I used to be an atheist; here's why many won't reach people like me

[walla299]

12 hours ago, Yowm said:

It is the job of the Holy Spirit to convict, it is our job to give them the Word.

Right. I don't try to play Holy Spirit in someone else's life. That position is already filled. 

Its going to depend on the discussion, but the Spirit is good at opening doors. If you put the Word out there, God will see to the convicting.

 

[Sower]

I try to get them lost, before I try to get them saved. Through the word. Create the thirst. Quenched with truth.

[stillseeking]

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Now why don't atheists react in the same way to Christians who point out the standards of God to reveal to the atheist that they are a sinner needing the forgiveness of God through the LORD Jesus Christ?  

I haven't found much difference TBH.  I found religious people of any breed who accused me that something was "wrong" with my behavior to be extremely annoying.  I would have mocked any one of them indiscriminately.  However, having been exposed to a wide variety of religious people, Christians were DEFINITELY the most rude and outspoken.  So, it is totally understandable to me that any random atheist out there might have observed this too and therefore have bad memories of rude Christians, whereas I have yet to see this terrible behavior on the same scale from other religions.  I've lived in multiple countries, urban and suburban areas--so while my experience might not be indicative of everyone's, I can at least speak to how this experience might be shared by many others. 

That said, the original point is that if you've given them no reason to believe in a holy God, then you have given them no reason yet to believe that what you define as sin is in fact such.  You're not convicting anyone of anything if you've not given them a reason to believe that their sin is wrong.  Instead, you're expressing to them that YOU think it's wrong.  Until they believe in God, and God's standards, then any accusation you throw out there, as far as they know, is "your standards".  9/10 such a "conviction" from someone you barely know isn't delivered lovingly, to boot. 

[stillseeking]

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The fact that they are having an emotional response either guilt or hate or what ever to the conviction being given runs contrary to their stated stance of not believing that God exists..  If they did not believe in God why should they care at all about another person revealing the supposed standards of a God that does not exist.. Just as i would not be bothered at all if a person started to try and make me feel guilty for failing to leave milk and cookies for santa...

I disagree.  They're probably having an insulted reaction that someone they didn't ask advice from is telling them how to live their life.  Similar accusations of "you're wrong" are just as frustrating when the source is another atheist.  People just don't like being told they're wrong--and that's why they react. 

[stillseeking]

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If a person is going to become a Christian they will need to be convicted before they see the need for a Redeemer.. So telling Christians to avoid convicting atheists is basically taking away one of the main needed processes of leading a person to Christ..

Disagree.  This was definitely NOT my personal experience, nor was it the personal experience of any other former atheist I've ever met.  We don't come to God because someone accused us of being sinful enough times.  We come to God because patient and respectful people cared for us enough to present evidence at the pace we were willing to hear it and at the quantity we were able to digest it.  It's pretty self-evident to recognize your own sin once you recognize who God is and what His standards are. 

None of these above-referenced people were strangers.  Among the influences which affected me are 80% my own research (from participating in theist/atheist debates) and 20% or so a close friend/family member who absolutely never force fed me gospel, walked the talk, and patiently answered the questions that I asked.  I still find strangers spewing unwanted "convictions", advice, or gospel force-feeding to be extremely disrespectful.  We are to treat others how we want to be treated, and I NEVER want to be treated that way.  Most people don't.  This is why I speak to how ineffective and hurtful such an approach is, to those who may have never experienced it from the other side. 

[stillseeking]

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What if it is essential doctrine?

Do you want people to speak to a lost person with an air of uncertainty?

Or with an air of confidence and conviction? 

If i was seeking God i would want to hear from a person who clearly really believes in their beliefs and is confident about stating their beliefs.. That way i would know i was not hearing from a wishy washy flip flopping Lukewarm person who has no real faith in what they are talking about..

Do your best.  If you're not sure if it's essential doctrine, then admit you're not sure.  Your atheist friend will probably respect your honesty.  I personally appreciate and respect an honest "I don't know" a LOT more than someone who claims an absolute truth but can't back it up. 

You can even give them a video to check out or a passage to read and then ask, "So what do you think?"

Edited July 4, 2018 by stillseeking
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[stillseeking]

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And the Holy Spirit convicts the hearer when the hearer reads or hears the Word of God...

So when a person hears ""thou shalt not steal"" the Holy Spirit will convict them by bringing them to remember the incidences they stole something off someone else and they will feel the guilt for their transgression..

For me, that wasn't exactly it.  Once I realized who God was, I was immediately on a quest to figure out what He wanted from me.  (I'm still on that quest in many ways, as I have a lot of specifics not quite nailed down.) 

Christians are very much in the habit of *really* wanting to point out someone's wrongdoings, but it's exactly this approach (at least as a first step) which I'm testifying doesn't work.  As @Yowm said, the Holy Spirit will convict.  Once you realize who God is, you *want* to please Him.  That's what needs to happen first.  After that, they'll probably come to you ASKING for specifics.  THAT is your chance to gently deliver them. 

[turtletwo]

23 hours ago, stillseeking said:

Like the title says, I was an atheist previously.  For years, in fact.  I know a lot of Christians are born and raised that way, and I want to speak personally to some of the disconnect between those believers who were born and raised as such and the people they're usually the most frustrated they can't reach: atheists. 

I don't want this to be a super-long read.  The following are a few reasons why (many) of you aren't reaching people like me--people who are open to different opinions but are largely disgusted at how their being presented.  Do you catch yourself doing any of these?  I ask you in that case to pause, be mindful of it, and humbly consider this list of ineffective behaviors:

• Stating your interpretation of the Bible as gospel truth--especially concerning grey areas.  Many atheists and agnostics are far more informed about the Bible than you might expect.  They will question your interpretation.  Be honest about how you came to adopt the interpretations you did.  Even if they disagree with you, you'll both still walk away with mutual respect, and that's super important if you ever plan to follow up with them in any capacity whatsoever. 
• Speaking in any kind of accusatory manner.  You may be right that their behavior is sinful, but what's the point in rubbing that in their face when they don't yet believe in a holy God?  You've given them no reason yet to believe sin is even wrong. 
• Speaking in any way, of any thing, that is motivated by your own self-righteousness.  Be extremely honest with yourself about this.  If you think you've achieved "humble", then that's probably a sign to be more humble. 
• Failing to give people the benefit of the doubt when they ask questions or pose doubts.  Give them the benefit of the doubt that they're *not* just trying to be annoying/contradict you/win an argument/attack you.  If you assume everyone has bad motives, you'll start to believe this assumption even when it's not true, and furthermore, you'll lose the chance to win with kindness. 
• Force feeding people gospel information when they've made it clear they're not interested.  Talk to someone who IS interested.  Jesus never forced his message on anyone and in fact issued warnings to those who would choose to follow him. 
• Assuming your biblical interpretation is essential doctrine, or speaking to someone as if it is. 
• Treating the desire to prove using logic as some sort of horrible heresy.  There are plenty of logical arguments for God.  If you don't know any, point them to Ravi Zacharias or John Lennox videos and debates on Youtube (or whomever else you find influential).  The attitude that logic must be abandoned in order to follow God is not only ridiculous but incredibly off-putting to an intelligent person. 
• Accusing them of holding a position they don't, just because they question yours.  Example: "You believe in abortions?  Then you must be a new age feminazi!"
• Losing your patience for any reason, but especially because of: the content of someone's response, someone's emotions, someone's culture, someone just not matching your expectations

I hope this helps.  I'd also be happy to discuss what it's like actually BEING an atheist approached by Christians, what I found annoying, and what I found respectful and effective.  I'm putting this out there because it's been my observation that the way Christians usually approach atheists is horrible and not at all respectful and effective...and I'd like to help change that.  That's all. 

 Good topic, stillseeking. Thanks for this thought provoking and much needed discussion! I'd like to comment on one of your excellent tips. You said, "Force feeding people gospel information when they've made it clear they're not interested.  Talk to someone who IS interested.  Jesus never forced his message on anyone and in fact issued warnings to those who would choose to follow him." This is so true! You'd think this would be obvious...but I guess it's like that old adage 'can't see the forest for the trees.' I've seen entire ministries that like to air their theatrical style 'on-the-street, open preaching' encounters on Youtube as though they're a GOOD thing. But these disturb me because they come off as arrogant, obnoxious and as though Christians are on-the-attack...trying to rope a prize steer!  They insist on going where they are not wanted...disregarding those who clearly tell them so. It just doesn't make sense to me. How does that win an atheist over? What about what Jesus said in Matthew 10:14? "And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet." I think this is a principle we should practice rather than being overly determined and act like what has been known as 'Bible thumpers.'

One on one friendships where the love of Christ is displayed within that relationship is what will win them in the end. I know someone who has an atheist friend who she has been fervently witnessing to for years. The atheist kept saying, "That's what YOU believe. But don't push it on me." She didn't heed that. Eventually,this blatant disregard for the friends feelings led to the atheist threatening to END their long time friendship. She was shocked to her senses. Finally, she backed off and chose to respect the friend and practice kindness instead. 'Loving on' her, as they say. Well- now the atheist is starting to soften. She still has a long way to go, but at least it is a beginning. Perhaps you could pray for this atheist? She is in her 80's and may not have much time left on earth. Her name is Jane.

They say 'you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.' or you make more friends by being nice than rude. Now that the Christian mellowed out in her behavior, the atheist Jane realizes she genuinely cares about HER, as a person rather that seeking to chalk up the success of 'making one more convert.' Makes sense to me. People have feelings, after all. Including atheists, of course. Besides, it is the HOLY SPIRIT who convicts. The word of God will not return void, as scripture says. The seeds are planted. Now it's in the Lord's Hands to draw Jane. 

  Sorry this is so long. Hope it helps somebody.   

 

 

 

 

[stillseeking]

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I was driven away from God, by people who said you had to be married to have sex.

1 John chapter 2 verse 2

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Were you driven away because of the attitudes of these people, and their choice to start with this rather than step zero ("God exists")?  Or, do you accept that God exists and disagree with certain individuals on a point of doctrine? 

[stillseeking]

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I agree.......people sometimes need to be “ jolted” from complacancy,ignorance, pride etc.Jesus was an expert at it......just ask the Pharisees who were told they were “ whited sepelchures” and “ blind guides”. Sometimes the truth hurts.A little fear can go a long way.It should not be to the point of needlessly driving people away, but as a former atheist, waking up to my lost condition and seeing that God could get along just fine without me were the motivators to everything that followed.A little “ good cop” and a little “ bad cop” is quite effective I think——- I know it worked in my case.

If that worked for you, I can understand how you might feel this approach would work for others.  If we're truly treating each other the way we'd want to be treated, we'll still accidentally rub people the wrong way, no matter how good our intentions are. 

However, you would definitely be the first I have heard to profess that (what sounds like) such harsh tactics actually worked for you.  Did these harsh words at least come from people whom you already respect/know?