This is why I am here, how about you?

[Guest shiloh357]

2 minutes ago, Badjao33 said:

Only God and spirit can be without a beginning and an end. This was discussed in an earlier post.  

"Forever"  doesn't mean "without beginning or end"  even when God uses that term.  

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All of Abraham's descendants have access to the promise through faith. 

Yes, when we are talking the promises regarding redemption.    The problem is that your theology makes God unfaithful to biblical Israel regarding the other promises He made but has not yet fulfilled to the nation, particularly those promises about their national restoration, which in process as we speak. 

 

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The only thing that has been replaced is an Old Covenant with a new and better Covenant. 

But that does not replace the Abrahamic covenant as it is not the "Old Covenant."

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, Badjao33 said:

Since you answered no to this question, then why do you as a follower of Christ support the current state of Israel and their persecution of the Palestinian people, many of whom are our brothers and sisters in Christ? 

 

 

Israel is not persecuting the Palestinians.   The Palestinians are persecuting the Jews.   They kill Jews with bombs on busses, suicide bomb Jewish restaurants, lob rockets and mortars into Jewish cities.   They murder Jews every chance they get.   

They deny the Holocaust, and in places like the West Bank and Gaza, Mein Kampf was a best seller.   The Palestinians are the persecutors.   

And it is Hamas and Fatah not Israel that persecutes the Christian Palestinians (the real ones, the ones that get truly born again).  

But as long as it's Jews who are the targets of terrorism, the world redefines terrorism against the Jews as "resistance."  And Christians readily defend that trash.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Badjao33 said:

Only the Old Covenant and the physical land is being replaced in the way I believe, so I guess this doesn't apply. 

The land promises were never replaced and you have NO biblical support for that.

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I was under the impression that this was a discussion forum where believers with different opinions were welcome to discuss all aspects of the Bible and our faith, but according to you, it's your way or the highway.  I participate on a couple of other Christian forums and unlike this one, the members don't use insults, intimidation, and bullying towards those with differing points of view as I find here. 

Well, those sites might agree with your anti-Semite theology.   Perhaps you should just stay there and not promote anti-Semitism over here.   That junk is not welcome here.

 

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Personally I am here mainly to have fellowship with other believers since it is difficult to do in the place I currently work and live. I read much more than I post and I am always seeking knowledge. I have no problem if you do not agree with me, but when you do disagree with me or anyone else who visits this forum, as a follower of Christ you should always do so with gentleness and respect. 

We reject anti-Semitism for the demonic view that it is.   And your support of terrorism is also problematic.   And you pretty much advocate the dishonest Arab narrative of the middle east.   So yeah, you're going to get some pushback.   You are promoting lies and that is not welcome here, either.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Badjao33 said:

That is according to your interpretation and understanding. There are hundreds of millions of Christians that see things differently than you do and you should respect their position. 

Truth is not determined by a majority vote.  Truth stands independent of who believes it or how many.   We don't respect the opinions of "Christians"  (so-called) who stick up for Palestinian terrorism. 

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What bothers me is people who can't seem to discuss a topic without resorting to name calling, bullying, and intimidation. 

No one is being bullied.  We simply don't tolerate your anti-Semitic teachings.

 

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I don't condone the use of violence of any sort against anyone and I will always choose to side with those who are being persecuted and oppressed regardless of their faith or lack there of. 

You were condoning terrorism just ac couple of pages ago.  And you have never condemned Palestinian terrorism.   You simply make excuses for it.

 

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So now I will ask you, why do you as a follower of Christ support the current state of Israel and their persecution of the Palestinian people, many of whom are our brothers and sisters in Christ? 

Israel isn't' persecuting them.   The Palestinians are the ones raising their children to kill Jews.   The Palestinians are still raising their children to repeat the old Nazi claim that the Jews are descendants of apes and pigs.  They have entire curriculums in their schools that teach that.   It is the Palestinians that are calling for Israel's destruction.

It was Palestinians that joined the Nazi army in the 40's when the Mufti of Jerusalem donated them to his friend Hitler.  Incidentally, he was an uncle of Yasir Arafat.

It is Palestinian Imams that call for the destruction of Israel in mosques on Israeli soil.

It is Jews in Israel that get bombed by the Palestinians in restaurants, play grounds, bus stops and side roads.  They are the ones enduring day and night non-stop terrorism and hardly walk to the store for bread and milk without wondering if they will be murdered by a Palestinian suicide bomber.

Palestinian Christian enjoy Israeli protection. It is Hamas and Fatah who have persecuted Palestinian Christians.   But you have drank the Muslin Kool-Aid and are too deeply entrenched in Islam to see things the way they really are.

[Guest shiloh357]

3 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

Both of you totally missed the point of my comment. I said "There are hundreds of millions of Christians that see things differently than you do and you should respect their position."  I didn't say they are right or wrong, I just said they see things differently than you and you should respect them as the Bible teaches us to do. This would apply to anyone who disagrees with us regardless of their faith. 

I have no respect for liberal "Christians" who promote Replacement Theology and who make excuses for Islamic terrorism, as if it is somehow justified.  They do not deserve respect and will get none.

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I don't see anything antisemitic about my position. It doesn't discriminate against or promote hatred towards Jews in anyway. In fact it portrays the Jewish people in a positive way throughout history and highlights their importance in God's plan for all people. There is no room for hatred, discrimination, or bigotry within the the Body of Christ.  As for the other sites, most don't agree with my position on a lot of the issues there either, but they don't call me a liar, racist, anti-Christ, Muslim, etc. as a few here do. 

Your position is nothing but anti-Semitic.   If anyone spoke about black people the way you have done about the Jews and Israel, it would be considered racist.   It is a fact that only socially acceptable form of racism in the Church is anti-Semitism.

 

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I also reject antisemitism and nowhere have I ever shown support for terrorism. Ironically, countering violent extremism is one of the programs in the ministry I have here. 

It's not "violent extremism."  It's "Islamic terrorism."  And yes you have shown support for it and tried to make excuses for it.  I think the problem is that you have bought into the Islamic approach which redefines terrorism so that when terrorism is committed against Jews in Israel, it's called, "resistance to occupation."   Among the Palestinians, they have been taught to dehumanize the Jews so that terrorism is really no different than killing mouse or pig.  It's not crime.  Blowing up people on buses in the name of their demon (allah).   

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Hook me up with a quote where I have condoned terrorism. 

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 8:53 AM, Badjao33 said:

If you were forced out of your house and those who did this to you took away your basic human rights, I highly doubt you would find the experience enjoyable. You would want to do something to get your home and rights back wouldn't you? 

Since that happened decades ago, let's say your mother and father were the ones who were originally forced out of their homes and have been living in tenement housing since then. If you walked home from school one day to find your housing complex in ruin from an Israeli airstrike, and the bodies of your mother and father lying dead among the ruin along with your baby sister, I highly doubt you would find the experience enjoyable. 

Since you have no rights, or few at best, throwing rocks may be your only option to avenge the deaths of your family. If a militant group had better options such as crude rockets or explosives, wouldn't it be tempting to go to them and carry out an attack against those who wronged you? If you no longer had a home and family and your future looked bleak, you may even be willing to strap explosives to yourself and blow up people from the other side out of anger and desperation.  

The bitterness, hate, and discontent already existed in places like Gaza and the West Bank, groups like Hamas and Hezbollah came in and exploited it. 

 

There you go.

 

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The fact that you deny that the state of Israel and many of it's citizens are persecuting Christians is startling. It's no secret that  persecution and lands being stolen at the hands of the Israeli government and Israeli settlers has been taking place for decades. 

I have been studying this conflict for 30 years.  And I am quite aware of the facts.   And the facts are the Palestinian have never had land, and no land was stolen from them by the Israeli government.

First of all, the land that Israel sits on was purchased from Turkish landowners and some Arab farmers who couldn't get anything to grow.  Most of the land purchased was desert and swamp and had to dried up an irrigated before it could be lived on.  All of this in the 1936 British Peel Commission Report.  It confirms that the land was purchased an exorbitant prices ($1100 an acre) when better soil in the US was going for only $100 an acre.

Secondly, the Palestinian have never had any land.   They were, originally transients from Jordan who found work helping the Jews work the land and build farms.  They were allowed to live with the Jews in the land peacefully.  

Their land was lost at the hands of the Arab armies that tried to destroy Israel one day after Israel declared a nation.  I posted several quotes from Arab newspapers supporting the fact that the Arabs told the Palestinians to flee into neighboring countries until the attack was over and promised them that they could return to claim the property of the dead Jews.    But God had other plans, and the Arabs were defeated.

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It has nothing to do with Islam or "drinking the Muslim Kool-aid" as you say. This is the testimony of our brothers and sisters in Christ who live in the region and it is widely reported in the media. This is not Muslim propaganda, this is fact.

No, that fact is that Christians are quite well protected by Israel in Israel.  But in Gaza, Christians are brutally persecuted by Hamas and I posted six or seven links to you personally (that you ignored) proving the fact.

 

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If they are God's chosen nation (people), then who are we to God? 

His CHILDREN!!!!!   Don't you bother reading the Bible?!?!?   

Edited May 24, 2018 by shiloh357

[Guest shiloh357]

4 minutes ago, Badjao33 said:

Our brothers and sisters on the ground give a different account. The quotes below are just excerpts from the links. 

I guess it depends on which Palestinians you consider to be genuine "Christians."   I have noted that official gov't approved "Christian" Palestinians vs. the ones who are persecuted are not really the same.   The Palestinians "Christians"  you cite who are really just RCC, side with the terrorists and the PLO against Israel, like the Bishop you quoted from earlier. 

But there are Palestinians who are coming to a genuine faith in Jesus Christ.  They are being reached by evangelical missionaries on a "grass roots level" (for lack of a better term) with the true Gospel and are getting born again, along with other Messianic Jews, as well.    They go to home churches and have to meet in secret and are brutally persecuted in Gaza by Hamas.   The ones in Bethlehem were driven from the homes by the Palestinians and fled to Jerusalem and to the Israeli government for help.  They didn't go to the Christian quarter.

It is not Israel who is persecuting the Christian Palestinians in the Land.  It is the Muslims.  It is always the Muslims.  They are more trouble than anything else.

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Below is a link to the Kairos document that was endorsed by the Palestinian Orthodox, Catholics, and Protestant churches. It's a bit long, but well worth the read.   

They have nothing to say that is worth reading.

 

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Some more examples of stolen land. 

https://www.oikoumene.org/en/press-centre/news/palestinian-christians-face-loss-of-land

 

This is just one example of the one-sided tales that are told.   This is not about persecution.  It is about Israel taking land needed for self-preservation due to terrorism.   Israel had to uproot trees in the West Bank when they put the security fence.   It was a requirement that fence had to be out far enough to keep PLO rockets out of range of Jewish towns and villages.    So this is nothing new.   Israel didn't set out to persecute Christians.

The Palestinians don't own any land.  You can't steal from someone what doesn't belong to them.

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And lets not forget the thousands of "Price Tag" attacks against Palestinians by radical Israeli settlers over the past decade. Below are some of the messages they have for Christians.  "Jesus is a monkey" "Mary is a cow" "Death to Arabs and Christians"  "King David is for the Jews, Jesus is garbage"  "Jesus is a son of a b*tch" "Only non-Jews can be driven out of our land"  "death to the Gentiles"  "Death to Christianity" "Jesus is dead" "Mary was a prostitute" "Jesus is sh*t" 

Yeah, I looked up the sources for those claims was inundated with anti-Semitic websites, that based on what I saw lack a whole lot of credibility and truth in reporting.   But that would explain the less than honest claims you have been making in this thread.

   The fact that you have to go to websites that are decidedly anti-Jew and  fanatically anti-Israel like the World Council of Churches and liberal ecumenical sites that are not really "Christian" in the first place, tells me what I need to know about your wicked theology.

 

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I choose to side with my brothers and sisters in Christ who are suffering persecution on this issue.

No, you're just siding with liberal, ecumenical, "Christianity" and not the true Church of Jesus Christ.

[Guest shiloh357]

3 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

So these Israeli media outlets antisemitic also? Haaretz, Israel National News, The Jerusalem Post, and The Times of Israel. Even Fox news has reported on the price tag attacks. 

The price tag attacks are being committed by radical Israelis, not the Israeli government.   The problem is that you are taking any attack made by extremists and making it appear that these are being carried out by Israel at large, against the Palestinians, which is not the case.   But they are fighting for their homes, which are completely legal in the West Bank and don't want the Palestinians encroaching on them due to the terrorism threat that Palestinians pose. 

It's funny how you seem to have no problem with Palestinians picking up guns and rockets and mortars and donning suicide belts to "resist" the occupation.   Yet these price tag attacks are mostly vandalism and property damage like a burned down mosque.  These settler youth are not blowing people up on busses, they are not detonating suicide bomb belts in Palestinian restaurants.    And they are being arrested for their vandalism and being prosecuted.   Compare that to the way the Palestinians make heroes out of their terrorists and hold them up as role models for  their Palestinian youth.

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If you feel Catholics do not believe in and have the same faith in Christ as you do, there are also thousands of Methodist, Baptists, Lutherans, and other protestant Christians being persecuted in Palestine.  

First of all, the nation is called "Israel" not "Palestine."  Second of all, the Christians being persecuted are the gov't approved RCC, but those who are being born again, and actually receiving Christ as Savior and are calling him by His Hebrew Name.  There are "Christians" and there are genuine born again followers of Jesus.   The latter is persecuted by Hamas in Gaza, the former supports the Palestinian cause against Israel and supports the use to terrorism to forward that cause.
 

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So if land has been in a family for several centuries it means nothing?

The land was not in the family for centuries because the Palestinian presence in the land only goes back the early parts of the twentieth century  between WWI and WWII.     The "Palestinians"  were actually Jordanians who found work helping the Jews build farms and irrigate their lands.   They were not in the land for centuries because the land, for centuries was not hospitable.  It was desert and swamp and only a few farms dotted most of the land.  Most everyone lived in the cities like Jerusalem and it was a mixed bag of Turks, Greeks, Tartars, Kurds, Jews, and other groups.  No one was called "Palestinian.

The "Palestinians" came from Jordan in the 30s and 40s as transients to work for the Jews and that is their origin in the land.  Their land was stolen from them by the Jews.  It was purchased by the Jews from Turkish land owners before the Palestinians every set foot on the land. 

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In reference to Israel Isaiah 49:6 says: ‘I will give you as a light to the nations that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth.’ How is the state of Israel acting as a light to the nations in killing Palestinian children and oppressing Christians?

They are not killing and oppressing Christians.   The price tag attacks are acts of property damage, not terrorism. And the price tag attacks are not being carried out by the state of Israel.   You are factually challenged.

It's the Palestinians who are killing their own children.  They regularly use their own children as human shields and force them to stay close to military targets so they will be killed by Israeli air strikes.  They launch qassam missiles from civilian neighborhoods to ramp up the civilian casualties in conflicts with Israel.  They do this on purpose because they know that Israel alone will get the blame for the children's death.   They do it every time.   The Palestinians are the ones responsible for killing children because they hate Israel more than they love their children. 

They raise their children to be suicide bombers.  In doing so, they prove why the should not have a country.   Anyone who would abuse their children the way these people do, do not deserve a country.
 

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The current leaders of that country and almost the entire population deny Jesus (they are literally anti-Christ). They have some of the most liberal abortion laws in the world offering low cost and even free abortions to some women and gay marriage is legal. Tel Aviv has even been called the gayest city on earth. The current state of Israel doesn't even meet the criteria set forth by scripture nor did it come into existence in the way that the Bible tells us

 

Israel was founded by Atheists and Agnostics and done so against impossible political and military odds.  By all counts, the state of Israel, had they been any other country, would have been snuffed out 24 hours after declaring statehood. 

Israel was not founded by Christians or religious Jews looking for self-fulfilling prophecy.  Rather it was founded in direct fulfillment of Bible prophecy by men who had no intention or inclination to fulfill prophecy.   Ezekiel 36: 16-24 tells us that God is restoring them in a state of unbelief.  The prophecies about them being a light to the world will come to pass during the Millennium.   So I fully expect unbelievers to act like unbelievers and God is sovereignly using that nation to fulfill his purposes and His name is being sanctified as He does so. 

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I'm 100% sure that Jesus Christ and the prophets that came before Him taught that we are to stand up for those who are oppressed and to stand against injustices, and while I condemn the evil acts of Hamas and other Palestinian terrorists who are committing atrocities against the state of Israel and its people, it was the state of Israel that created the culture that allowed the Palestinian people to become radicalized. 

I am always amused by the left-handed, insincere condemnation of terrorism like that because it is always followed by blaming the Jews for it.  The Jews did not create the culture that allowed them to be radicalized.    Israel didn't' steal the their land.  It was the surrounding Arab nations that turned the Palestinians into refugees and continue to keep them as refugees and will not allow anyone to be repatriated into Israel because the Palestinians are useful tools for the Arabs as a means of smearing Israel in the public arena.

Israel has given the Palestinians more money and freedom than they would ever have in an Muslim nations.   After Israel took over administrative control of Gaza and the West bank, the Palestinian standard of living increased by 200%.  Israel has given them schools, and hospitals and free health care and more freedom than they ever knew under Jordanian and Egyptian rule.

So Israel didn't create the refugee crisis.  Israel's concessions and overtures for peace are constantly repaid with more dead Jews in the streets.  Israel as suffered for 70 years what NO other nation on this earth would  have tolerated for one year.   If this was any other nation, there would be nothing left of the Palestinians except greasy spot on the side of the road.

Edited May 25, 2018 by shiloh357

[Guest shiloh357]

6 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

Yet in other threads you suggest that attacks made by Muslim extremists represent true Islam and the Muslim community as a whole. 

As for me, I know that radical Israelis don't represent the majority of Jews living in the state of Israel and that radical Muslims don't represent all Muslims. You on the other hand have a double standard. 

No, what I have said is that groups like ISIS are the truest and the purest expression of Islam IF we define Islam by its founder.  Assuming that Mohammed is the standard against which we judge Islam, then a "good" Muslim should resemble Mohammed. Mohammed was a psychopath, a murderer and a pedophile, not mention a demoniac.   If Mohammed were alive today, he would look like ISIS.  

I never said that all Muslims are terrorists, or that the majority of Muslims are terrorists.  But those that are, are the true Muslims.

But YOU take any atrocity carried out by a small group of Israelis or rogue Israeli soldiers and hold it up as "This is what Israel has done to the Palestinians."  You completely ignore the huge amount of humanitarian aid that Israel has given to the Palestinians for at least the last 50 years.

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Yet international law and every member of the UN with the exception of Israel says these settlements are illegal. Even the US state Department has said they are illegal. 

They are "illegal" only for the purposes of the two-state solution.    But they are not "illegal" in the absolute sense of international law, since the West Bank doesn't belong to any sovereign nation at this point.    It's kind of like how everyone throws around the term, "occupation"  even though legally, Israel's presence in the West Bank is not an "occupation."   The "occupation" is a myth just like claiming that the settlements are "illegal."

Israel's presence in the West Bank is the product of a defensive war.   Israel was attacked by two Arab nations (Jordan and Egypt) in 1967 and they staged their attack on Israel from the West Bank and Gaza.  Israel fought and successfully repelled that attack.   By international law, when you win a defensive war, any territory you take in that war, becomes your land.   Israel won and took the West Bank and Gaza territory and held it legally as the result of their victory.  Their maintained presence is meant to be a buffer against Jordan and Egypt ever using those areas to stage future wars.

So the land is Israel by right of defensive war and Israel is free to inhabit the land they took away from Jordan and Egypt.  The West Bank and Gaza are not occupations and Israel has every right to live and place settlements there in the land that they won legally from the Arabs.

UN Res. 242 is the basis for legality of the settlements.  Under that resolution, Israel is not violating international law by establishing settlements on land they have legal control over.

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You can't be serious.

I provided the quote with you making plenty of excuses for why terrorism against Israel  is reasonable and understandable.

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Just after the verses in Ezekiel you referenced  it says this:

 I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord,” declares the Lord God, “when I prove Myself holy among you in their sight. For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God.  Ezekiel 36:23-27

I think we both agree that this can only be achieved through Jesus Christ and the work of the Holy Spirit. 

 

Yes, but you're missing the point.  The verses I quoted show that they are being restored to the land IN unbelief.  I didn't say that they would stay in a state of unbelief.   "Christians"  have erected this standard whereby God cannot do anything favorable for the Jews, can't restore them to the Land until they repent and get saved.   The Bible doesn't say that.  It is an artificial standard that those who want to delegitimize Israel's current restoration have chosen to project on to God.   The verses you quote prove that the Jewish people will come to the Messiah, but it will happen in the Land of Israel.

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If you read a little further in Ezekiel 36 you will find this:

‘Thus says the Lord God, “On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will cause the cities to be inhabited, and the waste places will be rebuilt. The desolate land will be cultivated instead of being a desolation in the sight of everyone who passes by. They will say, ‘This desolate land has become like the garden of Eden; and the waste, desolate and ruined cities are fortified and inhabited.’ Then the nations that are left round about you will know that I, the Lord, have rebuilt the ruined places and planted that which was desolate; I, the Lord, have spoken and will do it.”   Ezekiel 36:33-36

The people of the current state of Israel and it's leaders have yet to turn to God and put their faith in Jesus. Returning to God and repentance were always a condition for the Israleites to possess the promised land. The only way they can reach the promised land today is if they put their faith in God and accept Jesus as their savior. This clearly didn't happen in 1948.

 

The problem is that according to Ezekiel, God is restoring them to the land in order to sanctify His Name.   He is doing this, not because they deserve it, but because God's honor is at stake due to the promises He has made.  Notice what God says: "Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. " (Eze 36:22-24)

God is doing this for reasons that you don't seem to take into account because you have erected an artificial standard that Israel must meet in order to live in the Land.   God can restore them to the Land when He pleases and we are in that process now.   This is confirmed by Zechariah 12: 1-10.  Both of these passages show that the Jews will find and turn to the Messiah in the Land.

Edited May 25, 2018 by shiloh357

[Guest shiloh357]

13 minutes ago, Davida said:

Israel back in the land....WHO has heard of a Nation being born in one day???  WHO could do it?...the LORD GOD as HE foretold in Isaiah. Happy 70th Jubelee to Israel! 

Isaiah 68: 8-7"Before she travailed, she brought forth; Before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy. 8"Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a land be born in one day? Can a nation be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed,she also brought forth her sons. 9"Shall I bring to the point of birth and not give delivery?" says the LORD. "Or shall I who gives delivery shut the womb?" says your God.…"

Amen!!

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Badjao33 said:

Actually those acts by radical settlers were an an addition to the things the Israel government has done to the Palestinian people. The government has carried out far worse atrocities than the radical settlers. 

No, they have not.  What most people want to do is characterize even the most non-lethal defensive countermeasures Israel employs as being morally equivalent to the terrorism that preceded those actions.   Israel's actions against the Palestinians are defensive in nature.   The Israeli government has no policy of persecution and they do not initiate violence.  They respond to it.   The problem is when people like you want to talk about Israel's actions without discussing the actions of the Palestinians that precipitated those events.  

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This would be like saying we should ignore the improper treatment of slaves and atrocities committed against many of them during the 300+ years slavery was allowed in America because the slave owners and traders provided a roof over their heads, fed and clothed them, and sought medical care for them when needed. 

There is no comparison because the Palestinians are not slaves of Israel.   Israel has done far more for the Palestinian than any of the awful Muslim countries would have done.  In fact, any other nation, if they were suffering the same threat would have  exterminated the Palestinians.   

Israel is beset every day with non-stop Islamic terrorism, more than gets reported on the nightly news.  Israel isn't enslaving anyone.  Israel is the one being terrorized.

 

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The settlements are illegal period.

No, they are not.  

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GENEVA CONVENTION
RELATIVE TO THE PROTECTION OF CIVILIAN PERSONS
IN TIME OF WAR OF 12 AUGUST 1949

Part 1, Section 2, Article 49: The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian
population into the territory it occupies.

Every world government has interpreted the law the same and has came to the same conclusion that the settlements are illegal. I will go on the consensus with this. 

 

Big, big problem there...   Israel is not an occupying power.  An "occupation" occurs when one nation conquers another nation in war and replaces the sitting government with a new government. That's what the Nazis did, and what the US did in Iraq.   Israel is not an occupying power because:

1. Israel was attacked and was engaged defensively against two Arab nations that staged their attacks from the West Bank and Gaza in what we call "The Six Day War."   

2.  Israel did not conquer either Jordan or Egypt.

3. Israel did not conquer the Palestinians, nor did they engage in combat with the Palestinians.

4. Israel cannot be occupying Palestinian land because the Palestinians did not own either the West Bank or Gaza and the Palestinians have never been a sovereign power.

5. International law makes Israel's presence legal because Israel was victorious in self-defense and international law allows land taken in self-defense to remain the property of the defending nation if that nation is victorious.   

6.  As a result of Israel's victory, they have administrative control over the West Bank and formerly over Gaza.

7.  Since Israel's presence doesn't meet the legal definition of an "occupation," Israel can move anyone they want into the territories.  The Settlements are perfectly legal on that basis.

8.  UN Resolution 242 maintains the legality of the settlements.

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I was just giving a hypothetical example of how terrorism begins and how someone who found themselves in a similar situation may react. I was not condoning terrorism in any way, nor was I making excuses for it. I was trying to show how the environment that the state of Israel created has led to the situation we are in today. 

Yes, you were making excuses for how reasonable it is for the Palestinians to feel they need to take up rockets and grenades and you were making an emotional appeal based on a flawed narrative of what is actually happening.   The Israelis have done nothing to create an environment for terrorism, accept for breathing the same air as the Muslims.  

It is the Palestinian leadership that has created the terrorist environment by teaching their children to dehumanize the Jews.   It makes it a lot easier to murder people when you don't see them as human beings.  It was the doctrine the Palestinians learned from the Nazis.

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The Bible says they can't inherit the promises until after they have been redeemed. That redemption is only possible through Christ. 

With respect to the Land Promises, not it doesn't say that, at all.  

 

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God is the one who set the standard and as we know, no man is capable of achieving the level of righteousness that God requires. Without faith in Christ, Israel can't possibly receive the promise. 

God did not set the standard  you are trying to erect and what we see in biblical prophecy is that God's hand is on Israel to restore them in order to sanctify His Name, like it or not.   The promises are being fulfilled even while Israel is in a state of unbelief.  Fortunately, God is not hampered by your theology. 

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Their Messiah came 2000 years ago just as the prophets in the scriptures said He would and many rejected Him. Those who rejected Him were expecting a worldly king and a physical kingdom. If you look at Zechariah 13:1-7 you will find that this prophesy has been fulfilled.

“In that day a fountain will be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for impurity.

“It will come about in that day,” declares the Lord of hosts, “that I will cut off the names of the idols from the land, and they will no longer be remembered; and I will also remove the prophets and the unclean spirit from the land. And if anyone still prophesies, then his father and mother who gave birth to him will say to him, ‘You shall not live, for you have spoken falsely in the name of the Lord’; and his father and mother who gave birth to him will pierce him through when he prophesies. Also it will come about in that day that the prophets will each be ashamed of his vision when he prophesies, and they will not put on a hairy robe in order to deceive; but he will say, ‘I am not a prophet; I am a tiller of the ground, for a man sold me as a slave in my youth.’ And one will say to him, ‘What are these wounds between your arms?’ Then he will say, ‘Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.’

 

"In that Day" is always used to apply to the last days, name the "The Day of the Lord"  which is yet to come.  That prophecy has yet to be fulfilled.  

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“Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd,
And against the man, My Associate,”
Declares the Lord of hosts.
“Strike the Shepherd that the sheep may be scattered;
And I will turn My hand against the little ones.

Jesus confirms this:

Then Jesus said to them, “You will all fall away because of Me this night, for it is written, ‘I will strike down the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered.’  Matthew 26:31

 

That has nothing do with Zech. 13.  This passage was fulfilled in the first coming.   There is still a bodily return of Jesus to come.

Edited May 25, 2018 by shiloh357