Mid Trib rapture anyone?

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Of course it will be Jesus or the Father who signals each angel WHEN to sound their respective trumpet. It is my guess that the first six trumpet judgments will be evenly spaced in the first 3.5 years. Do you disagree?

Hi iamlamad,

Only the first 4 trumpets are in the first part of the trib, the 5th is in the mid trib, and the others are towards the end.

The 5th trumpet releases the demons on to the earth, for Satan is cast out mid trib. (Rev. 12: 7 - 12)

The 6th trumpet releases the angels from the Euphrates to make way for that great army from the East to Armageddon. (Rev. 16: 12 - 16)

The 7th trumpet heralds that the kingdoms of the world have become the kingdom of our Lord and His Christ. And that we know is when the Lord appears out of heaven and deals with the world`s armies, the A/C & False prophet etc. (Rev. 19: 11 - 21) 

Marilyn.

BTW please don`t tell me again that it all has to be chronological. God`s word never says that. There are 4 visions of the unveiling of the Lord by the Father, and they are the dividing points. Remember that many times in scripture God gives an overview and then goes back and does the detail, (Gen. 1 & 2,  Isa. 65: 17 - 25 for eg.)

 

[Marilyn C]

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi iamlamad,

Only the first 4 trumpets are in the first part of the trib, the 5th is in the mid trib, and the others are towards the end.

The 5th trumpet releases the demons on to the earth, for Satan is cast out mid trib. (Rev. 12: 7 - 12)

The 6th trumpet releases the angels from the Euphrates to make way for that great army from the East to Armageddon. (Rev. 16: 12 - 16)

The 7th trumpet heralds that the kingdoms of the world have become the kingdom of our Lord and His Christ. And that we know is when the Lord appears out of heaven and deals with the world`s armies, the A/C & False prophet etc. (Rev. 19: 11 - 21) 

Marilyn.

BTW please don`t tell me again that it all has to be chronological. God`s word never says that. There are 4 visions of the unveiling of the Lord by the Father, and they are the dividing points. Remember that many times in scripture God gives an overview and then goes back and does the detail, (Gen. 1 & 2,  Isa. 65: 17 - 25 for eg.)

 

I will tell it until it all happens and God PROVES it is chronological! 

I will write this yet again:

ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronological is immediately suspect and WILL BE proven wrong.

Marilyn, your theory will be proven wrong. You can take that to the bank, so to speak.  The 7th trumpet will sound when the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is God. And that event, the abomination, will divide the week into two halves.  You seem to know the Old Testament well, you KNOW what happens when anyone but the High Priest enters the most holy place in the temple - and he only once a year!  The temple will be polluted and the daily sacrifices must stop. 

What does Daniel 9:27 tell us: the event that stops the daily sacrifices will divide the week into two halves. John proves this by giving us the last half in days, in months and in years. Jesus warned those living  in Judea to flee immediately that they see this abomination. We see that fleeing begin in 12:6.  Marilyn,  Rev. 12:6 MUST BE just seconds from the abomination Daniel and Jesus spoke of. In other words, the week gets divided BEFORE 12:6. 

This does not fit your theory. Your theory will be proven wrong. 

The 7th trumpet heralds that the kingdoms of the world have become the kingdom of our Lord and His Christ. And that we know is when the Lord appears out of heaven  Marilyn, this  is MYTH because it is not scriptural. It is also human assumption.  Jesus gets His world back at the 7th trumpet all right, but does not take physical possession for another 3.5 years. 

I have a suggestion: dump your theory and form a new one leaving Revelation in the order John wrote it!

There are 4 visions of the unveiling of the Lord by the Father, and they are the dividing points.   You have been proving all along that this theory is MYTH. It is just one more theory from human reasoning. 

many times in scripture God gives an overview and then goes back and does the detail  This is true, but it does NOT HAPPEN in Revelation.

The 5th trumpet releases the demons on to the earth, for Satan is cast out mid trib.   You are mixing up times. The 5th trumpet will come BEFORE the division point.  But you are right, Michael's signal to go will be the 7th trumpet. When he hears the 7th trumpet, he will go after Satan to cast him down. 

The 6th trumpet releases the angels from the Euphrates to make way for that great army from the East to Armageddon. (Rev. 16: 12 - 16)     COMPLETE MYTH! You  are mixing the trumpets with  the vials. Your theory will be proven wrong.

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

MYTH, not following scripture as written.

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi iamlamad,

I think you are going off in your imagining there bro, No scriptures! So let`s really see what God`s word says -

`This is the will of the Father who sent me, that of all He has given me, I should raise it up at the last day.` (John 6: 39)

The Last - Gk. word `eschatos,` meaning  farthest, final place or time.

So we see that that agrees with the scriptures that tell us that the OT saints, (now awaiting in heaven, Heb. 12: 23) will be resurrected and come down with the city, the New Jerusalem, as promised, (Heb. 11: 16) as I wrote before.

The New Heavens and New earth time is the furthest place/time - the last day, the `eschatos` day. 

BTW the Body of Christ is not the wife, Israel is, (as God`s word tells us,  Isa. 54) and thus we will not be at the marriage feast. It is on earth and we will be in heaven. (Rev. 3: 21) The `marriage of the wife and the Lamb,` is to do with God reconnecting with Israel again.

Marilyn.

 

Come on, Marilyn! Wake up! WHERE are their bodies?  They must be resurrected just like the dead in Christ
get resurrected. Matthew 27 tells us SOME of them (probably the elders) get resurrected when Jesus arose.
Notice, "the graves were opened." 

You are missing it yet again, there is a "last day" of the church age - happens at the rapture. Then "time" goes to the Day of the Lord and the 70th week. The 70th week is the final 7 years of JEWISH time - when the Old Covenant finally ends. There will be a "last day" of the 70th
week. It will be the day of the 7th vial. 

Marilyn, go back and read again Rev. 19. Where is Jesus in verse 1? He is IN HEAVEN.  He does not descend until AFTER the marriage proving the marriage is in heaven.  Your theory has been proven wrong yet again. Why not just follow what is written? 

OF COURSE the bride of Christ is the church. John 14 is the picture of a Jewish wedding. The groom goes to prepare a place for His bride. Then, when it is finished, He comes to fetch His bride back to the place prepared.  Your theories are far what I could call normal in the church today. 

[Marilyn C]

7 hours ago, iamlamad said:

 

Hi iamlamad,

I think we are now moving into arguing, so will leave it there, bro. Thank you for the discussion. If Spock wants to comment or ask me a question I will answer, however I think we have both presented our views.

regards, Marilyn.

[Spock]

On 3/12/2019 at 8:14 PM, iamlamad said:

For the umpteenth time, they are in the second half. They have only 3.5 days of witnessing in the first half  That means they have 1260 MINUS 3.5 days in the last half. 1256.5 days. They will lay dead for those 3.5 days and be raised at the 7th vial when ALL the Old Testament saints will be raised.

Then how could the 6th or 7th trumpet be at the midpoint. 

Please read chapter 11 again slowly. The witnesses die and are resurrected and then the 2nd woe has passed. 2nd woe=6th trumpet. 

This has to be at the end of the week LA. Why do you not see this? The WITNESSES DIE TOWARD THE END OF THE WEEK, NOT AT THE MIDPOINT.  

VERY IMPORTANT:  witnesses die=2nd woe=6th trumpet

Tead chapter 11 slowly and take notes. 

Why can’t you see this brother?  Marilyn, please explain it to him. You are a teacher too.

[iamlamad]

46 minutes ago, Spock said:

Then how could the 6th or 7th trumpet be at the midpoint. 

Please read chapter 11 again slowly. The witnesses die and are resurrected and then the 2nd woe has passed. 2nd woe=6th trumpet. 

This has to be at the end of the week LA. Why do you not see this? The WITNESSES DIE TOWARD THE END OF THE WEEK, NOT AT THE MIDPOINT.  

VERY IMPORTANT:  witnesses die=2nd woe=6th trumpet

Tead chapter 11 slowly and take notes. 

Why can’t you see this brother?  Marilyn, please explain it to him. You are a teacher too.

No, my friend, it is not what I can't see, it is what you can't see. You are MISSING something very important.

Rev. 11:4-13 are written as a parenthesis! They are not a part of John's chronology!

EVERY mention of the 1260 days is for the LAST HALF of the week, including the two witnesses 1260 days. 

For chronology:

The man of sin arrives in Jerusalem with Gentile armies, just days before the midpoint :Rev 11:1-2

The two witnesses SHOW UP just 3.5 days before the abomination event that will divide the week.  11:3

The 7th trumpet sounds:  11:14-15  (the man of sin just entered the temple and declared He was God, stopping the sacrifices. [Dan 9:27)

Those who see the abomination begin to flee  Rev. 12:6

Therefore, in chapter 13, the two witnesses are witnessing. 

Therefore, in chapter 14, the two witnesses are still witnessing. 

Therefore, in chapter 15, the two witnesses are still witnessing. 

Therefore, in chapter 16, the two witnesses are still witnessing - right up to 3.5 days before the 7th vial ends the week.

They lay dead for those 3.5 days.

The Old testament saints are resurrected - along with the two witnesses - and the 7th vial ends the week.

This is John's true chronology. If people miss the parenthesis in chapter 11, (most people do) then people think the two witnesses testify in the first half of the week - or they get confused and wonder. 

You see, John INTRODUCES the two witnesses in verse 3, IN John's chronology - but then in a parenthesis takes us on a side journey  down the last half of the week with the two witnesses. 

Maybe this will help:  Rev. 11:

1  And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 

2  But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty andtwo months.

3  And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4  These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5  And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6  These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

7  And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8  And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9  And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10  And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11  And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12  And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13  And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14  The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15  And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever

The faint print is John's parenthesis. No, there are no parenthesis marks in Greek. The only way  to know is through study. You can doubt these verses are a parenthesis, but if you  do, your theory will be wrong. Spock, just so you know, most of chapter 13 is also written as a parenthesis, starting after John gives the Beast his 42 months. After that, John takes us down a rabbit trail or side journey down the last half of the week with the Two beasts only, showing us what they will do later on in the week. But in chapter 14, John is back to shortly after the midpoint abomination.  If people miss this parenthesis, they imagine the mark is established before God gives His warning in chapter 14.

VERY IMPORTANT:  witnesses die=2nd woe=6th trumpet  No, in verse 14 John is just telling us that the 2nd woe is OVER, done with, finished and it is time for the 3rd woe.  The 6th trumpet probably started MONTHS before the time for the 7th trumpet. At the chronological TIME of verse 14, John is telling us all or everything about the 6th trumpet judgment is over. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by iamlamad

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, Spock said:

  Marilyn, please explain it to him. You are a teacher too.

Hi Spock,

I wish I could, but he would hear you more than me. Now I think you have hit on a good chapter there, bro, Rev. 11. It has quite a few good pointers.

regards, Marilyn.

[Spock]

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

No, my friend, it is not what I can't see, it is what you can't see. You are MISSING something very important.

Rev. 11:4-13 are written as a parenthesis! They are not a part of John's chronology!

EVERY mention of the 1260 days is for the LAST HALF of the week, including the two witnesses 1260 days. 

For chronology:

The man of sin arrives in Jerusalem with Gentile armies, just days before the midpoint :Rev 11:1-2

The two witnesses SHOW UP just 3.5 days before the abomination event that will divide the week.  11:3

The 7th trumpet sounds:  11:14-15  (the man of sin just entered the temple and declared He was God, stopping the sacrifices. [Dan 9:27)

Those who see the abomination begin to flee  Rev. 12:6

Therefore, in chapter 13, the two witnesses are witnessing. 

Therefore, in chapter 14, the two witnesses are still witnessing. 

Therefore, in chapter 15, the two witnesses are still witnessing. 

Therefore, in chapter 16, the two witnesses are still witnessing - right up to 3.5 days before the 7th vial ends the week.

They lay dead for those 3.5 days.

The Old testament saints are resurrected - along with the two witnesses - and the 7th vial ends the week.

This is John's true chronology. If people miss the parenthesis in chapter 11, (most people do) then people think the two witnesses testify in the first half of the week - or they get confused and wonder. 

You see, John INTRODUCES the two witnesses in verse 3, IN John's chronology - but then in a parenthesis takes us on a side journey  down the last half of the week with the two witnesses. 

Maybe this will help:  Rev. 11:

1  And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 

2  But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty andtwo months.

3  And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4  These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5  And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6  These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

7  And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8  And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9  And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10  And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11  And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12  And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13  And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14  The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15  And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever

The faint print is John's parenthesis. No, there are no parenthesis marks in Greek. The only way  to know is through study. You can doubt these verses are a parenthesis, but if you  do, your theory will be wrong. Spock, just so you know, most of chapter 13 is also written as a parenthesis, starting after John gives the Beast his 42 months. After that, John takes us down a rabbit trail or side journey down the last half of the week with the Two beasts only, showing us what they will do later on in the week. But in chapter 14, John is back to shortly after the midpoint abomination.  If people miss this parenthesis, they imagine the mark is established before God gives His warning in chapter 14.

VERY IMPORTANT:  witnesses die=2nd woe=6th trumpet  No, in verse 14 John is just telling us that the 2nd woe is OVER, done with, finished and it is time for the 3rd woe.  The 6th trumpet probably started MONTHS before the time for the 7th trumpet. At the chronological TIME of verse 14, John is telling us all or everything about the 6th trumpet judgment is over. 

So that is your explanation to explain away the obvious meaning of the written word....create a man made parenthesis in verses 4-13. 

Well okayyyyyyy, have at it brother. I don’t see it as you do. I see no reason to create the parenthesis so I won’t do it. It makes perfect sense to me to see the 6th trumpet and following 7trumpet at the end of the week.

i know this shoots down your 7-7-7 theory but what can I tell you?  I read the word of God just as you do and I do my best to INTERPRET it accurately just as I know you do. If you see a parenthesis in chapter 11, maybe you are right and my eyes are just darkened. Or, maybe it is you who is wrong and your eyes are confused. We both can’t be right on this....but no big deal.....we both believe we won’t be here to see the two witnesses anyhow, right?  

If we do see them, then may I suggest we both are wrong and go to Plan B.  On a side note, my wife, who studies the word hard as I do believes the rapture will be shortly AFTER the AOD. Naturally she quotes Matthew 24:15 as her primary source for saying that.  So we actually have a bet. So, if we do see the two witnesses, she wins, and I then move to Plan B...probably her theory. Lol

i will keep reading and maybe if your way of interpreting chapter 11 is right, God will open my eyes.....or maybe not. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Spock