What if we are wrong?

[M45510G1C]

This was where he lost me.

What if  Messias is already hear but I am restricted from seeing him because I am blinded by the image of him that I have built in my mind from other peoples perceptions.

And I'm still waiting for him to explain this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah. I'm not really certain as to what that statement meant. I guess I took it that he was concerned that his relationship with the Messiah may be hindered due to some sort of preconceived notion he has of who the Messiah is supposed to be.

With all due respect, I believe you are missing the point. To "walk as He(Jesus) walked" does not imply that we should imitate His "Jew-ness". The Bible makes very clear to us what it means to follow Jesus.

The Bible also makes it clear that we do not need to become Jewish before becoming Christian. Read Acts 15.

15:19 "Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,

15:20but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

15:21"For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath."

Paul is saying that they shouldn't trouble those who were in the process of turning to Yahweh from among the Gentiles. They need only worry them concerning those three things at that time. Why? Because they heard the Law preached in the synagogues every week! They would pick the rest up that way. He was basically saying, give em some slack, they're new at this.

Matthew 5:

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

[Guest MindonFire]

Good Day Fiosh

You state

You quote Proverbs 1: 20-27....who's taking things out of context???

That chapter begins with an admonition to a son to avoid sinners; and goes on to describe their evil ways.  It ends by stating that they "hated knowledge and did not choose the fear of the Lord". 

Your chosen verses are couched in there. They do not refer to people sincerely seeking after the Lord and Truth.

The reason why I did not include verse 10-19 which you speak of is because if you will study verse 20-27 he is not talking exclusively about sinners. He stopped talking exclusively about sinners in verse 18 to introduces new people into the discussion at verse 22. Lets look at Proverbs 1:10-19 My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.

Proverbs 1:11 If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:

Proverbs 1:12 Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:

Proverbs 1:13 We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoil:

Proverbs 1:14 Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse:

Proverbs 1:15 My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from their path:

Proverbs 1:16 For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood.

Proverbs 1:17 Surely in vain the net is spread in the sight of any bird.

Proverbs 1:18 And they lay wait for their [own] blood; they lurk privily for their [own] lives.

Proverbs 1:19 So [are] the ways of every one that is greedy of gain; [which] taketh away the life of the owners thereof.

In verse 19 notice that the object of his speech changes from sinners exclusively to include everyone. So basically if you read verses 10-19 he is saying the ways of a sinner are as such (then he gives the examples), but so are the ways of everyone that is greedy for gain. So in other words everyone or anyone that is greedy for gain has the same ways of a sinner.

The question then is who is he referring to when he states they in

Proverbs 1:29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

Well he is referring to the simple ones, scorners, and fools (verse 22) Look below

Proverbs 1:20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:

Proverbs 1:21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, [saying],

Proverbs 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

Proverbs 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

Proverbs 1:24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;

Proverbs 1:25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

Proverbs 1:26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

Proverbs 1:27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.

Proverbs 1:28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:

Proverbs 1:29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD

It is interesting how all of the people whom he is referring to can be found in the same verse 22. It is also interesting how all of us no matter how sincerely we are seeking after the Lord of truth can still be included into one of these categories.

You state

RE: Psalm 2:4

Once again, you've taken verses out of context. Verse 2 says, "...and the rulers take counsel together against the Lord and His annointed".

This is actually a Messianic Psalm and the wrath is aimed at those who reject Jesus.

You are correct. This is a Messianic Psalm, and his wrath is aimed at heathens who reject his Messias. Now let us not forget were this discussion started. You stated that the Lord will not laugh in derision at his children. This is correct but you have missed a key point from my reply. Look at what I wrote again I stated

You see I had become a heathen, and I didn

[Fiosh]

MindonFire,

Why do you say you had "become a heathen"?

F

[Guest yod]

what if spears were made out of jelly?

[Gerioke]

what if spears were made out of jelly?

[tsth]

Ezekiel 13

1 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 "Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who prophesy, and say to those who prophesy out of their own heart, 'Hear the word of the Lord!' " 3 Thus says the Lord God: "Woe to the foolish prophets, who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing! 4 O Israel, your prophets are like foxes in the deserts. 5 You have not gone up into the gaps to build a wall for the house of Israel to stand in battle on the day of the Lord. 6 They have envisioned futility and false divination, saying, 'Thus says the Lord!' But the Lord has not sent them; yet they hope that the word may be confirmed. 7 Have you not seen a futile vision, and have you not spoken false divination? You say, 'The Lord says,' but I have not spoken." 8 Therefore thus says the Lord God: "Because you have spoken nonsense and envisioned lies, therefore I am indeed against you," says the Lord God. 9 My hand will be against the prophets who envision futility and who divine lies; they shall not be in the assembly of My people, nor be written in the record of the house of Israel, nor shall they enter into the land of Israel. Then you shall know that I am the Lord God.

10 Because, indeed, because they have seduced My people, saying, 'Peace!' when there is no peace--and one builds a wall, and they plaster it with untempered mortar-- 11 say to those who plaster it with untempered mortar, that it will fall. There will be flooding rain, and you, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall tear it down. 12 Surely, when the wall has fallen, will it not be said to you, 'Where is the mortar with which you plastered it?' " 13 Therefore thus says the Lord God: "I will cause a stormy wind to break forth in My fury; and there shall be a flooding rain in My anger, and great hailstones in fury to consume it. 14 So I will break down the wall you have plastered with untempered mortar, and bring it down to the ground, so that its foundation will be uncovered; it will fall, and you shall be consumed in the midst of it. Then you shall know that I am the Lord. 15 Thus will I accomplish My wrath on the wall and on those who have plastered it with untempered mortar; and I will say to you, 'The wall is no more, nor those who plastered it, 16 that is, the prophets of Israel who prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and who see visions of peace for her when there is no peace,' " says the Lord God.

22 Because with lies you have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and you have strengthened the hands of the wicked, so that he does not turn from his wicked way to save his life.

When it doesn't turn out like we were told, will we ask, "where is this mortar that was supposed to hold up the wall, and keep us safe"?

It is not a light thing. You will not be able to joke when it happens, and your laughter will be as shame to you.

In His Truth,

Suzanne

[Guest Shannon101]

Ask God to strengthen our faith so that we wouldn't doubt.

[Gerioke]

Ezekiel 13

1 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 "Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who prophesy, and say to those who prophesy out of their own heart, 'Hear the word of the Lord!' " 3 Thus says the Lord God: "Woe to the foolish prophets, who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing! 4 O Israel, your prophets are like foxes in the deserts. 5 You have not gone up into the gaps to build a wall for the house of Israel to stand in battle on the day of the Lord. 6 They have envisioned futility and false divination, saying, 'Thus says the Lord!' But the Lord has not sent them; yet they hope that the word may be confirmed. 7 Have you not seen a futile vision, and have you not spoken false divination? You say, 'The Lord says,' but I have not spoken." 8 Therefore thus says the Lord God: "Because you have spoken nonsense and envisioned lies, therefore I am indeed against you," says the Lord God. 9 My hand will be against the prophets who envision futility and who divine lies; they shall not be in the assembly of My people, nor be written in the record of the house of Israel, nor shall they enter into the land of Israel. Then you shall know that I am the Lord God.

10 Because, indeed, because they have seduced My people, saying, 'Peace!' when there is no peace--and one builds a wall, and they plaster it with untempered mortar-- 11 say to those who plaster it with untempered mortar, that it will fall. There will be flooding rain, and you, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall tear it down. 12 Surely, when the wall has fallen, will it not be said to you, 'Where is the mortar with which you plastered it?' " 13 Therefore thus says the Lord God: "I will cause a stormy wind to break forth in My fury; and there shall be a flooding rain in My anger, and great hailstones in fury to consume it. 14 So I will break down the wall you have plastered with untempered mortar, and bring it down to the ground, so that its foundation will be uncovered; it will fall, and you shall be consumed in the midst of it. Then you shall know that I am the Lord. 15 Thus will I accomplish My wrath on the wall and on those who have plastered it with untempered mortar; and I will say to you, 'The wall is no more, nor those who plastered it, 16 that is, the prophets of Israel who prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and who see visions of peace for her when there is no peace,' " says the Lord God.

22 Because with lies you have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and you have strengthened the hands of the wicked, so that he does not turn from his wicked way to save his life.

When it doesn't turn out like we were told, will we ask, "where is this mortar that was supposed to hold up the wall, and keep us safe"? 

It is not a light thing.  You will not be able to joke when it happens, and your laughter will be as shame to you.

In His Truth,

Suzanne

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you saying you have been mocked by God as well?

[NITE OWL]

I can't believe we're even having this conversation. If God were here we wouldn't be wondering if He was.

You spoke of shepards feeding their flocks. The shepard that feeds me is Christ. If you doubt the validity of His Word then you doubt the existence of God.

And at which point after you heard this voice did you fall flat on your face? Not many people can say they stood toe to toe with God.

Amazing.

I think you watch too much TV.

[Guest MindonFire]

Anyone who claims to have spoken to God, yet God's voice and words are so contradictory to what His word says, is nothing more than a nut not worthy of a debate. I wouldn't waste your time people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tell that to your beloved president