Problem with evolution

[Angelfishie]

17 hours ago, Still Alive said:

Could evolution have happened? Technically, yes. But that doesn't mean that man evolved from something else.

Precisely.

[Guest shiloh357]

On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 11:31 AM, SerenelyBlue said:

I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God (himself God) and that he sacrificed his life to take the punishment for the sins of those who have faith in him.  I do however believe in evolution.  Are there others like me here?  More liberal Christians?  Do you frown upon people who believe in evolution?

It is impossible reconcile the Theory of Evolution with the Bible without modifying the Bible to fit the theory and/or modifying the theory.   If you take a strict orthodox view of Evolution, you cannot make it fit with what the Bible teaches.  Liberal Christianity creates a lot of theological problems when they try to make Evolution and the Bible peacefully coexist.  The claims of Evolution and the claims of the Bible are simply to far afield of each other to both be true.

[Guest shiloh357]

On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 1:08 AM, Angelfishie said:

Me too SBlue! I come from a very  intellectual family who were not particularly academic, however I've worked and lived with academic people and spaces now for close to 25 years and I too,  understanding the actual term and scientific implications, believe evolution takes place all the time all around us.

It makes complete sense to me that God who made first instances of things that self-replicate would instigate processes (like evolution) that self-propel. There's absolutely no conflict for me between these two ideas. 

No, it really doesn't make sense, not if you think about it critically in light of what the Theory of Evolution actually is and what it claims.

[Angelfishie]

1 minute ago, shiloh357 said:

No, it really doesn't make sense, not if you think about it critically in light of what the Theory of Evolution actually is and what it claims.

I have studied this subject (and clarified in a later post precisely what I MEAN in this context) and as per my clarification: I was referring to the biological process and not the  Theory of Evolution - which is a not actually one single theory at all - of which some are, I agree, quite nonsensical.

[Guest shiloh357]

2 minutes ago, Angelfishie said:

I have studied this subject (and clarified in a later post precisely what I MEAN in this context) and as per my clarification: I was referring to the biological process and not the  Theory of Evolution - which is a not actually one single theory at all - of which some are, I agree, quite nonsensical.

Okay, and I went back and read what you said, but that I think you and the OP have a differing view on that, and the biological process you mentioned isn't  what people mean when they talk about Evolution, generally.  What you mentioned is just adaptation to surrounding conditions, which happens all of the time.  

[Angelfishie]

7 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Okay, and I went back and read what you said, but that I think you and the OP have a differing view on that, and the biological process you mentioned isn't  what people mean when they talk about Evolution, generally.  What you mentioned is just adaptation to surrounding conditions, which happens all of the time.  

Precisely, but most Christians lump one guy's theory (which isn't that well supported anymore, even in Scientific atheistic circles) with all the other aspects of this 'field of study' and scratch a big red line through it all and declare it utter crap.  Which in turn makes those atheistic scientific types laugh at us.  Because a massive portion of the data which led to the guy presenting that theory in the first place is REAL provable science.  I'm not big on throwing out facts because they led some people to think up objectionable and offensive theories that contradict my beliefs.  I'll just bin the theories and keep the science...

If you actually look at definitions for "evolution" there's no subtext which includes the theory of Ape to Man evolution as "fact" because there's no actual proof to support this theory - and so, therefore, it cannot be considered "fact" - not even to scientists in the field.   

A better question would have been Are there Christians who believe that Man evolved from Apes?

To which my answer would be: no, I do not believe men evolved from apes.

Edited August 8, 2018 by Angelfishie

[Michael37]

On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 4:31 AM, SerenelyBlue said:

I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God (himself God) and that he sacrificed his life to take the punishment for the sins of those who have faith in him.  I do however believe in evolution.  Are there others like me here?  More liberal Christians?  Do you frown upon people who believe in evolution?

 

Hi Serenity Blue,

Theistic Evolution is the belief that evolution is God's method of Creation.

Francis Collins describes theistic evolution as the position that "evolution is real, but that it was set in motion by God",^[3] and characterizes it as accepting "that evolution occurred as biologists describe it, but under the direction of God".[Wkpd]

Anyone who subscribes to theistic evolution places themself in conflict with these Bible verses:

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 

1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

Since macro-evolution(microbes-to-man) requires millions of years of mutation and death before the random/chance/accidental development of a human being, and the Bible clearly teaches that there was no death prior to the creation of the first man, either Darwin is right and the Bible is wrong, or the Bible is right and Darwin is wrong regarding the origin of species.  

[Guest shiloh357]

24 minutes ago, Angelfishie said:

Precisely, but most Christians lump one guy's theory (which isn't that well supported anymore, even in Scientific atheistic circles) with all the other aspects of this 'field of study' and scratch a big red line through it all and declare it utter crap. 

I think most Christians understand the difference between micro vs. macro Evolution and even Creation Science accepts the reality of micro-evolution.  That has never been in dispute.

Quote

Which in turn makes those atheistic scientific types laugh at us. 

The laugh at and ridicule us for rejecting macro-evolution.

Quote

Because a massive portion of the data which led to the guy presenting that theory in the first place is REAL provable science. 

I assume you are talking about Darwin?

 

Quote

I'm not big on throwing out facts because they led some people to think up objectionable and offensive theories that contradict my beliefs.  I'll just bin the theories and keep the science...

Macro-Evolution isn't really science and if the theory of Evolution had not come into existence until today, if it were introduced to us just now, it would be laughed to derision.   Evolution came into existence when the single cell was only visible to us as a gelatinous blob.  Teh more we learn about its utter complexity, the less sense Evolution makes because there is simply too much that has to happen for evolution to be viable. 

Quote

If you actually look at definitions for "evolution" there's no subtext which includes the theory of Ape to Man evolution as "fact" because there's no actual proof to support this theory - and so, therefore, it cannot be considered "fact" - not even to scientists in the field.   

I agree. 

 

Quote

 

A better question would have been Are there Christians who believe that Man evolved from Apes?

To which my answer would be: no, I do not believe men evolved from apes.

 

Evolution has been changed from asserting that man came from apes to theory that asserts that apes and man have a common ancestor. 

[SerenelyBlue]

4 hours ago, Michael37 said:

 

Hi Serenity Blue,

Theistic Evolution is the belief that evolution is God's method of Creation.

Francis Collins describes theistic evolution as the position that "evolution is real, but that it was set in motion by God",^[3] and characterizes it as accepting "that evolution occurred as biologists describe it, but under the direction of God".[Wkpd]

Anyone who subscribes to theistic evolution places themself in conflict with these Bible verses:

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 

1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

Since macro-evolution(microbes-to-man) requires millions of years of mutation and death before the random/chance/accidental development of a human being, and the Bible clearly teaches that there was no death prior to the creation of the first man, either Darwin is right and the Bible is wrong, or the Bible is right and Darwin is wrong regarding the origin of species.  

That is what I believe in thank you.  That God is the first cause.  Of course the human being is a product of evolution.  All biological life emanates from a common ancestor.

[SerenelyBlue]

5 hours ago, Michael37 said:

 

Hi Serenity Blue,

Theistic Evolution is the belief that evolution is God's method of Creation.

Francis Collins describes theistic evolution as the position that "evolution is real, but that it was set in motion by God",^[3] and characterizes it as accepting "that evolution occurred as biologists describe it, but under the direction of God".[Wkpd]

Anyone who subscribes to theistic evolution places themself in conflict with these Bible verses:

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 

1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

Since macro-evolution(microbes-to-man) requires millions of years of mutation and death before the random/chance/accidental development of a human being, and the Bible clearly teaches that there was no death prior to the creation of the first man, either Darwin is right and the Bible is wrong, or the Bible is right and Darwin is wrong regarding the origin of species.  

How exactly does God guide evolution?