JohnKing67 Posted September 24, 2018 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/09/1967 Author Share Posted September 24, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Billiards Ball said: It doesn't matter whether a born again person sins once daily, thrice daily or once per decade. Salvation comes through JESUS CHRIST, not through our repentance, prayer, works or anything else. By the way, Christianity looked "weak" when Jesus died on the cross, wasn't that the Pharisees' point? Of course we do have to ask for salvation which could be said to be a prayer. If we don't ask how can we receive it? Edited September 24, 2018 by JohnKing67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKing67 Posted September 24, 2018 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/09/1967 Author Share Posted September 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Billiards Ball said: If salvation keeps a person from every sin/all sin, much of the New Testament makes no sense at all. Why would there be hundreds of NT verses admonishing "us", the "church", "we believers", etc. to avoid the "sin that so easily entangles US"? Salvation is meant to keep a person from sin, but it's not automatic. It does require staying strong in the faith. You can become weak by being careless about prayer, Bible reading, etc. I would disagree with those who say there's no work to staying saved. Maybe getting saved is not through works but staying saved does require work and discipline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted September 25, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.88 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 25, 2018 55 minutes ago, JohnKing67 said: Salvation is meant to keep a person from sin, but it's not automatic. It does require staying strong in the faith. You can become weak by being careless about prayer, Bible reading, etc. I would disagree with those who say there's no work to staying saved. Maybe getting saved is not through works but staying saved does require work and discipline. Mixing works with grace cancels grace.it also adds to Paul’s Gospel thAt saves if merely BELIEVED.You are on dangerous ground.Your Gospel is accursed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted September 25, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted September 25, 2018 2 hours ago, JohnKing67 said: Of course we do have to ask for salvation which could be said to be a prayer. If we don't ask how can we receive it? Yes, we ask. Once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted September 25, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted September 25, 2018 1 hour ago, JohnKing67 said: Salvation is meant to keep a person from sin, but it's not automatic. It does require staying strong in the faith. You can become weak by being careless about prayer, Bible reading, etc. I would disagree with those who say there's no work to staying saved. Maybe getting saved is not through works but staying saved does require work and discipline. Just replace saved in your paragraph with sanctification and you are correct. Saved and sanctified are too different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKing67 Posted September 25, 2018 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/09/1967 Author Share Posted September 25, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Blood Bought 1953 said: Mixing works with grace cancels grace.it also adds to Paul’s Gospel thAt saves if merely BELIEVED.You are on dangerous ground.Your Gospel is accursed. I think using salvation as a license to sin is the gospel that's accursed. How would you get around the works of the flesh mentioned by Paul in the New Testament? That those who do them will not inherit the kingdom of God. He doesn't say if you're saved you get a free pass. Edited September 25, 2018 by JohnKing67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted September 25, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.88 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 25, 2018 To repent means to see you are a sinner that needs a Savior.The first half of Paul’s Gospel deals with that—- “Christ died for our sins”.That realization is the repentance God demands.You can’t be saved without it.You indeed will perish, as you say.The second half of the Gospel in 1 cor15:1-4 declares Jesus died and rose from the dead.Simply believe both halves of the Gospel and you are saved.If you try to add your works to what Christ alone accomplished at the cross ,you are perverting the Gospel and Christ’s death is of no benefit to you.You are accursed.Paul said it, not me.If and when you truly believe Christ died for ALL your sins, you will abandon your works and rest.When, not if, you sin, you will be sorry for it.That could be considered a type of repentance,but it is to maintain fellowship and peace with God.You can experience that type of repentance every day.The repentance that showed you that you ain’t as good as you think you are and you need a Savior is a one time event that stays with you.You could call it humility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKing67 Posted September 25, 2018 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/09/1967 Author Share Posted September 25, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said: To repent means to see you are a sinner that needs a Savior.The first half of Paul’s Gospel deals with that—- “Christ died for our sins”.That realization is the repentance God demands.You can’t be saved without it.You indeed will perish, as you say.The second half of the Gospel in 1 cor15:1-4 declares Jesus died and rose from the dead.Simply believe both halves of the Gospel and you are saved.If you try to add your works to what Christ alone accomplished at the cross ,you are perverting the Gospel and Christ’s death is of no benefit to you.You are accursed.Paul said it, not me.If and when you truly believe Christ died for ALL your sins, you will abandon your works and rest.When, not if, you sin, you will be sorry for it.That could be considered a type of repentance,but it is to maintain fellowship and peace with God.You can experience that type of repentance every day.The repentance that showed you that you ain’t as good as you think you are and you need a Savior is a one time event that stays with you.You could call it humility. I agree with what you're saying about what needs to be done to find salvation. My issue is what salvation is supposed to be once you're saved. My understanding is that Jesus comes into my heart/spirit and lives his life through me. I take on the righteousness of God, not my own righteousness, or lack thereof. So if I now have the righteousness of God how can I be allowed to sin? If I'm supposed to be, as Jesus said, perfect as my heavenly father is perfect, then the standard can't be less than perfect freedom from sin. If I'm still allowed to sin and be saved that would be a poor testimony for the righteousness of God which I am supposed to represent. I would no longer be perfect as my father. Edited September 25, 2018 by JohnKing67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted September 25, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.88 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 25, 2018 “ Abraham BELIEVED God and it was COUNTED to him as righteousness” That’s the same as being “perfect”. Notice it does not say Abe was righteous. He was COUNTED as righteous. Big difference.Its no different from us.We believe the Gospel that saves. 1cor15:1-4 .It is God’s promise.We Believe our promise given to us by Jesus through His mouthpiece Paul, and God declares us perfect.No man can actually BE perfect in this sinful flesh so let’s get it God’s way—- FAITH. As Paul asked in his day...”did you get saved by keeping the Law or by believing?” Why trust keeping the Law now to keep you saved if obeying the Law was not the thing that GOT you saved?You finish the way you started....trusting God. The righteous shall LIVE by faith.Practice faith and God will put His Spirit in you and you will FIND yourself doing the things that please God without trying so hard,worrying that if you slip up He will cast you into Hell.Grace will cover all your sins Heavenly speaking, but you will be chastised on this Earth as part of God’s way to mold you and transform you into the image of His Son, which is the sole purpose of this life.Believe the Gospel, don’t curse yourself by adding to it and relax a little.God bless.I will be praying for your understanding of these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKing67 Posted September 25, 2018 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/09/1967 Author Share Posted September 25, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said: “ Abraham BELIEVED God and it was COUNTED to him as righteousness” That’s the same as being “perfect”. Notice it does not say Abe was righteous. He was COUNTED as righteous. Big difference.Its no different from us.We believe the Gospel that saves. 1cor15:1-4 .It is God’s promise.We Believe our promise given to us by Jesus through His mouthpiece Paul, and God declares us perfect.No man can actually BE perfect in this sinful flesh so let’s get it God’s way—- FAITH. As Paul asked in his day...”did you get saved by keeping the Law or by believing?” Why trust keeping the Law now to keep you saved if obeying the Law was not the thing that GOT you saved?You finish the way you started....trusting God. The righteous shall LIVE by faith.Practice faith and God will put His Spirit in you and you will FIND yourself doing the things that please God without trying so hard,worrying that if you slip up He will cast you into Hell.Grace will cover all your sins Heavenly speaking, but you will be chastised on this Earth as part of God’s way to mold you and transform you into the image of His Son, which is the sole purpose of this life.Believe the Gospel, don’t curse yourself by adding to it and relax a little.God bless.I will be praying for your understanding of these things. Abraham lived under the OT law. Jesus hadn't yet died on the cross for the sins of mankind. We now have a savior who is supposed to live in our spirits. That's how we achieve perfection in the NT, by letting Jesus live his life through us. BTW, I am relaxed. If I seem to be uptight then I apologize. I just feel very strongly about this. Thanks for your reply. Edited September 25, 2018 by JohnKing67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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