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Larry H

PRETERISM THE NEW FRONTIER

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Greetings

Preterism the "new frontier" in our day is for the reason that in eschatology the Creeds of the middle ages control system theology among Christians.

Essentially there are two camps of preterism for those not familiar with its religious standing I.e.  Partial and full Preterism. The critical difference of concern is PP regard FP heretical mainly because FP believe the second coming of Christ and the resurrection mention in the NT was fulfilled in the first century making it history to us. However this is not suggesting in any way no afterlife following our sojourn on earth in that understanding.

The reason there is some 33 thousand Christian denomination worldwide all thinking individually they have  the correct understanding, including preterist, stems from the fact that what one takes literally in opposition to symbolically.  This also includes the timing of those expressions.

As a side note "The Bible teaches that Christians “should all speak in agreement.” However, many Christian denominations disagree on teachings as basic as what it means to be a Christian. Such denominations cannot all be right."

Since there is nothing new under the sun I thought putting the subject matter of preterism, another " izm" on the table and analyzing it for exploration.

I suppose the key in the concept of this "izm" is the word "when". Or when will these things be/happen. To get a grip on Matthew chapter 24 I believe first reading chapter 23. In my estimation there should not be a separation between the two chapters.

 

Matthew 24:24:1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings.

2 "Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; everyone will be thrown down." 

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

 

Thanks for reading

Kind Regards

Larry

 

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These perspectives such as preterism, futurism and all other isms really exist because of hellenistic systematic theologies. Our theologies such as dispensationalism are good up to a point and can be a good beginning but they only get us so far in understanding the coming of The Lord.

The hebraic perspective of prophecy is pattern. This includes preterism futurism poemisism historisism. In other words preterism is true in much of what it says but wrong in thinking that it's the only right view, end of story. Same with all the other isms. Jesus takes Daniels prophecy of the abomination that was fulfilled with the Grecians and says it will happen again. Jesus ministry was three and a half years and it would seem three and a half years is also given for the rein of the son of perdition in Revelation. 

We think hellenistic because our culture is hellenistic but the bible is middleeastern, it's hebraic and we need to view the bible through he eyes of the apostles and not a western theological philosophy or theology. To understand the coming of Jesus we must understand how the apostles understood these things . Otherwise we just battle back and forth defending our possitions each one of us using the same scriptures to do so.

The challange is not an intellectual mounting of theological proofs but approaching the scriptures with the heart of a child and asking God to teach us. 

There is so much written concerning His coming that being a Full Preterist makes ecumenical unity so much easier in conforming and writing unity doctrine. It's why Brian McClarean of the Emergent Church says the bible is old dusty truth, that is where God was, we need to know where God is today.

So much of the scriptures speaks of our hope in His appearing that having it all fulfilled leads us to a reasonable conclusion that the scritpures are not really for our day. Brian says it is truth but does what the logical thing for a full preterist to do is look elswhere for what is to come.

 Same mistake charasmatics make, shelve the bible, just different subject matter. Same deciever.

 

 

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Well,   where is George when we need Him .    He says he can convince a preterist of their error in twenty mins or less.

I will stick with pauls words ,   they say the resurrection is past already and overthrow the faith of some .

JESUS is coming back , JUST like HE said and will come for His church  .   But those who doubt that ,   wont be caught up with Him.

Better we be watching as our LORD did say .

And i pray whoever just made mention of brian McLaren ,   OH DEAR don't follow nor trust that man .   He went from far wicked to upmost wicked .

I know , i know he smiles a lot , so to this generation it must mean HE KNOWS CHRIST  .    Preterism will lead to the total wrong place .

But , i aint a it surprised if more and more really pile up on its band wagon .   WE are IN THE LAST of times .

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18 minutes ago, Zemke said:

These perspectives such as preterism, futurism and all other isms really exist because of hellenistic systematic theologies. Our theologies such as dispensationalism are good up to a point and can be a good beginning but they only get us so far in understanding the coming of The Lord.

The hebraic perspective of prophecy is pattern. This includes preterism futurism poemisism historisism. In other words preterism is true in much of what it says but wrong in thinking that it's the only right view, end of story. Same with all the other isms. Jesus takes Daniels prophecy of the abomination that was fulfilled with the Grecians and says it will happen again. Jesus ministry was three and a half years and it would seem three and a half years is also given for the rein of the son of perdition in Revelation. 

We think hellenistic because our culture is hellenistic but the bible is middleeastern, it's hebraic and we need to view the bible through he eyes of the apostles and not a western theological philosophy or theology. To understand the coming of Jesus we must understand how the apostles understood these things . Otherwise we just battle back and forth defending our possitions each one of us using the same scriptures to do so.

The challange is not an intellectual mounting of theological proofs but approaching the scriptures with the heart of a child and asking God to teach us. 

There is so much written concerning His coming that being a Full Preterist makes ecumenical unity so much easier in conforming and writing unity doctrine. It's why Brian McClarean of the Emergent Church says the bible is old dusty truth, that is where God was, we need to know where God is today. 

So much of the scriptures speaks of our hope in His appearing that having it all fulfilled leads us to a reasonable conclusion that the scritpures are not really for our day. Brian says it is truth but does what the logical thing for a full preterist to do is look elswhere for what is to come.

 Same mistake charasmatics make, shelve the bible, just different subject matter. Same deciever.

 

 

There is so much written concerning His coming that being a Full Preterist makes ecumenical unity so much easier in conforming and writing unity doctrine. It's why Brian McClarean of the Emergent Church says the bible is old dusty truth, that is where God was, we need to know where God is today.

MAN , my friend , YOU Took the words right outta my mouth .   And its why i aint one ounce surprised more and more will buy into this preterism .

What a deception . 

Spot on .  This might very well be why preterism is not getting warned out against by those of the unity movement .  BUT we better do all to avoid that movement .

Its here in part by the way .  Just watch how it will increase too .  And we gotta expose it .   

no matter what it costs me , i will expose it till my final and last breath .    

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Well watch how fast the NEW FRONTIER is burned up , WHEN JESUS REALLY DOES COME BACK .  Just as HE said , just as paul knew .

Its still a future event .     Because the FINAL FRONTIER WILL BE CHRISTS .

on man ,   someone gotta praise the LORD on that reminder .

I may as well lead the praise .  PRAISE THE LORD one and all, PRAISE THE LORD .

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Me oh my , don't everybody go running to pet the Bengal tiger .      No petting snakes either .

cause if you do , ya might get the tooth or the fang .

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7 hours ago, George said:

Perhaps just a short reading ...

Act 3:18  But what God foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ would suffer, he thus fulfilled. 
Act 3:19  Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out, 
Act 3:20  that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, 
Act 3:21  whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago. 

What is the restoration of ALL THINGS?  And you read about this ... not in the New Testament ... but in the Old Testament ... the prophets from long ago.

For example, we see the restoration of the Animal Kingdom.

Isa 11:6  The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them. 
Isa 11:7  The cow and the bear shall graze; their young shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 
Isa 11:8  The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den. 
Isa 11:9  They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea. 

So if you think we're in the Kingdom ... simply go to the Zoo and play with a Lion!  :)

It's a simple test to show whether or not we're in the Kingdom!

Within the Prophets, you'll see God's plan for the restoration of Israel, and the nations!

Thanks for the responses

I'll stay with a symbolic poetical representation of what the crucifixion has accomplish, and that Jesus did not give his precious life for animals which reside in our local zoo. I believe these verses are about the animal kingdom should be spiritually discerned. 1 Cor. 2:14

Isaiah 11:6

"The wolf also] In this, and the following verses, the prophet describes the effect of his reign in producing peace and tranquility on the earth. The description is highly poetical, and is one that is common in ancient writings in describing a golden age.

The two leading ideas are those of "peace" and "security." The figure is taken from the condition of animals of all descriptions living in a state of harmony, where those which are by nature defenseless, and which are usually made the prey of the strong, are suffered to live in security. By nature the wolf preys upon the lamb, and the leopard upon the kid, and the adder is venomous, and the bear, and the cow, and the lion, and the ox, cannot live together.

But if a state of things should arise, where all this hostility would cease; where the wild animals would lay aside their ferocity, and where the feeble and the gentle would be safe; where the adder would cease to be venomous, and where all would be so mild and harmless that a little child would be safe, and could lead even the most ferocious animals, that state would represent the reign of the Messiah.

Under his dominion, such a change would be produced as that those who were by nature violent, severe, and oppressive; those whose disposition is illustrated by the ferocious and bloodthirsty propensities of the lion and the leopard, and by the poison of the adder, would be changed and subdued, and would be disposed to live in peace and harmony with others. This is the "general" idea of the passage. We are not to cut the interpretation to the quick, and to press the expressions to know what particular class of people are represented by the lion, the bear, or the adder. The "general" image that is before the prophet's mind is that of peace and safety, "such as that would be" if a change were to be produced in wild animals, making them tame, and peaceful, and harmless". from Barnes' Notes

Isaiah 11:6

[The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.] "Then shall the wolf," etc. The idea of the renewal of the golden age, as it is called, is much the same in the Oriental writers with that of the Greeks and Romans:-the wild beasts grow tame; serpents and poisonous herbs become harmless; all is peace and harmony, plenty and happiness:  Adam Clarke's Commentary

Your 20 minutes are up George looking forward to your input 😊

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9 hours ago, Zemke said:

These perspectives such as preterism, futurism and all other isms really exist because of hellenistic systematic theologies. Our theologies such as dispensationalism are good up to a point and can be a good beginning but they only get us so far in understanding the coming of The Lord.

The hebraic perspective of prophecy is pattern. This includes preterism futurism poemisism historisism. In other words preterism is true in much of what it says but wrong in thinking that it's the only right view, end of story. Same with all the other isms. Jesus takes Daniels prophecy of the abomination that was fulfilled with the Grecians and says it will happen again. Jesus ministry was three and a half years and it would seem three and a half years is also given for the rein of the son of perdition in Revelation. 

We think hellenistic because our culture is hellenistic but the bible is middleeastern, it's hebraic and we need to view the bible through he eyes of the apostles and not a western theological philosophy or theology. To understand the coming of Jesus we must understand how the apostles understood these things . Otherwise we just battle back and forth defending our possitions each one of us using the same scriptures to do so.

The challange is not an intellectual mounting of theological proofs but approaching the scriptures with the heart of a child and asking God to teach us. 

There is so much written concerning His coming that being a Full Preterist makes ecumenical unity so much easier in conforming and writing unity doctrine. It's why Brian McClarean of the Emergent Church says the bible is old dusty truth, that is where God was, we need to know where God is today.

So much of the scriptures speaks of our hope in His appearing that having it all fulfilled leads us to a reasonable conclusion that the scritpures are not really for our day. Brian says it is truth but does what the logical thing for a full preterist to do is look elswhere for what is to come.

 Same mistake charasmatics make, shelve the bible, just different subject matter. Same deciever.

 

 

This is the same mistake we all make at times while growing in the faith. Each thinking to some extent having a handle on the truth. No one is left out of the scenario...... we go along with our sinful nature judging others.

The reason some use the same scriptures over and over again ... only do so because they are not challenged or completely ignored. I found this common when preterist present time text which they believe refers to the first century. This is one of the reasons I searched out the theology. BTW for me I found it quite interesting.

There is to much name calling or innuendo's sad to say from preterist and futurist alike. I agree many time there is a game of scriptural ping pong going in the battle for truth. I believe the key after all is said and done .... our goal should be how can we through the Spirit of God if possible create a more intimate relationship with Father and  Jesus Christ. Perhaps something to think about. And to take care of our biological family before spending time trying to save the world. Many people have lost family in the process, many of them were married to an unbeliever. 

1 Timothy 5:8 If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Larry H said:

Greetings

Preterism the "new frontier" in our day is for the reason that in eschatology the Creeds of the middle ages control system theology among Christians.

Essentially there are two camps of preterism for those not familiar with its religious standing I.e.  Partial and full Preterism. The critical difference of concern is PP regard FP heretical mainly because FP believe the second coming of Christ and the resurrection mention in the NT was fulfilled in the first century making it history to us. However this is not suggesting in any way no afterlife following our sojourn on earth in that understanding.

The reason there is some 33 thousand Christian denomination worldwide all thinking individually they have  the correct understanding, including preterist, stems from the fact that what one takes literally in opposition to symbolically.  This also includes the timing of those expressions.

As a side note "The Bible teaches that Christians “should all speak in agreement.” However, many Christian denominations disagree on teachings as basic as what it means to be a Christian. Such denominations cannot all be right."

Since there is nothing new under the sun I thought putting the subject matter of preterism, another " izm" on the table and analyzing it for exploration.

I suppose the key in the concept of this "izm" is the word "when". Or when will these things be/happen. To get a grip on Matthew chapter 24 I believe first reading chapter 23. In my estimation there should not be a separation between the two chapters.

 

Matthew 24:24:1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings.

2 "Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; everyone will be thrown down." 

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

 

Thanks for reading

Kind Regards

Larry

 

Brother, we need the Holy Spirit to be able to rightly divide scripture.  I am out of touch with what is going in Messianism these days, whether there are those among them who are not yet born again or who believe in cessationism (that the things of the Spirit ceased after the early church).  We MUST be born again to be able to see the kingdom of heaven.....and after that receive the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit opens and reveals, the scriptures to our understanding with little intellectual effort on our part...when we are like little children just receiving and believing them.   It is the Father's good pleasure to reveal truth to little children and hide it from the wise and learned.  It's often our carnal mind that gets in the way of being able to receive His simple understandings.  When our own little grey cells start getting too involved it is then we are wresting the scriptures.....leading to wrong conclusions and a dead end.  It's impossible to perceive the things of the spirit without the Holy Spirit...our own minds are of flesh not spirit.

I am hearing more and more of those in the Hebrew roots movement who want to do away with some part of the NT scriptures because they get in the way of their pet theologies...either Paul or the book of Hebrews.  It's hard to think of anything more dangerous, not to mention presumptuous, and it will not end well for those who do that.  We are supposed to be instructed and corrected by those very scriptures they want to do away with, rather than we presume to correct the truth, the word of God.  So it just makes me wonder what on earth is going on in that movement these days.  It makes me VERY frightened for their souls, especially for Jews who might be caught up in these kinds of deceptions....it's tragic.

I just want to add...that without FAITH it is impossible to please God......faith is not of our own, it is of the Holy Spirit.  It's something more than mental belief......mental belief needs to be "helped" by the Helper/Paraclete.  Like the man whose son was possessed by a demon and he said, "Lord I believe, HELP my unbelief".

Edited by Heleadethme
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