Scripture Songs

[GandalfTheWise]

1 hour ago, turtletwo said:

7 hours ago, GandalfTheWise said:

I used to enjoy getting the old Last Days Newsletter from Keith Green and crew.

 I remember those! I loved them. The messages were no compromise. And the artwork was one of a kind. Sadly, I lost most of mine through moves I made over the years. Do you still have any of yours?

We lost most of ours due to basement flooding many years ago.  Many of the articles are on line on the Last Days Ministry web site (lastdaysministries.org).    I agree about the artwork.   I do have one that I kept that was separate from the others when we lost them.  I found it when I was packing.   It had an article that impacted me deeply so I had it in a different place among my books.    It's online at https://www.lastdaysministries.org/Groups/1000086203/Last_Days_Ministries/Articles/By_Keith_Green/Keith_Green_The/Keith_Green_The.aspx.  

There's one section in there that hit me deeply.   God tossed a mirror in front of my face that day in the dorms after I picked up the LDM newsletter from my mail slot and went up to my room to read it.  I didn't like what I saw.  Keith was talking about the "Prophet Syndrome" as he called it and people who were convinced that they were modern day prophets for God.    "But you know, deep down inside, most of them really do want to please God, but now they're so insulated from criticism and protected from rebuke (because they think they're a rejected "prophet") that no one can help or reach them. And unless God intervenes in their lives, they cannot truly be used in any long-term way because of their unteachable, uncorrectable spirit.  One of the main problems for them is that most of what they see as wrong, really IS wrong! But they have little love or grace to share the truth with - they just aim their big cannons and BOOM! They blow their hearers to bits."   God used this simple statement to change the direction I was on.  That single simple line "...most of what they see as wrong, really IS wrong!" was ultimately one of the most freeing lines I ever read in my life.  I realized God's purpose for my life was much more than merely being a messenger because anyone can point out the obvious, but being a worthy messenger representative of the message is something completely different. 

Each time I hop on this thread I intend to try to go back toward praise music, but so many meaningful things were associated with so many lives from Christian music from that era...   

[turtletwo]

21 hours ago, GandalfTheWise said:

We lost most of ours due to basement flooding many years ago.

That's a shame... But it's good that one was salvaged and that it made such an impact on your life.

21 hours ago, GandalfTheWise said:

God used this simple statement to change the direction I was on.  That single simple line "...most of what they see as wrong, really IS wrong!" was ultimately one of the most freeing lines I ever read in my life.

Praise the Lord! Isn't it something how the Lord can take a single sentence like that and use it to turn your life around? He really is an awesome God!

Thanks for the link to the article. I went to his website and read it. Keith was someone I admired because he unabashedly, exuberantly loved Jesus ( you could say he was "bananas for Jesus" lol) I sure miss him. I was blessed to see him in concert and counsel afterwards in the seekers room.

21 hours ago, GandalfTheWise said:

Each time I hop on this thread I intend to try to go back toward praise music, but so many meaningful things were associated with so many lives from Christian music from that era...   

 

I know what you mean.

[turtletwo]

57 minutes ago, naominash said:

This one is based on Psalm 84.

This one is based on Psalm 19.

As for singing Scriptures straight through? Try looking up the orthodox church's songs in english. They sing through entire passages of Scripture.

 Thanks for those good suggestions. I went over to YouTube and played them both just now. Shane Barnard also has Psalm 141.

[turtletwo]

 I have a suggestion to recommend. I think one of the most creative ideas has been done by a group called Glad. They decided to make the book of Romans the theme of an album. So the songs are based on individual chapters of this book. Pretty cool concept.  Romans is an important book in so many ways.

If you go to YouTube and type in 'Glad-Romans Full Album' it will come up. There is also the option of listening to individual tracks below it. On the individual tracks it actually tells you the scriptures each particular song is based on. Very helpful.

Give it a listen if you like and let me know what ya think. God bless.

 

[GandalfTheWise]

It's interesting that there are a few worship songs that I remember primarily through imagery.  There was a small Deaf group in our church for awhile.  A friend who was a translator and a handful of Deaf people she invited.  My wife and I started learning ASL (American Sign Language) and became part of that group.  We even got Deaf names after awhile.  Sadly, she moved away and the Deaf group faded away.

There are a few songs now that when I hear them, I now primarily see my friend signing.  One of the cool things is that she was fairly fluent in ASL (not Deaf level native, but could fit in with native Deaf signers using ASL)  and not merely the all too common Signing Exact English which is what is often used in worship music interpretation.  As an FYI, ASL is a complete language with a grammar and word order different from English, it is not merely English set to signs.   Her signing would often float between ASL and holding close to the lyrics.  She was also quite energetic and passionate so she often threw her heart and soul into worship.  In one sense, she was signing to God and letting us watch rather than interpreting for others.   When interpreting sermons and other things, she was much more formal, but worship was different.

 

[turtletwo]

2 hours ago, GandalfTheWise said:

There was a small Deaf group in our church for awhile.  A friend who was a translator and a handful of Deaf people she invited.  My wife and I started learning ASL (American Sign Language) and became part of that group.

Cool! As someone who has loved music all my life (Grandma said I already sang along with the radio when I was age three ), I have always had a heart for the deaf. I wondered to myself, "What would life be like without this wonderful thing we call music?" I also thought it was sad that churches seldom ever acknowledged the needs of the deaf by someone signing in the worship portion of the service. 

3 hours ago, GandalfTheWise said:

 Sadly, she moved away and the Deaf group faded away.

That's a shame. You were blessed, though to get a chance to witness this ministry up close and personal for a time. I never have, sadly.

The first time I became aware of sign language and music together was when I watched the Rambos (parents and daughter, Reba) on television. Dottie wrote some of the most anointed Christian songs in our generation. When Reba signed along to "I call Him Lord" I thought it was just beautiful! I pasted the link below so you can view it. Let me know what you think.

Could you please tell me if Reba is using ASL in this video? If not, in what way does it (her signing method) differ from it? I can follow (to some degree) her motions/gestures matching up with the words that are sung. How about you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOJn5VCOrNQ

 

Then, I found a newer one that says it is ASL. Thought you would enjoy it.  It is to Casting Crown's powerful song, "Praise You in this Storm."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6_Q_UUDsEw

3 hours ago, GandalfTheWise said:

ASL is a complete language with a grammar and word order different from English, it is not merely English set to signs.   Her signing would often float between ASL and holding close to the lyrics.  She was also quite energetic and passionate so she often threw her heart and soul into worship.  In one sense, she was signing to God and letting us watch rather than interpreting for others.   When interpreting sermons and other things, she was much more formal, but worship was different.

Thanks for sharing. I found this interesting and informative. I was not aware there was more than one type of sign language.

I know when Reba signs she seems reverent, worshipful and free flowing. Hard to capture in words. But I find it mesmerizing. I think you described it well. The passion is a part of it. It goes beyond praising Him with just our mouths when we put our hands and/or bodies into it. I have watched Messianic worship on videos (Example: Ted Pearce concerts on YouTube.) I love the freedom, exuberance and gracefulness in their dance worship. That is the only comparison I can think of. 

3 hours ago, GandalfTheWise said:

Her signing would often float between ASL and holding close to the lyrics.

Can you expand a bit on what you meant by this? Thanks. 

Was ASL hard to learn?

3 hours ago, GandalfTheWise said:

It's interesting that there are a few worship songs that I remember primarily through imagery.

That's neat. I wonder if this ties in with the old adage, 'A picture is worth a thousand words.' Mental snapshots seem to be a part of memory.

They say children learn most by what they see. In Sunday School, I recall the importance of visual aides...such as those pre-cut felt Bible figures for flannel boards. Fun but meaningful times for me. 

 

[GandalfTheWise]

@turtletwo

A good source for ASL is www.lifeprint.com.   As it turns out, there is no one sign language around the world.  There is as much diversity in signed languages around the the world as spoken ones.   Historically, it turns out ASL is more closely related to French sign language than British.  Long story from centuries ago.  

I'd also note that the term Deaf (capital D) refers to the community of people who are fluent in ASL in contrast to deaf (small d) which refers to the physical condition.  The Deaf community largely consists of deaf individuals, children of Deaf adults who grew up learning ASL in their home from their parents, friends and family who've learned ASL, and interpreters.  

My understanding is that Signing Exact English (SEE) was designed for interpreting in the classroom back in the era where the experts thought it was best for physically deaf and hard-of-hearing students not to sign but to learn English.  It was a way of transliterating English into signs.  There were different signs for adding things like -ing, -ed, -ly, and other word endings onto the end of words.  The goal was to represent all parts of English in sign language. 

I'll try to do part of this paragraph about ASL with glosses (as I recall the correct term to be).  This is representing with one ASL sign with an approximate English word.  This completely misses all facial expressions and nuances and positioning of signs.   My ASL is very rusty so don't take this as definitive.   ASL S-E-E BIG DIFFERENT.   ASL S-E-E NOT NOT SAME.  ASL LANGUAGE REAL.  ALL DEAF SIGN ASL.  ASL EASY SHORT SIMPLE.  S-E-E SLOW.  (in) BEGINNING HEARING (people) SIGN ENGLISH.  (in) FUTURE HEARING (person) SIGN ASL IF PRACTICE HARD.    This is not to create the impression that ASL is some sort of simplified pidgin or creole of English, it is not.  It is a full blown language that in some ways is more concise and expressive than English.  Whereas English uses synonyms to express nuances of meaning (e.g. large, big, huge, gigantic), ASL will take the sign for BIG and enlarge the hand movement and facial expressions to change the meaning from BIG  to BIG!!! to BBBIIIIGGGGGG!!!!!!!    In one sense, ASL grammar can be see as visually setting a stage for a play to be acted out.   The order of signs tends to be from the most encompassing concept working down to the detail.   Thus, something like A small brown mouse happily lived in a small white house by the sea becomes something like  SEA (then next to the location where SEA was signed) HOUSE (showing the house was next to the sea).  Instead of signing SMALL, the sign for house might be done with a small gesture. Then WHITE to indicate color of the house.    Then in one way of telling the story...    WHAT LIVE THERE?  (aimed toward where HOUSE was signed).    MOUSE (signed with a small gesture) BROWN.  (He)  VERY HAPPY.   So in glosses, the story becomes  SEA HOUSE SMALL WHITE WHAT LIVE THERE? MOUSE SMALL BROWN VERY HAPPY, but this leaves out all the nuances and facial expressions that would go with the signs as well as the position and size of the signs.

Then, in between ASL and SEE is contact signing.  This is basically a polite phrase for the signing of hearing people who are trying to learn ASL and keep resorting to English word order and fingerspelling words because they cannot express themselves in ASL.   More patient ASL signers will adapt their signing to a novice in ASL probably much like we use simpler words and grammar when speaking to a child.  I've noticed that many videos and people incorrectly call all signing ASL or sign language without distinguishing SEE, Contact Signing, or ASL, as well as not noting there are many different sign languages around the world.

The two videos come out as much closer to contact signing than ASL.  Often, (for better or worse), most sign language interpretation of worship songs tends to be done more like contact signing where the signs follow the lyrics.   If you are seeing roughly one sign per sung word in time with the music, it's closer to SEE or some type of contact signing.   That's not a bad thing, it's just not the way ASL would express it.  My friend would usually follow word order but would shift to ASL when some phrases or lines were simply too awkward to sign word for word.   Many ASL interpreters do interpret songs in something closer to contact signing.   Deaf Christians will need to comment about which they prefer and the pros and cons of each.  I can merely note that there are differences.   I've also seen interpretations of worship songs that are definitely ASL whereby sign order and ASL usages of pronouns and other things are used.  For example look up  "Keith Wann ASL Song My Savior".  Note that his signs lag the lyrics by about a line.   Keith is a comedian using ASL.  He's the hearing child in a Deaf family and natively signs ASL.  His routines sometimes include an ASL to English interpreter for the hearing people in the audience.  Some of his videos are funny (though with some PG rated language at times).  "Keith Wann Deaf Driver" is a short somewhat easy to understand skit (with a bit of PG language from the English interpreter near the beginning).  It is a combination of ASL and ad lib gestures that tell a story.

[turtletwo]

 My feeble attempt at a definition of scripture songs:

Songs that include scriptures (sometimes set to music) where the words from scripture are being sung. This was the case with David and the Psalms. We know he played the harp.

But we know from scripture that other instruments have been used in worship back in those days. 

There is a scripture song that speaks of this taken from psalm 148 and psalm 150 which you can find on YouTube by typing in

Hallelujah - LAMB - JOEL CHERNOFF THE OFFICIAL CHANNEL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elx5sxJuLpM

There is a list of multiple instruments:

Psalm 150

3	Praise him with the sound of the trumpet:          praise him with the psaltery and harp.
4	Praise him with the timbrel and dance:          praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
5	Praise him upon the loud cymbals:          praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
	Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Note: psaltery=lute or lyre (harp with twelve strings), timbrel=tambourine

Edited September 4, 2018 by turtletwo
added info

[turtletwo]

I thought I would use this thread as a place to share scripture songs that have played a part in your own life and that you think might bless others.

I will post suggestions for you to find on YouTube.

First suggestion  :  Type in "Psalm 61 Matthew Ward"

If anyone has any to share...please post the words to be typed.

[turtletwo]

Does anyone remember this one from Isa 55:12?

When I was younger I went to a church that had some choruses we'd sing that came straight out of scripture. One of my favorites was this:

You Shall Go Out With Joy

by Stuart Dauermann And Steffi Geiser Rubins

 

You shall go out with joy

And be let forth with peace 

The mountains and the hills

Will break forth before you

 

There will be shouts of joy And all the trees of the fields

Will clap, will clap their hands

 

And all the trees of the fields will clap their hands (We'd then clap)

The trees of the fields will clap their hands (clap) 

The trees of the fields will clap their hands (clap again)

While you go out with joy

�1975 Words and Music by Stuart Dauermann & Steffi Geiser Rubins

It is set to a lively tune. And you sing it faster each time you repeat the chorus.  A fun song for the congregation to participate in. 

A version of it like I've described can be found on YouTube by typing in: "you shall go out with joy" (by uploader Alice Peter)