Doctrinal: Tattoos & Body Piercings

[larryt]

Tell me all who advocate piercings and tattoos, do they do good for the flesh or the spirit? Are you satisfying the flesh or the spirit?

LT

both?

How so?

And again arsonist,

I ask How so?

LT

[WillingToDie]

Do you drive a car?

Chapter and verse please.

Do you use electricity?

Chapter and verse please.

If you're not going to do something because it's not mentioned in the Bible, maybe you should become Amish.

I beg your pardon arsonist, but tattoos and piercings are mentioned in the bible and nothing good is said about them.

On the other hand various vehicles are mentioned that were used to transport people from one place to another. I think I can safely extrapolate that to the use of cars and planes of today.

Increased technology is also in the bible. And the increase still more is told in the book of Daniel.

LT

Those verses you are referring to have been dealt with already, I don't think it needs to be repeated.

Anyway, my post was in response to your post regarding Serenity Grace's post.

Tell me all who advocate piercings and tattoos, do they do good for the flesh or the spirit? Are you satisfying the flesh or the spirit?

LT

both?

How so?

And again arsonist,

I ask How so?

LT

I beieve Serenity Grace already answered this question, and quite beautifully, I might add.

Edited December 19, 2005 by arsonist

[larryt]

I have known people with tatoos who had the biggest hearts, who love the Lord, and live pure Godly lives. They pay their bills/taxes, and take their children to church every Sunday. They are faithful to their wives, and there is nothing to indicate that they are somehow displeasing to the Lord just because they have a tatoo, or a pierced ear.

Hi shiloh,

I do not fault someone because they have a tattoo or piercing for that matter. I know many who have them but they also have recognized that when they did them it was an act of the flesh and truly repented.

1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

I do have a problem with advocating something that the word of God warns against in very direct terms. Then going out and claiming that "God told them to do it." No amount of twisting or bending of the Word can cause it to be null and void. The gyrations that people go through to justify their sins is amazing to me (though I don't know why I should be amazed).

Jer 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

It is only recently that tattoos have become "accepted" in the church(apostate). If those that advocate tattoos can point to a positive endorsement of something that the pagans do that God would approve of then by all means go for it. I don't see anywhere in scripture where God approves of anything that is a substitute for what He requires. Cain tried to do it and was chided. The bible shows us that God is very specific about how to worship Him. If you can show how getting a tattoo or piercing would help in worshiping God by all means do so.

A Brief History of Tattoos reveals the pagan roots of the "art."

The word tattoo comes from the Tahitian "tatu" which means "to mark something."

It is arguably claimed that tattooing has existed since 12,000 years BC. The purpose of tattooing has varies from culture to culture and its place on the time line. But there are commonalties that prevail form the earliest known tattoos to those being done on college students on Telegraph Ave. in Berkeley.

Tattoos have always had an important role in ritual and tradition. In Borneo, women tattooed their symbols on their forearm indicating their particular skill. If a woman wore a symbol indicating she was a skilled weaver, her status as prime marriageable material was increased. Tattoos around the wrist and fingers were believed to ward away illness. Throughout history tattoos have signified membership in a clan or society. Even today groups like the Hells Angels tattoo their particular group symbol. TV and movies have used the idea of a tattoo indication membership in a secret society numerous times. It has been believed that the wearer of an image calls the spirit of that image. The ferocity of a tiger would belong to the tattooed person. That tradition holds true today shown by the proliferation of images of tigers, snakes, and bird of prey.

In recorded history, the earliest tattoos can be found in Egypt during the time of the construction of the great pyramids (It undoubtedly started much earlier). When the Egyptians expanded their empire, the art of tattooing spread as well. The civilizations of Crete, Greece, Persia, and Arabia picked up and expanded the art form. Around 2000 BC tattooing spread to China.

The Greeks used tattooing for communication among spies. Markings identified the spies and showed their rank. Romans marked criminals and slaves. This practice is still carried on today. The Ainu people of western Asia used tattooing to show social status. Girls coming of age were marked to announce their place in society, as were the married women. The Ainu are noted for introducing tattoos to Japan where it developed into a religious and ceremonial rite. In Borneo, women were the tattooists. It was a cultural tradition. They produced designs indicating the owners station in life and the tribe he belonged to. Kayan women had delicate arm tattoos which looked like lacy gloves. Dayak warriors who had "taken a head" had tattoos on their hands. The tattoos garnered respect and assured the owners status for life. Polynesians developed tattoos to mark tribal communities, families, and rank. They brought their art to New Zealand and developed a facial style of tattooing called Moko which is still being used today. There is evidence that the Mayan, Incas, and Aztecs used tattooing in the rituals. Even the isolated tribes in Alaska practiced tattooing, their style indicating it was learned from the Ainu.

In the west, early Britons used tattoos in ceremonies. The Danes, Norse, and Saxons tattooed family crests (a tradition still practiced today). In 787 AD, Pope Hadrian banned tattooing. It still thrived in Britain until the Norman Invasion of 1066. The Normans disdained tattooing. It disappeared from Western culture from the 12th to the 16th centuries.

While tattooing diminished in the west, it thrived in Japan. At first, tattoos were used to mark criminals. First offenses were marked with a line across the forehead. A second crime was marked by adding an arch. A third offense was marked by another line. Together these marks formed the Japanese character for "dog". It appears this was the original "Three strikes your out" law. In time, the Japanese escalated the tattoo to an aesthetic art form. The Japanese body suit originated around 1700 as a reaction to strict laws concerning conspicuous consumption. Only royalty were allowed to wear ornate clothing. As a result of this, the middle class adorned themselves with elaborate full body tattoos. A highly tattooed person wearing only a loin cloth was considered well dressed, but only in the privacy of their own home.

William Dampher is responsible for re-introducing tattooing to the west. He was a sailor and explorer who traveled the South Seas. In 1691 he brought to London a heavily tattooed Polynesian named Prince Giolo, Known as the Painted Prince. He was put on exhibition , a money making attraction, and became the rage of London. It had been 600 years since tattoos had been seen in Europe and it would be another 100 years before tattooing would make it mark in the West.

In the late 1700s, Captain Cook made several trips to the South Pacific. The people of London welcomed his stories and were anxious to see the art and artifacts he brought back. Returning form one of this trips, he brought a heavily tattooed Polynesian named Omai. He was a sensation in London. Soon, the upper- class were getting small tattoos in discreet places. For a short time tattooing became a fad.

What kept tattooing from becoming more widespread was its slow and painstaking procedure. Each puncture of the skin was done by hand the ink was applied. In 1891, Samuel O'Rtiely patented the first electric tattooing machine. It was based on Edison's electric pen which punctured paper with a needle point. The basic design with moving coils, a tube and a needle bar, are the components of today's tattoo gun. The electric tattoo machine allowed anyone to obtain a reasonably priced, and readily available tattoo. As the average person could easily get a tattoo, the upper classes turned away from it.

By the turn of the century, tattooing had lost a great deal of credibility. Tattooists worked the sleazier sections of town. Heavily tattooed people traveled with circuses and "freak Shows." Betty Brodbent traveled with Ringling Brothers Circus in the 1930s and was a star attraction for years.

The cultural view of tattooing was so poor for most of the century that tattooing went underground. Few were accepted into the secret society of artists and there were no schools to study the craft. There were no magazines or associations. Tattoo suppliers rarely advertised their products. One had to learn through the scuttlebutt where to go and who to see for quality tattoos.

The birthplace of the American style tattoo was Chatham Square in New York City. At the turn of the century it was a seaport and entertainment center attracting working-class people with money. Samuel O'Riely cam from Boston and set up shop there. He took on an apprentice named Charlie Wagner. After O'Reily's death in 1908, Wagner opened a supply business with Lew Alberts. Alberts had trained as a wallpaper designer and he transferred those skills to the design of tattoos. He is noted for redesigning a large portion of early tattoo flash art.

While tattooing was declining in popularity across the country, in Chatham Square in flourished. Husbands tattooed their wives with examples of their best work. They played the role of walking advertisements for their husbands' work. At this time, cosmetic tattooing became popular, blush for cheeks, coloured lips, and eyeliner. With world war I, the flash art images changed to those of bravery and wartime icons.

In the 1920s, with prohibition and then the depression, Chathma Square lost its appeal. The center for tattoo art moved to Coney Island. Across the country, tattooists opened shops in areas that would support them, namely cities with military bases close by, particularly naval bases. Tattoos were know as travel markers. You could tell where a person had been by their tattoos.

After world war II, tattoos became further denigrated by their associations with Marlon Brando type bikers and Juvenile delinquents. Tattooing had little respect in American culture. Then, in 1961 there was an outbreak of hepatitis and tattooing was sent reeling on its heels.

Though most tattoo shops had sterilization machines, few used them. Newspapers reported stories of blood poisoning, hepatitis, and other diseases. The general population held tattoo parlors in disrepute. At first, the New York City government gave the tattoos an opportunity to form an association and self- regulate, but tattooists are independent and they were not able to organize themselves. A health code violation went into effect and the tattoo shops at Times Square and Coney Island were shut down. For a time, it was difficult to get a tattoo in New York. It was illegal and tattoos had a terrible reputation. Few people wanted a tattoo. The better shops moved to Philadelphia and New Jersey where it was still legal.

In the late 1960s, the attitude towards tattooing changed. Much credit can be given to Lyle Tuttle. He is a handsome, charming, interesting and knows how to use the media. He tattooed celebrities, particularly women. Magazines and television went to Lyle to get information about this ancient art form.

Toady, tattooing is making a strong comeback. It is more popular and accepted than it has ever been. All classes of people seek the best tattoo artists. This rise in popularity has placed tattoists in the category of "fine artist". The tattooist has garnered a respect not seen for over 100 years. Current artists combine the tr5adition of tattooing with their personal style creating unique and phenomenal body art. With the addition of new inks, tattooing has certainly reached a new plateau.

LT

[WillingToDie]

Larry, just about everything we have has pagan roots. Christmas, Easter, etc.

Just because something has Pagan roots doeesn't mean God can't use it for His glory.

[larryt]

Larry, just about everything we have has pagan roots. Christmas, Easter, etc.

Just because something has Pagan roots doeesn't mean God can't use it for His glory.

I don't celebrate the mass, nor do I celebrate Astarte. Do I recognize the birth of Christ? Yes I do. It is in the Bible. I rejoice that Jesus rose from the dead every day. But let's stick with tattoos and piercings.

Another thing I've been finding very interesting, is that the anti-legalists are some of the most judgmental people of all. It seems to me to be a strange double standard where they can make all sorts of accusations and call all sorts of names, just because someone else takes a stand that they don't like, yet the one taking the stand is legalistic, while the anti-legalist is somehow the virtuous one.

It is acceptable for the anti-legalist to argue equally for their position, but if the alleged legalist argues for their position, they are automatically discredited as legalistic. In other words, it is always virtuous to toss a doctrine out, but is always reprehensible to hold to it. What about licentiousness? Isn't that equally wrong? The one standing for doctrine is always condemned, while the general consensus is not to judge those who are not holding to the doctrine.

It's just another aspect of this discussion that came to mind.

From this thread.

arsonist,

If you can truly say that God is honored by your getting a tattoo or piercing then you will give an answer. Keep in mind there are consequences to ALL our actions, some of which may not show up for several generations. God lays a heavy curse on illegitimacy. They cannot come into the congregation of the righteous for ten generations. Does that mean that all bastards go to hell? No, some get saved by God's mercy and grace. That doesn't change the fact that God hates adultery and fornication.

Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

arsonist, Is Jesus Christ your Lord? If so then follow Him.

LT

Edited December 19, 2005 by larryt

[apothanein kerdos]

Tell me all who advocate piercings and tattoos, do they do good for the flesh or the spirit? Are you satisfying the flesh or the spirit?

LT

*does misplaced metaphysical dualism dance*

A tat can satisfy both, or just the physical flesh. Doesn't matter either way.

[darkest_red]

If you look at the sex tattoo

[larryt]

Serenity,

Read some of what u wrote in other posts, and Jesus set us free from the curse, He died so we could be set free from the old covenant system. Also u have a thing for when someone says God told them to do it, how come you can not hear Lord Jesus Christ, speaking in your heart, and why is He not speaking with You?

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

LT

[Smalcald]

If you look at the sex tattoo

[hebrews_beauty]

So I think we need to be careful with tattoo