacred services eat the food of the Temple, and those who attend regularly to the altar have their share with the altar?

14.So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the Gospel to get their living from Gospel (means to be supported by food. water, shelter, transportation, and other thing, but not by money as a salary). (Matthew 10.9-10) (Luke 10.7) (1Timothy 5.17-18)

18.What then is my reward? That when I preach the Gospel I may offer the Gospel without charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the Gospel.

Acts 20.34-35

34.You know for yourselves that I worked with my own hands to support myself and my companions.

35.In all this I have given you an example that by such work we must support the weak, remembering the words of the Lord Jesus He Himself said: “It is more blessed to give than to receive.”

 

Acts 28.30-31

30.He (Paul) lived there two whole years at his own expense and welcomed all who came to him,

31.proclaiming the kingdom of GOD and teaching about the Lord Jesus Christ with all boldness and without hindrance.

 

1Thessalonians 2.9

9.You recall brethren our labor and hardship, how working night and day, so as not to be a burden to any of you, we proclaimed to you the Gospel of GOD.

 

1Thessalonians 4.11-12

11.to aspire to live quietly, to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands as we directed you,

12.so that you may behave properly toward outsiders and be depended on no one.

 

2Thessalonians 3.7-12

7.You yourselves know how you ought to follow our example, because we did not act in an undisciplined manner among you,

8.nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with labor and hardship we kept working night and day, so that we might not be a burden to any of you,

9.not because we do not have the right to this, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you, that you might follow our example.

10.Even when we were with you, we used to give you this order, if anyone will not work, neither let him eat.

11.We hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies.

12.Now, such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ to work in quiet fashion, and eat their own bread.

 

1Corinthians 4.11-12

11.To this present hour we are both hungry and thirsty, and are poorly clothed, and are roughly treated, and are homeless,

12.and we toil working with our own hands, when we are reviled we bless, when we are persecuted we endure,

 

Luke 8.1-3

1.And it came about soon afterwards, that He began going about from one city and village to another, proclaiming and preaching the Kingdom of GOD, and the twelve were with Him.

2.And also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and sicknesses: Mary who was called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out, (Mark 16.9)

3.and Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others who were contributing to their support out of their private means.

And now I assume that you understand what the private means, means?

 

[Still Alive]

Tithing is an old testament thing. It supported a theocracy. The closest thing we have to it now is our income tax. Tithing is mentioned in the new testament, but only as part of a calling out of the teachers of the law and Pharisees. Check out Matthew 23:23. And notice it is past tense.

 

Christians are admonished to give, no tithe. For some of us it may be less than ten percent and for some it will be more. One old woman in the NT gave all she had and was commended. 

 

Go and do likewise.