An Identity Crisis in the Evangelical Church by Greg Gordon

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16 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

 

I am glad to hear this. I also use these translations. Why is do some of your publications/kindle books use The Message bible?

Thank you for being so responsive.

I quoted the Message bible once in the Headcoverings book which helped make a point, it is a paraphrase of the Bible so can be helpful in a few cases to make things simple to see but also the Message bible makes a lot of confusing and wrong language also. I would never recommend it as a main bible to be read or studied.

[Whistleblower]

English is such confusion : (

One Church. One Christ/Messiah; many flesh temples.

Truth really isn't hard, its pure commen sense that frees ones mind from the solicited theories, philosophies & beliefs of mankind.

The Good News/Gospel begins with Starseed, and only gets better from there : )

The Annointed One Defeated Death. He Sacrificed His flesh body and went to free the dead in hell.

He also Sacrificed it to, Affirm, Confirm and Fufill Our Father Love's. Words of Fact/Truth about Him, The Annointed One, by none other than; Our Fathers annointed oneS, Moses & The Prophets, explained with understanding in both word & example about His Annointed One.

don't compare English with English, the word used in Holy Scriptures that got transliterated into Anti; in reality is; Instead of; and we are surrounded by instead of's.

Rock On the best you can : )

Doesn't really matter what you are temporaly; So long as you never forget what you were Before this Temporal Realm & guaranteed to be again; Thanks be to Christ/Messiah.

NONE ELSE.

The Christ/Messiah is Actual, Factual, Historical, Reality : ) 

Not any solicited belief of mankind.

[sermonindex]

"Irenaeus (died c. 202) quotes and cites 21 books that would end up as part of the New Testament, but does not use Philemon, Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 3 John and Jude.^[4] By the early 3rd century Origen of Alexandria may have been using the same 27 books as in the modern New Testament, though there were still disputes over the canonicity of Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, and Revelation^[5] (see also Antilegomena). Likewise by 200 the Muratorian fragment shows that there existed a set of Christian writings somewhat similar to what is now the New Testament, which included four gospels and argued against objections to them.^[6] Thus, while there was plenty of discussion in the Early Church over the New Testament canon, the "major" writings were accepted by almost all Christian authorities by the middle of the second century.^[7]

The next two hundred years followed a similar process of continual discussion throughout the entire Church, and localized refinements of acceptance. This process was not yet complete at the time of the First Council of Nicaea in 325, though substantial progress had been made by then. Though a list was clearly necessary to fulfill Constantine's commission in 331 of fifty copies of the Bible for the Church at Constantinople, no concrete evidence exists to indicate that it was considered to be a formal canon. In the absence of a canonical list, the resolution of questions would normally have been directed through the see of Constantinople, in consultation with Bishop Eusebiusof Caesarea (who was given the commission), and perhaps other bishops who were available locally."  this is from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_Christian_biblical_canon


Of course local bodies of believers used and had various parts of what we call the canon of Scriptures today. Though there was not a universal acceptance till after the council of Nicea as you have alluded to.  The council of Nicea was very important in the formation of the canon as it was a universal church council and not just a local synod gathering of bishops.   I also meant to say 4th century, thank you for the correction.


Perhaps I can state it differently, the Church gave us the canon of Scripture,  the canon of scripture did not give us the Church.    We cannot divorce the historical church (which includes the authority and tradition of the apostles) from the Scriptures themselves.  But that is the evangelical tendency to over-emphasis the Bible to the point of it being even God (some actually teach this in fundamental circles).   


"If you are a Catholic, you need to just come right out and say it.  Because everything you are hinting around at, early "fathers" or the church". 


I am an evangelical / protestant Christian.  I believe we as evangelicals need to find deeper roots and meaning to our faith, ie what the history of the Church includes and gives us.  So we are not alone to interpret the Bible we have the witness of the early Christians to help.  Who would not want to accept such help, all the historic church did till after the reformation there was "in some" reformation circles the divorcing of the historic church and they went to private interpretation of Scripture and of course many different reformation groups came up with different interpretations of most main practices. 

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26 minutes ago, Davida said:

Is this the olde Roman Catholicism claiming it is "The" church of Christ mentioned in the Bible & the olde refrain that the Reformation was wrong claim by RC follower - rearing it's head again? Lol!  

brother,

I am an evangelical, protestant believer, I think you might have missed the main intention of the post itself.

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16 minutes ago, Davida said:

I think the only Identity Crisis of the Evangelical community is the apostasy from the wolves in sheeps clothing within that are trying to reverse the Reformation and call for the Ecumenical rejoining the the harlot Rc church. 

Ok thank you for a clarification on your beliefs and your comment.  

I would say we do not need to reverse the reformation but restore what we lost during it of the stronger connection to the historic church especially the first 400 years of christianity.  Christianity did not start in AD 1500 ?. I trust that makes sense?

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41 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

would you expand on this please?

The Bible is God - His chosen mouthpiece and manual for us to live by. It is how we learn of Him and about Him. His voice in our lives.

The Bible is the Word of God but not God.   the Holy Trinity is God,  Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I am not trying to convince you of anything, I just wrote the post to encourage people to consider reading one of the disciples of the Apostle John himself and to learn from it, I believe it will help us not hinder.

[frienduff thaylorde]

2 hours ago, Davida said:

I think the only Identity Crisis of the Evangelical community is the apostasy from the wolves in sheeps clothing within that are trying to reverse the Reformation and call for the Ecumenical rejoining the the harlot Rc church. 

And sister ROME is in many churches now .    She has infiltrated and has many protestants now doing her will and trying to UNITE us all together .

I had sooner die ten thousand deaths than join her period .     WE GOT CHRIST and HE IS OUR HOPE .     You loved davida .    And as I say often

I don't care what the pope or emergents or all inclusive pc says about ya .   I loves YA .  we don't heed darkness nor desire its approval   . 

[Mike Mclees]

On ‎11‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 9:02 PM, frienduff thaylorde said:

It goes back father than that .      ALL WE NEED LEARN IS THE BIBLE .   LEARN JESUS , learn the apostles .    

THEN TEST WHAT ANY OTHER CREATURE < SPIRIT < MAN OR BEAST SAYS against THE BIBLE .

For even many in the reformation had error ,    OH YES . 

TO LEARN JESUS , ALL WE NEED IS THE HOLY SPIRIT and THE ALREADY FORMED BIBLE .   ORIGINAL BIBLE .  FOR even some of those early writers ,  HAD A FEW ERRORS TOO .

We don't need this big end time UNITY MOVE .     WE don't need the desert wisdom move hoaxing as THE SPIRIT .

WE NEED JESUS and ONE BOOK .   THE BIBLE .         YES the BIBLE .       OH YES , THE BIBLE .       AND again THE BIBLE .     and one more time for good measure ONLY THE BIBLE .

You are absolutely right Without Jesus and the Bible we have not hope. Get a good Study Bible, pray daily, and a good devotional or two. Church starts with us  and congregation second.  

Blessed are they that hunger and thirst for righteousness for they shall be filled.

[Dennis1209]

I've delved into the study of what our early church fathers thought also, in particular Polycarp and Irenaeus. Polycarp was a disciple and friend of the Apostle John, Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp and most likely met the Apostle John or at least knew him. Consider the following:

A lingering question always bounced in my head, if I were Polycarp or Irenaeus I would be bombarding John with questions and interpretations, hence I went studying and looking at their writings for extra tidbits of information.

I don't know what Polycarp and Irenaeus gleaned from the tutelage of the Apostle John. But based on their writings three things are evident to me;

(1) Both Polycarp and Irenaeus had their own individual interpretation of scripture. It's evident in their writings and subject matter (save the Gospel of course).

(2) The Apostle John evidently didn't teach, explain or reveal to them anymore than what he wrote, and probably didn't at the time understand much of it anyway, except Salvation and Christ.

(3) Scripture and prophecy is of no private interpretation. Just like the Apostle Paul and others being forbidden to write of, or speak of what they heard and seen in Heaven. It appears the Apostle John was forbidden to disclose anything more than he was instructed to write. 

Anyway, the above were the major points I was trying to clear up in my mind. As a general rule, the closer one can get to the source, the more accurate and detailed it is. Then I came back to the incontrovertible, infallible, inerrant, inspired, God breathed word of God. A love letter written to us individually, that has everything in it we ever need to know. 

[Dennis1209]

3 hours ago, Davida said:

I think the only Identity Crisis of the Evangelical community is the apostasy from the wolves in sheeps clothing within that are trying to reverse the Reformation and call for the Ecumenical rejoining the the harlot Rc church. 

You've been listening and watching too much Pope Francis ?