Repentance

[jmwhalen]

... A dead man cannot be be put on trial.

[jmwhalen]

Christ's Free Servant writes:

"Repentance is an act of faith. If I say I believe Jesus died to free me from the penalty of and the bondage to sin, and yet I refuse to repent and I continue in my sin, then I'm a liar. To believe in someone or something means putting my trust in that person or object. If I am on the 5th floor of a burning building and the only way to safety is to jump out of the window into a net, that takes faith, and faith is total commitment. There is no half way. I can't stop part way down and hem haw around and vacillate between staying in the burning building or jumping to safety. There is no middle ground. And, I can't hold on to the burning building and try to reach for the safety net, because no. 1, my arms won't stretch that far, and no. 2, the safety net will be set on fire.

But, this is what many people try to do. They think if they acknowledge that Christ died for their sins - I acknowledge that the safety net can save me - and if they "receive" Christ as their savior, whatever that means - I receive the safety net??? - then they are saved. But where is the commitment? Where is the faith? Where is the evidence that faith exists? The Bible says that when Jesus called his disciples that they left EVERYTHING and followed him. That is total commitment! That is what repentance is about. Did the disciples ever mess up? Sure!! Did they ever struggle with lack of faith? Sure!! So, they weren't perfect. But, they were going in the right direction. So, they weren't perfect. But, they were going in the right direction. "

____________________

No, faith is taking God at His word, and repentance is "changing your mind".

"yet I refuse to repent and I continue in my sin, then I'm a liar."

You just indicted yourself, since no one, you and me both, stops sinning. And once again, your defintion of sin is misguided. Sin is not just "wrong doing", it is "wrong being". Read my previous posts.

" faith is total commitment."

No, "total committment" is service, not justification. Have you "totally committed" yourself? How much committment? 89%? You confuse service with salvation.

"Jesus called his disciples that they left EVERYTHING and followed him. That is total commitment!"

And that is service, not salvation. . And none of them had "total committment" anyways-none of them even believed, after the fact, that the Lord Jesus Christ rose from the dead. The disciples were chosen(the meaning of the term "elect") for service. Judas was chosen for service.

And this was prior to the Cross-Mt.-John is LAW GROUND.

"So, they weren't perfect. But, they were So, they weren't perfect. But, they were going in the right direction

And God's standard is PERFECTION. "going in the right direction" is not the basis of justification.

Faith/Grace

The Lord God justifies the ungodly-"Christ died for the ungodly", "when we were without strength"(we have no power within ourselves to save ourselves), "while we were yet sinners", and "while we were enemies"(Romans 5:6-10)-no "fixin' yourself up" prior to justification. The "fixin' up" comes after you are saved-your sanctification, your "walk". The biblical order is SONSHIP, then SERVICE. Reversing this order, and thus"Fixin' yourself up"("work") is service that God expects from those who are already his own, those that have already been "bought with a price", those who have been "set apart for his use"(the meaning of santification), but is not the basis of his acceptance. This would be presenting a "claim", a debt to God(Romans 4:4), for a gift, and thus it would nullify it as a gift, i.e., "what can I do to earn this gift?" When you get paid at work, you are receiving something that is earned. Your employer owes it to you-it is a legally enforeceable debt(again, Romans 4:4)-it is not a gift. Do you ever thank your employer for your paychech at work? I don't. They are just paying me what they owe me. If I didn't work, they would owe me nothing, and would pay me nothing. But when I receive a gift from someone, I thank them out of gratitude, not out of obligation.

Grace

In the English language grace is a word with a wide variety of meanings. It might mean beauty of form or movement, as graceful. It can refer to an attractive quality in persons, like kindness. A period of time in which payments or judgments are withheld is called a grace period. In religious circles it could mean a spiritual gift.

What we want, however, is to discover what the word means in Scripture, And there dictionary definitions will not always do. God has to take ordinary words and invest them with extraordinary meanings in order to reveal heavenly and spiritual truths. We must note how He uses a particular word in the Bible to discover its real meaning. When that is done grace is seen to be the infinite love of God, set free by the death of Christ, manifesting itself in the bestowal of measureless blessings on the believer in Christ. It indicates not only His kindness and goodness but reveals the very heart of God. It speaks of that which moved Him to save the lost.

[jmwhalen]

Hi, all, I've just spent about an hour reviewing this thread, I think I was side-tracked when the board was hacked. So I'll be brief as always and start at the beginning and throw in some thoughts of my own.

Repentance, one of the most misunderstood words in the bible and yet one of the most, if not the most, important,because without repentance there is no salvation. None. There's nothing psychological about repentance You can't psyche yourself into it, you have to put your whole body, heart and soul into it. Not think it, but do it. and unlke confession, it's not a repetitive exercise you do on a daily basis, but an ongoing exercise that never ceases. Jesus, said it in Lukes gospel,13:3 Repent or perish. No good asking to be forgiven and for Christ to come into your life if you are not prepared to repent. Jesus said you have to deny yourself of everything take up the cross and follow him. If the devil is getting in the way, rebuke him again and again for greater is He who is in you than he that is in the world. You will have the victory, you can count on Him, or He wouldn't have said it.

Then and only then you can confess you're a sinner and need of forgiveness and salvation,

Well, that's my take on it."

___________

"you have to put your whole body, heart and soul into it"

And again, no one does this-this is service. Have you put your WHOLE body, heart, and soul into it? I have not, and neither have you.

"No good asking to be forgiven and for Christ to come into your life if you are not prepared to repent"

Justification has nothing to do with "asking to be forgiven", and "asking...for Christ to come into your life". We are to believe 1 Cor. 15:1-4. My sin was judged 2000 years ago, and all of my sins were forgiven. The cross of the Lord Jesus Christ, and His resurrection, took care of the sin issue completely.

" Jesus said you have to deny yourself of everything take up the cross and follow him."

And this is LAW GROUND. And this is service, not salvation.

In Christ,

John M. Whalen

[dgolvach]

a) I occasionaly sin but I no longer have habitual sins.

Here is the problem with above... No one is claiming to be 100% surrendered. No one on this thread claims 100% sinlessness, so the above rant is really kind of pointless. The Christian continues to grow each day, and each day is an opportunity to surrender, an opportunity to repent. As a Christian grows in Christ, as he matures, he sees in his life sinful areas that he needs to surrender to the Lord. This is a process, not a one time fix all.

Exactly...so if your not 100% surrendered how can you be an A? How can you be 95% surrendered? It takes a 100% surrender to not continue be active in the sin. Were you not saved during your period as a B?

I'm only using A and B to keep from writing out the descriptions over and over by the way. The point is, the hoops and hurdles one would have to jump through and over to reach a state of salvation as defined here are impossible. If someone says he or she meets these terms, I believe they need to examine themselves a bit more. The standard that God has set is far far far far far above what anyone here or anywhere else could ever live up to. God is so Holy that in our present bodies, we would surely die if we were to see him. (The Father) But we have those who appearently believe that they have overcome the flesh enough to do so. This is not possible with men. The standard is absolute perfection exactly like Jesus. This is the only thing acceptable to God. This is why we must have Jesus in us. The proper responce to such a favor is a life that glorifies God. However, if our lives glorified him 100%, we would not need his grace.

God Bless

Dan

[tsth]

Dear John,

I believe that you misunderstand the power of Grace and what It/He accomplishes in us, in regard to sin.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

15 Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.

You don't have to look very hard, in the NT passages to see what the "Power of God's Grace" is able to work in us. But it is not forced upon us. We must be in agreement with Him, to do His Will, lest we frustrate and insult the Spirit of grace.

Hebrews 10: 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

In His Truth,

Suzanne

[jmwhalen]

This was today's devotion by Blackaby.  Too timely:

REPENTANCE

6/3/2005 

Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."

-- MARK 1:14-15

Repentance is one of the most positive of all words. John the Baptist centered his preaching on repentance (Matt. 3:2, Mark 1:4, Luke 3:3). Jesus also preached repentance, commanding His disciples to do likewise (Mark 1:14-15; Luke 24:47). The angel predicted that the Messiah would save His people from their sins (Matt. 1:21). The requirement for this salvation would be repentance. To repent means to stop going one direction, to turn around completely, and to go the opposite way. Repentance involves a dramatic and decisive change of course. God urges us to repent when the path we are taking leads to destruction. Repentance will save us from disastrous consequences! What a wonderful word! How comforting that the Creator loves us enough to warn us of impending danger! Our problem is that we think of repentance as something negative. When we recognize our sin, we prefer to "rededicate" our lives to God. We may even tell others we have resolved to be more faithful to God than we were before we failed Him. Yet the Bible does not speak of rededicating oneself. It speaks of repentance! Repentance indicates a decisive change, not merely a wishful resolution. We have not repented if we continue in our sin! Repentance involves a radical change of heart and mind in which we agree with God's evaluation of our sin and then take specific action to align ourselves with His will. A desire to change is not repentance. Repentance is always an active response to God's word. The evidence of repentance is not words of resolve, but a changed life.

In His Love,

Suzanne

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

__________

No, repentance is a change of mind.

"We have not repented if we continue in our sin"

Such self righteosness. Please tell everyone you have stopped sinning. You again confuse justification with sanctification.

"The evidence of repentance is not words of resolve, but a changed life".

A health club can change lives-that does not make it the gospel of Christ. Muslims have changed lives, as to Jews................

How much of my life must I change to be justified? "Changed life" is sanctification.

You are perverting the gospel of Christ, making what you do the basis of justification, instead of what the Savior already did for you.

In Christ,

John M. Whalen

[tsth]

You are perverting the gospel of Christ, making what you do the basis of justification, instead of what the Savior already did for you.

There is no perversion, unless you deny His Word. God's Word can stand alone, without any explanation. I merely have faith that if He says His grace is sufficient for me, then it is. If His power was sufficient to overcome death itself, then it is sufficient to overcome any sin as well.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Dear John,

I believe that you misunderstand the power of Grace and what It/He accomplishes in us, in regard to sin.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

15 Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.

You don't have to look very hard, in the NT passages to see what the "Power of God's Grace" is able to work in us.  But it is not forced upon us.  We must be in agreement with Him, to do His Will, lest we frustrate and insult the Spirit of grace.

Hebrews 10: 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

In His Truth,

Suzanne

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[tsth]

John 5:14 Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, "See, you have been made well. Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you."

Joh 8:11 She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said to her, "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more."

???

In His Love,

Suzanne

[jmwhalen]

John 5:14 Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, "See, you have been made well. Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you."

Joh 8:11 She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said to her, "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more."

???

In His Love,

Suzanne

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

_____________

You continually go to LAW GROUND, and to scripture given to the Jews in the Tribulation, when the "rules of the kingdom" will once more be in effect. The Lord Jesus Christ was born under the law, and taught his followers to obey the Law. The commands you sight are LAW GROUND prior to the cross. Our doctrine for this "dispensation of the grace of God"(Eph. 3:2) is given in Romans-Philemon.

The apostle Paul is the authority, by command from the Lord Jesus Christ, in this dispensation. The Lord Jesus Christ gave Paul the plan. Paul clearly stated that works are excluded in Eph. 2:8-9. Paul clearly told his readers that they were "dead in their trespasses and sins.....". God, who is rich in mercy and full of grace, gave us spiritual life even in this condition by believing in what His son did-his atoning sacrifice and his resurrection.

A dead person cannot make the Lord Jesus Christ Lord of their life, and this is not salvation, but service. God makes spiritually dead people alive- making them alive "in Christ". God seats the newly saved people in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus and instructs them through grace to live and walk in the resurrected life of the Lord Jesus Christ. As we live in walk in our new ways(santification), we learn about the Lord Jesus Christ's lordship in our lives and in our walk. Jesus Christ is first our Saviour, the Saviour. And once we know Him as our Saviour, we get to know Him as our Lord in the sense of master, ruler, owner(the processs of santification). This is the process of growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. But it is not something we have to attain to prior to Him becoming our Saviour by faith.I

n Christ,

John M. Whalen

[Guest shiloh357]

a) I occasionaly sin but I no longer have habitual sins.

Here is the problem with above... No one is claiming to be 100% surrendered. No one on this thread claims 100% sinlessness, so the above rant is really kind of pointless. The Christian continues to grow each day, and each day is an opportunity to surrender, an opportunity to repent. As a Christian grows in Christ, as he matures, he sees in his life sinful areas that he needs to surrender to the Lord. This is a process, not a one time fix all.

Exactly...so if your not 100% surrendered how can you be an A? How can you be 95% surrendered? It takes a 100% surrender to not continue be active in the sin.

I'm only using A and B to keep from writing out the descriptions over and over by the way. The point is, the hoops and hurdles one would have to jump through and over to reach a state of salvation as defined here are impossible. If someone says he or she meets these terms, I believe they need to examine themselves a bit more. The standard that God has set is far far far far far above what anyone here or anywhere else could ever live up to. God is so Holy that in our present bodies, we would surely die if we were to see him. (The Father) But we have those who appearently believe that they have overcome the flesh enough to do so. This is not possible with men. The standard is absolute perfection exactly like Jesus. This is the only thing acceptable to God. This is why we must have Jesus in us. The proper responce to such a favor is a life that glorifies God. However, if our lives glorified him 100%, we would not need his grace.

God Bless

Dan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dan according to your A & B description an "A" person is not sinless, they simply do not commit the sames sins habitually. Seeing oneself as an "A" does not denote perfection. How can I be an "A" if I am not 100% surrendered? Well #1, We are in a growing process and a sanctification process. The more we stay in the Word, the more the Holy Spirit is able to convict us of areas in our life that need to be given over to the Lord. We cannot surrender what we cannot see. So the question is NOT, "Are you 100% surrendered?" The question is, "have you surrendered 100% of what you KNOW is sinful in your life, or are you willfully continuing in what you have been convicted of by the Holy Spirit?"

and #2, I sense a bit of unfairness in your approach to your "A" and "B" question. If we admit we are "A," then you violate your own question, and begin acting as if we are claiming to be lilly white perfect. Basically, the only answer you will believe is "B." Either we answer "B", or the implication is we are lying.

Were you not saved during your period as a B?

Of course I was saved when I was in the "B" category, but I have had to do a lot of surrendering, a lot of giving over to the Lord. It hasn't been easy, and I have had my share of setbacks, but it has been worth it.

God is so Holy that in our present bodies, we would surely die if we were to see him. (The Father) But we have those who appearently believe that they have overcome the flesh enough to do so.

I'm gonna make this real simple for ya Dan: Either cut and paste where ANYONE has ever made such a claim to sinlessness, or cease and desist with the inappropriate and unfounded accusations.