salvation for the lost

[Ovedya]

What does Ask and ye shall recieve man?

Could that not pertain to the salvation of others?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How will youreceive the salvation of others?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If my hearts desire would line up to God's desire which in this case would be the salvation of a lost soul then I would recieve my heart's desire.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay....In a sense, I suppose that you would. But which is a better prayer in your opinion? "Lord, save..." or "Lord, soften...'s heart to hear the gospel."

I believe that the Lord's actions in arranging a situation for a person's salvation are largely dependent upon our willingness to go out and preach the gospel to them. God helps those who help themselves, in other words.

[Gerioke]

Jesus prays for the disciples and all believers.

John 17:1 Jesus said these things; then, lifting his eyes to heaven, he said, Father, the time has now come; give glory to your Son, so that the Son may give glory to you:

2 Even as you gave him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all those whom you have given to him.

3 And this is eternal life: to have knowledge of you, the only true God, and of him whom you have sent, even Jesus Christ.

4 I have given you glory on the earth, having done all the work which you gave me to do.

5 And now, Father, let me have glory with you, even that glory which I had with you before the world was.

6 I have given knowledge of your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world: yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your words.

7 Now it is clear to them that whatever you have given to me comes from you:

8 Because I have given them the words which you gave to me; and they have taken them to heart, and have certain knowledge that I came from you, and they have faith that you sent me.

9 My prayer is for them: my prayer is not for the world, but for those whom you have given to me, because they are yours

10 (All mine are yours, and yours are mine) and I have glory in them.

11 And now I will be no longer in the world, but they are in the world and I come to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name which you have given to me, so that they may be one even as we are one.

12 While I was with them I kept them safe in your name which you have given to me: I took care of them and not one of them has come to destruction, but only the son of destruction, so that the Writings might come true.

13 And now I come to you; and these things I say in the world so that they may have my joy complete in them.

14 I have given your word to them; and they are hated by the world, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

15 My prayer is not that you will take them out of the world, but that you will keep them from the Evil One.

16 They are not of the world any more than I am of the world.

17 Make them holy by the true word: your word is the true word.

18 Even as you have sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.

19 And for them I make myself holy, so that they may be made truly holy.

20 My prayer is not for them only, but for all who will have faith in me through their word;

21 May they all be one! Even as you, Father, are in me and I am in you, so let them be in us, so that all men may come to have faith that you sent me.

22 And the glory which you have given to me I have given to them, so that they may be one even as we are one;

23 I in them, and you in me, so that they may be made completely one, and so that it may become clear to all men that you have sent me and that they are loved by you as I am loved by you.

24 Father, it is my desire that these whom you have given to me may be by my side where I am, so that they may see my glory which you have given to me, because you had love for me before the world came into being.

25 Father of righteousness, I have knowledge of you, though the world has not; and to these it is clear that you sent me;

26 And I have given to them knowledge of your name, and will give it, so that the love which you have for me may be in them and I in them.

[Gerioke]

What is intercessory prayer?

[Imamom]

I'm a bit confused here yet. I don't see how my praying for someone's heart to soften to Gods word causes someone to be saved. I have prayed for people to accept the love of Jesus in the past and it got nowhere. Isn't it up to the person themself to accept Jesus? I don't see how I can force it on someone. I believe prayer can help but are some people just not destined to be saved due to their own stubborness?

[Ovedya]

I'm a bit confused here yet.  I don't see how my praying for someone's heart to soften to Gods word causes someone to be saved.  I have prayed for people to accept the love of Jesus in the past and it got nowhere.  Isn't it up to the person themself to accept Jesus?  I don't see how I can force it on someone.  I believe prayer can help but are some people just not destined to be saved due to their own stubborness?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course it is up to the individual. But that does not mean that God does not arrange and environment condusive to the preaching of the gospel.

[Gerioke]

What I am getting at though is, wouldn't we be held accountable for the people who are not saved if we didn't witness and pray for them? Why would God ask us to bless our enemies if it served no spiritual advantage?

[Ovedya]

What I am getting at though is, wouldn't we be held accountable for the people who are not saved if we didn't witness and pray for them? Why would God ask us to bless our enemies if it served no spiritual advantage?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are we held accountable for those whom God leads us to preach to that are not saved? No. If God leads us to preach the Gospel to another and we are faithful to do so, then what are we accountable for? Even if that person perishes without having received the Lord, it is not our fault. Because we were faithful to preach the gospel as God commanded.

However, I believe that disobedience to God's commandment in any form will result in punishment. Some have said that the blood of the lost is upon the hands of those that refuse to preach the gospel. But I have not been shown any verses in support of this as of yet. Not saying they don't exist, mind you, but I have not been shown any verses in support of this.

[Gerioke]

I know my train of thought seems to be a little far fetched , but it seems odd to me that a perfect plan that includs witnessing and praying amongst other things would have so many gaps in it that so many would be lost. He wants to save the whole world.

1 Timothy 2

1 I exhort, then, first of all, there be made supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings, for all men:

2 for kings, and all who are in authority, that a quiet and peaceable life we may lead in all piety and gravity,

3 for this is right and acceptable before God our Saviour,

4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;

[Ovedya]

I know my train of thought seems to be a little far fetched , but it seems odd to me that a perfect plan that includs witnessing and praying amongst other things would have so many gaps in it that so many would be lost. He wants to save the whole world.

1 Timothy 2

1 I exhort, then, first of all, there be made supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings, for all men:

2 for kings, and all who are in authority, that a quiet and peaceable life we may lead in all piety and gravity,

3 for this is right and acceptable before God our Saviour,

4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course He wants to save the whole world. But these verses only address God's desire, His heart, not the truth of the matter.

I guess I'm really not following you here, bro. Are you trying to say that God will eventually save the whole world, in spite of what we do? Are you saying that God requires our prayers to save? Or are you saying that our prayers have some kind of supernatural power in and of themselves?

[Gerioke]

Nothing can be accomplished without God's ok. I might be optimistic but I'm not a heretic. Since God is all powerful, is perfect, has a perfect plan to save humanity and so on, why would he let a single person perish? Can good exist in Hell? Can evil exist in Heaven? When all is said and done , doesn't it make sence that all that is evil is contained and separated from all that is good? What is it that makes us aware of our own existance? Is it all good? Is it all bad? Or is there a balance? Does the lake of fire contain whole people , or just the chaff? Are all the scriptures about damnation there to warn the unsaved? or to remind the saved of what we are being saved from?

I hope I'm not getting to kooky here. I don't want to see this thrad disappear so if I am out of line please just delete this post.