Old Testament moral laws

[Blue1Sapphire]

Hello again.....I have a question for those of you who like to ponder the deeper questions. In the Old Testament, God was so opposed to Homosexuality and adultery that He enacted capital punishment for it. Now my question is this. Should such laws be in force today. If Israel kept to His commands it would have been a model nation and blessed like no other. One, all others would have drawn inspiration from and welcomed their Saviour.  This wasn't to be.

However, where a nation upholds laws that are based on Gods creation, wouldn't such a nation bring blessings upon itself?

We can see today the results of not upholding such laws and it would seem that as a result, the demise of western nations is firmly on track.

When I say this, I apply that punishment to myself first, in that I see it as a capital crime and therefore acts as a powerful deterrent.

As goes the family, so goes the nation.

 

[Michael37]

Gal 3:24 "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith."

The Law Was Our "Schoolmaster" To Bring Us Unto Christ

The Trustworthy Greek Attendant

 

Paul, the writer of Galatians, shifts gears in this verse using a metaphor about the Jewish Law, the Greek word "paedagogos" which was in ancient Greece, a trustworthy attendant for children. 
 

The "schoolmaster" in the historical context of this Scripture was not the teacher, but rather the slave, who cared for his master's son's from around the age of 6 or 7 until they reached puberty. The servant (usually elderly) would escort the child to school and care for his safety in his immaturity making sure he was instructed, seeing that this child too was his master. Once the child grew up, he was no longer required to obey his servant. 
 

The technical duty of the attendant, according to historians, was to guard the children from evil, both physical and moral, rather than instruction. He went with them to and from the school and the gymnasium, and was personally responsible for their safety and protected them from any bad company. (See Smith's "Dictionary of Antiquities" about Paedagogus). 

The Law Pointed to Jesus, the Real Teacher

 

This is a striking imagery of how the Law was primarily given for a certain purpose as an attendant to lead us to Jesus, who is the real teacher. Paul makes it clear that the Law was never given to teach us (we could never obey it), but rather it was a finger pointing to the One who is the only teacher, Jesus. 

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The difference between law and grace is in view here. Legislation requires enforcement and punishment but does not change the cause, whereas grace, among other things, is the empowerment to willingly change.

Edited July 15, 2018 by Michael37
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[Blue1Sapphire]

36 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Gal 3:24 "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith."

The Law Was Our "Schoolmaster" To Bring Us Unto Christ

The Trustworthy Greek Attendant

 

Paul, the writer of Galatians, shifts gears in this verse using a metaphor about the Jewish Law, the Greek word "paedagogos" which was in ancient Greece, a trustworthy attendant for children. 
 

The "schoolmaster" in the historical context of this Scripture was not the teacher, but rather the slave, who cared for his master's son's from around the age of 6 or 7 until they reached puberty. The servant (usually elderly) would escort the child to school and care for his safety in his immaturity making sure he was instructed, seeing that this child too was his master. Once the child grew up, he was no longer required to obey his servant. 
 

The technical duty of the attendant, according to historians, was to guard the children from evil, both physical and moral, rather than instruction. He went with them to and from the school and the gymnasium, and was personally responsible for their safety and protected them from any bad company. (See Smith's "Dictionary of Antiquities" about Paedagogus). 

The Law Pointed to Jesus, the Real Teacher

 

This is a striking imagery of how the Law was primarily given for a certain purpose as an attendant to lead us to Jesus, who is the real teacher. Paul makes it clear that the Law was never given to teach us (we could never obey it), but rather it was a finger pointing to the One who is the only teacher, Jesus. 

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The difference between law and grace is in view here. Legislation requires enforcement and punishment but does not change the cause, whereas grace, among other things, is the empowerment to willingly change.

Thank you Michael. . . However  people use this grace to bring corruption in the land as is evident both now and in past generations. 

If grace is treated as a licence to sin, hasnt grace lost its meaning? 

[Michael37]

1 minute ago, Blue1Sapphire said:

Thank you Michael. . . However  people use this grace to bring corruption in the land as is evident both now and in past generations. 

If grace is treated as a licence to sin, hasnt grace lost its meaning? 

Rom 5:20-21
(20)  Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
(21)  That as sin has reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:1-2
(1)  What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
(2)  God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
 

I'm sure the pretenders do as you say, but they are in error. More later when I return soon.

[Blue1Sapphire]

43 minutes ago, Yowm said:

I don't believe it would take a Theonomy built on Dominionist principles. Simply restore prayer, the Bible and corporeal punishment in our schools and you'll see a vast improvement in the Nation.

This would certainly be a good start. However, when a door is opened by legalising such things, doesnt this open the floodgates as we see today. The results of which is yet to fully unfold.

[Michael37]

59 minutes ago, Blue1Sapphire said:

This would certainly be a good start. However, when a door is opened by legalising such things, doesnt this open the floodgates as we see today. The results of which is yet to fully unfold.

Sodom and Gomorrah were dealt with justly, no doubt a warning to mankind.

Here is another warning, this about human governments claiming divine rights:

"We are determined, as leaders of the nation, to fulfill as a national government the task which has been given to us, swearing fidelity only to God, our conscious, and our people...

[The national government] will take Christianity as the basis of our collective morality..."

Adolf Hitler, 1933

Edited July 15, 2018 by Michael37

[Neighbor]

4 hours ago, Blue1Sapphire said:

Hello again.....I have a question for those of you who like to ponder the deeper questions. In the Old Testament, God was so opposed to Homosexuality and adultery that He enacted capital punishment for it. Now my question is this. Should such laws be in force today. If Israel kept to His commands it would have been a model nation and blessed like no other. One, all others would have drawn inspiration from and welcomed their Saviour.  This wasn't to be.

However, where a nation upholds laws that are based on Gods creation, wouldn't such a nation bring blessings upon itself?

We can see today the results of not upholding such laws and it would seem that as a result, the demise of western nations is firmly on track.

When I say this, I apply that punishment to myself first, in that I see it as a capital crime and therefore acts as a powerful deterrent.

As goes the family, so goes the nation.

 

No. Simple answer, no.

God "enacted" capital punishment for the flesh and the soul of man in His wrath against Adam the first man. Adam's sin brought death onto the scene of all of God's creation. That had had nothing to do with  homosexuality. Every single person without exception, save perhaps two, have fallen short of God's standard. All are condemned to death. Homosexuality is just one resulting manifestation of the sin  of Adam against God. It is a result not a cause of any man's imperfection, His sin as descendent of Adam the first man.

It is by God's grace and His mercy alone that some, a remanent, are saved out from death under His just wrath. It is God alone that saves some, not any capital punishment system placed upon the corruptible flesh, by one man against another for any series of particular sins ,by the killing  of the flesh.

By the first Adam came death, by the second Adam comes redemption. Only through the ministry of Jesus who is God will there be a time eternal with perfection restored. It will not come by mankind's killing of one another for any reason.

Eternal life and blessing is not an Old Testament versus New Testament thing, as both the Old and the New are one continuous reveal of God's plan for mankind, and all of His creation, that includes Israel. God has already reconciled the serious issue of sin, sin against Him. That reconciliation is found in the shed blood of Jesus. And for that reason there is no need none whatsoever to consider instituting killings of homosexuals, nor any other sinner, in fact I declare that is the rejection, and perhaps the utmost rejection of God's plan, a complete denial of His love, mercy, and grace.

Praise God for His mercy and His grace.

 

Edited July 15, 2018 by Neighbor

[Blue1Sapphire]

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

No. Simple answer, no.

God "enacted" capital punishment for the flesh and the soul of man in His wrath against Adam the first man. Adam's sin brought death onto the scene of all of God's creation. That had had nothing to do with  homosexuality. Every single person without exception, save perhaps two, have fallen short of God's standard. All are condemned to death. Homosexuality is just one resulting manifestation of the sin  of Adam against God. It is a result not a cause of any man's imperfection, His sin as descendent of Adam the first man.

It is by God's grace and His mercy alone that some, a remanent, are saved out from death under His just wrath. It is God alone that saves some, not any capital punishment system placed upon the corruptible flesh, by one man against another for any series of particular sins ,by the killing  of the flesh.

By the first Adam came death, by the second Adam comes redemption. Only through the ministry of Jesus who is God will there be a time eternal with perfection restored. It will not come by mankind's killing of one another for any reason.

Eternal life and blessing is not an Old Testament versus New Testament thing, as both the Old and the New are one continuous reveal of God's plan for mankind, and all of His creation, that includes Israel. God has already reconciled the serious issue of sin, sin against Him. That reconciliation is found in the shed blood of Jesus. And for that reason there is no need none whatsoever to consider instituting killings of homosexuals, nor any other sinner, in fact I declare that is the rejection, and perhaps the utmost rejection of God's plan, a complete denial of His love, mercy, and grace.

Praise God for His mercy and His grace.

 

Thank you Neighbor.   .the question remains then. If such laws are done away with, doesnt this then allow the floodgates to open and what you see today is as a result of those floodgates opening. 

[Michael37]

1 minute ago, Blue1Sapphire said:

Thank you Neighbor.   .the question remains then. If such laws are done away with, doesnt this then allow the floodgates to open and what you see today is as a result of those floodgates opening. 

We are not to be of the world but we do live in a world whose floodgates have long been open to corruption, deception, and exploitation. Currently I know of 7 theocracies, namely Afghanistan, Iran, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Vatican City, and Yemen. With the exception of the Vatican City these are all Islam-based governments, and there are huge issues with human rights and civil liberties in all cases, due to human fallibility.

There was a backlash against Puritanism in the USA because it went too far and became cruel. I am in no way endorsing homosexuality or any form of immorality, but I question a government legislated death penalty for such sins because many sinners would be executed before they could become Christians.

[Blue1Sapphire]

2 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

We are not to be of the world but we do live in a world whose floodgates have long been open to corruption, deception, and exploitation. Currently I know of 7 theocracies, namely Afghanistan, Iran, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Vatican City, and Yemen. With the exception of the Vatican City these are all Islam-based governments, and there are huge issues with human rights and civil liberties in all cases, due to human fallibility.

There was a backlash against Puritanism in the USA because it went too far and became cruel. I am in no way endorsing homosexuality or any form of immorality, but I question a government legislated death penalty for such sins because many sinners would be executed before they could become Christians.

There obviously are different ways to look at this. One you have brought up is that man is so inherently inclined to sin that to legislate against it is to guarantee his failure and resultant death. The other is to say that if there are no boundaries set then the results will be the moral downfall of a nation and therefore its certain demise. God did try this out in the Old Testament and if His people would have followed through, the results would have been an outstanding nation. Sadly mans inclination to sin got the better of him.

So this means man, if left to his own devises will continue on this self destructive path and even if a generation raised up and wanted to follow Gods ways and legislated to do so, the next or the one after would find ways to discard them.

Oh well.....herein lies the story of mankind.

Of course there is a positive note here and that is there is a way out of this for the individual and that way is through Jesus.

Take care.