Limited Atonement

[enoob57]

1 minute ago, Carrie G said:

Thank you for sharing. It brings back to thinking of myself before I knew I was a sinner and not a good person. The Holy Spirit deeply convicted me when I had an abortion. I went deeper in to drug use before I became broken and reached out to God. I definitely feared God's judgment and being exposed and vulnerable. Eventually I prayed to God for forgiveness. The condemnation lasted decades after though. I had a hard time believing in my heart of hearts that God forgave me. It took many sermons and Bible study on forgiveness. 

We all carry with us the flesh of unbelief … it is why when we walk in The s/Spirit God's Word bears more weight than what we have learned from here in the darkness

1 Cor 13:12

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
KJV

in fact the draw of sanctification is leaving that which God 'IS' not keeping and grasping that which His Word says He 'IS' keeping... for then the values within my Lord's Heart become my values and by this I know Him!

[Carrie G]

15 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

This is where the rubber hits the road … understanding that God has never been willing that any should perish! Knowing that according to God man was created in His image. Now in the simplicity I ask: who has chosen for God for what He Himself 'IS'? Because God 'IS' The Who of all eternity and 'IS' merely by that fact alone 'Who' He 'IS' ~ how shall He in His Sovereignty create His image? God remains Himself Truth and the lie cannot hide this in His Eternity... this same truth set us free from the lie! The most important approach to Rom 9 is keeping with Scripture which bases election and predestination upon the foreknowledge of God that God Himself does not define! Human responsibility has been in place since the beginning of creation...

I'm sorry, I'm not very well versed in the Bible and just trying to understand what it says. Do you believe everyone will be saved?

[enoob57]

Just now, Carrie G said:

I'm sorry, I'm not very well versed in the Bible and just trying to understand what it says. Do you believe everyone will be saved?

How could I when God tells me this

Matt 7:13-14

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
KJV
 

[Carrie G]

2 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

We all carry with us the flesh of unbelief … it is why when we walk in The s/Spirit God's Word bears more weight than what we have learned from here in the darkness

1 Cor 13:12

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
KJV

in fact the draw of sanctification is leaving that which God 'IS' not keeping and grasping that which His Word says He 'IS' keeping... for then the values within my Lord's Heart become my values and by this I know Him!

hmm, very nicely said.

[Carrie G]

3 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

How could I when God tells me this

Matt 7:13-14

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
KJV
 

So you believe that God predestined some for destruction and some to glory?

[enoob57]

5 minutes ago, Carrie G said:

So you believe that God predestined some for destruction and some to glory?

I wait upon God on what criteria He used in His foreknowledge... I know for fact that He has initiated human responsibility since the very begin and continues to do so in New Covenant of His Blood! I am not ashamed to wait upon that which exceeds my ability to ascertain in the immediate- for it is God whom I wait upon! Based upon His statement of not willing any should perish I am fearful to apply His Will to the lost!!!

Edited October 4, 2018 by enoob57

[Carrie G]

3 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

I wait upon God on what criteria He used in His foreknowledge... I know for fact that He has initiated human responsibility since the very begin and continues to do so in New Covenant of His Blood! I am not ashamed to wait upon that which exceeds my ability to ascertain in the immediate- for it is God whom I wait upon! Based upon His statement of not willing any should perish I am fearful to apply His Will to the lost!!!

So you believe it is possible that everyone may in fact be saved based on the fact that God is not willing that any should perish? 

[Guest shiloh357]

34 minutes ago, Carrie G said:

What do you think of Romans 9. Especially Romans 9:22-23 which says: What if God , desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience  vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has  prepared beforehand for glory

Romans 9 is about service, not salvation.   Romans 9 is part of Paul's defense of God's sovereignty with regard to God using Israel as He did in order to bring  uncircumcised Gentiles into the Kingdom of God.  The analogies that Paul uses in that chapter relate to service, how God is sovereign in choosing how He will use us for His purposes.    That's the whole point behind the potter and clay metaphor.  The potter is sovereign over the clay to make it what he wants it to be.   He can make it into an expensive vase that will  sit in Buckingham Palace or he can make into a common water pitcher.  It is solely up to the potter what the clay will be used for.   It is not a metaphor that has anything to do with salvation.

The vessels prepared for destruction refers to those who prepared themselves for destruction.   We know that because the Greek word for "prepared" is in the middle voice.  The middle voice refers to something one does for his or her own interest. God  did not prepare anyone for destruction.

Pharaoh was just such a vessel.  Pharaoh could have, at any time, changed his mind.  But his heart was hardened and he would not obey the Lord and in his hardness, he was finally broken.   But God did not force Pharaoh to rebel.  Pharaoh made his own choice to stand against the Lord.  And the Lord displayed His glory against Pharaoh and broke Pharaoh in the end.

[Carrie G]

4 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Romans 9 is about service, not salvation.   Romans 9 is part of Paul's defense of God's sovereignty with regard to God using Israel as He did in order to bring  uncircumcised Gentiles into the Kingdom of God.  The analogies that Paul uses in that chapter relate to service, how God is sovereign in choosing how He will use us for His purposes.    That's the whole point behind the potter and clay metaphor.  The potter is sovereign over the clay to make it what he wants it to be.   He can make it into an expensive vase that will  sit in Buckingham Palace or he can make into a common water pitcher.  It is solely up to the potter what the clay will be used for.   It is not a metaphor that has anything to do with salvation.

The vessels prepared for destruction refers to those who prepared themselves for destruction.   We know that because the Greek word for "prepared" is in the middle voice.  The middle voice refers to something one does for his or her own interest. God  did not prepare anyone for destruction.

Pharaoh was just such a vessel.  Pharaoh could have, at any time, changed his mind.  But his heart was hardened and he would not obey the Lord and in his hardness, he was finally broken.   But God did not force Pharaoh to rebel.  Pharaoh made his own choice to stand against the Lord.  And the Lord displayed His glory against Pharaoh and broke Pharaoh in the end.

The beginning of Romans 9 starts with Paul being overwhelmed and deeply saddened that not all of Israel will be saved. He then goes into talking about God's sovereign choice to save. 

 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, ¹¹ though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— ¹² she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” ¹³ As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

¹⁴ What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! ¹⁵ For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” ¹⁶ So then it depends not on human will or exertion,^[b] but on God, who has mercy. 

I don't see this meaning service. 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

12 minutes ago, Carrie G said:

The beginning of Romans 9 starts with Paul being overwhelmed and deeply saddened that not all of Israel will be saved. He then goes into talking about God's sovereign choice to save. 

 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, ¹¹ though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— ¹² she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” ¹³ As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

¹⁴ What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! ¹⁵ For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” ¹⁶ So then it depends not on human will or exertion,^[b] but on God, who has mercy. 

I don't see this meaning service. 

 

Really?? because is says the older will serve the younger.  It is about God choosing Jacob over Esau and from Jacob bring forth a nation through whom the Messiah would come.  It has everything to do with service.  Nothing in that is about salvation.   It is a defense against any claim that God was unjust toward Israel.