ERROR OF TRANSUBSTANTIATION (1215 AD).

[Concretecamper]

On 5/6/2018 at 4:55 AM, KiwiChristian said:

ERROR OF TRANSUBSTANTIATION (1215 AD).

 

Definition: The whole substance of the bread and wine is converted into the actual and

real entire body and blood of Christ.

 

Answer: Radbertus first invented this doctrine in the 9th century. Catholics support this by a

literal view of Matthew 26:26-29. "Take eat; this is my body. For this is my blood of

the new testament which is shed for many for the remission of sins."

 

Consider these reasons why the bread and wine were symbols of Christ’s body and blood,

to be partaken in for remembrance purposes only, and that there was no material

conversion of the bread to the body, nor of the wine to the blood of Christ.

 

1. Jesus, after saying "this is my blood" in Matthew 26:28 also said "I will not drink

henceforth of this FRUIT OF THIS VINE" in Matthew 26:29, showing that the

grapejuice was STILL WINE and had not been changed to blood.

 

2. Jesus often referred to Himself in symbols. So why see Him as literal in a symbolic

context?

 

John 10:7 "I am the door." Did Jesus mean he was literally wooden? No.

 

John 14:6 "I am the way." Did Jesus mean he was literally a road? No.

 

John 15:5 "I am the vine." Did Jesus mean he was literally a tree? No.

 

John 8:12 "I am the light." Did Jesus mean he was literally a torch or a sun? No.

 

John 6:48 "I am the bread of life." Did Jesus mean he was literally a loaf of dough? No.

 

John 6:63 states clearly that Jesus was speaking spiritually, not literally: "The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life."

 

Luke 22:19 states clearly that the Lord's supper is for remembrance purposes: "This do in remembrance of me." This is a metaphor, where one thing is said to be another thing because of it’s similarity. A metaphor is a figurative use of terms without indicating their figurative nature, for example, “he shall eat his words”.

 

3. The bread and wine did not become Christ's body and blood because:

 

a) Christ was still present with them. Christ would have had 2 bodies, one which died on the cross and one which did not.

 

b) To drink blood was forbidden in Acts 15:20,29 "We write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from BLOOD."

 

In Deuteronomy 12:16 "Only ye shall not eat the blood."

 

4. The tense of the Greek verbs "EAT" in John 6:50,51,52,53,54,56,57,58 is in the AORIST tense showing a ONCE-FOR-ALL, point action, that is NOT CONTINUAL.

 

The Biblical Lord's supper is to be a repeated event, and therefore has no saving merit. Roman Catholics are commanded to believe in transubstantiation because it was stated at the Council of Trent (11 October 1551) that this doctrine was essential for salvation. They pronounced curses on anyone who would deny it.

 

Paul the Apostle, in contrast, pronounced a double curse on anyone who preached a gospel different from the all sufficiency of Christ's death, burial and resurrection to save us from our sins. Galatians 1:6-9 puts a double curse on this "other gospel" of transubstantiation for salvation.

 

5. Before Christ ascended to heaven, He promised to come to us during the Church Age, NOT in the sacrifice of the MASS, but by the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-18 as Comforter): "He shall give you another Comforter ... even the Spirit of truth ... I will not leave you comfortless: I WILL COME TO YOU.” Note: Christ will return to earth a second time visibly in glory. This is what is meant by 1 Corinthians 11:26 "For as oftenas ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death TILL HE COME."

 

Note: This means that Christ does not come literally and visibly as the wafer in the mass, but to the air as in 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17.

 

6. At the Council of Constance in 1415 it was agreed to withold the cup from the congregation lest the wine be spilt. However this contradicts 1 Corinthians 11:25-29 where ALL Corinthian believers drank of the wine: "Whosoever shall eat this bread and drink this cup unworthily." v.27. Drinking the cup is mentioned six times in five verses. Transubstantiation is not a mystery, but an absurdity; not a difficulty but a contradiction.

 

Question: How then do we eat his flesh and drink his blood?

 

Answer: Through the WORD OF GOD.

 

John 6:63 "The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

 

John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh."

 

John 5:24 "He that heareth my Word and believeth on him that sent me, has everlasting life."

 

The scribes who knew Jeremiah 31:31-34, "I will put my law in their inward parts", and

Jeremiah 15:16, "Thy words were found and I DID EAT THEM; and thy word was unto me

the joy and rejoicing of mine heart", understood the idea of receiving God's Word into one’s

inner being.

 

Peter got the message, while others planned to desert Jesus:

 

"Thou hast the WORDS of eternal life." John 6:68.

 

"Being born again ... by the WORD of God." 1 Peter 1:23-25.

 

Peter knew that Jesus was speaking about the WORD of God, and not about literal flesh

and blood.

 

Question: If this doctrine of transubstantiation only arose in the 9th century, and if it is so

necessary to Roman Catholic salvation, what happened to those who lived before the 9th

century not believing this doctrine? Did they all go to hell?

 

Question: What about the thief on the cross who repented and never took the wafer? Did

he go to hell? 

 

No! Jesus said he went to paradise.

I'm waiting.