Mid Trib rapture anyone?

[Marilyn C]

27 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I think He wanted every generation to think He would come in THEIR generation. I thought there was a verse where Jesus said He came to bring division!  It is truth: the baptists in general are divided against the Pentecostals in general when concerning doctrine.

And it is not God who does that dividing for His Holy Spirit is guiding the believers in to ALL TRUTH. Man`s denominations will always be at odds for they are of MAN. 

The Lord is speaking concerning belief in Himself.

`Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division.` (Luke 12: 51)

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

30 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Same thing: He will sound the trumpet!

Which is His voice. God does not have a man made trumpet in heaven which He blows.

Marilyn.

[iamlamad]

Just now, Marilyn C said:

Which is His voice. God does not have a man made trumpet in heaven which He blows.

Marilyn.

"When the trumpet of the Lord shall sound and time shall be no more..."

There is no verse that comes right out and says it will be His voice. Is God not allowed to sound a trumpet? Can God not made a trumpet in heaven?

[iamlamad]

Just now, Marilyn C said:

And it is not God who does that dividing for His Holy Spirit is guiding the believers in to ALL TRUTH. Man`s denominations will always be at odds for they are of MAN. 

The Lord is speaking concerning belief in Himself.

`Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division.` (Luke 12: 51)

Marilyn.

Marilyn, this is simply not truth. Yes, the Holy Spirit WANTS to lead all people into truth - but the truth is, much of the church world IS NOT LISTENING to Him! This is the very reason we have denominations.

It is because much of the church world has BYPASSED Acts 1 & 2.

Edited March 20, 2019 by iamlamad

[Marilyn C]

26 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Marilyn, this is simply not truth. Yes, the Holy Spirit WANTS to lead all people into truth - but the truth is, much of the church world IS NOT LISTENING to Him!

Hi iamlamad,

The Holy Spirit is sent to lead the BELIEVERS into ALL TRUTH. The Holy Spirit draws those who respond to His calling. Big difference there.

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

28 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

"When the trumpet of the Lord shall sound and time shall be no more..."

There is no verse that comes right out and says it will be His voice. Is God not allowed to sound a trumpet? Can God not made a trumpet in heaven?

`And the first voice which I heard was LIKE A TRUMPET speaking with me...` (Rev. 4: 2)

And that was Jesus who first spoke to John, `Then I turned to see the voice that spoke to me.` (Rev. 1: 12)

Marilyn.

[Spock]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

This is the scripture/s that, I believe nails it for us.

`See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven, whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also the heaven.` (Heb.12: 25 & 26)

And that reference is taken from Haggai.

`For thus says the Lord of hosts: “Once more I will shake heaven and earth, the sea and dry land; and I will shake all nations, and they shall come to the Desire of All Nations,.. (Hag.2: 6 & 7)

So we see that God will shake the heaven and earth ONCE more.

Joel 3: 12 - 16

`Let the nations be wakened and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat; (outside Jerusalem) for there I will sit to judge all the surrounding nations. Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Come, go down; for the winepress is full, the vats overflow - for their wickedness is great.

Multitude, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the Day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.

The sun and moon will grow dark, and the stars will diminish their brightness. The Lord also will roar from Zion, (heaven) and utter His voice from Jerusalem; the heavens and earth will shake, but the Lord will be a shelter for His people, and the strength of the children of Israel.`(Joel 3: 12 - 16)

Clearly that is the shaking God is talking about. There in Joel we see when that will happen. God has brought the world`s armies down from Armageddon, to around Jerusalem to the valley of Jehoshaphat. The heavens shake - the sun, moon and stars and the earth also.

 

Rev. 6: 12 - 17

`I looked when he opened the 6^th seal, and behold, there was a Great Earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the moon became like blood. And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.

Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.

And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” (Rev. 6: 12 - 17)

 

God is describing that He is shaking the heavens and earth here, and thus places this event at the end of the tribulation, just before the Lord returns in power and great glory with His angelic army.

Wow M., 

clap clap, I have to give you props....your analysis of the three earthquakes being one and the same is brilliant. And the way you tied it together with that Haggai passage showing only ONE MORE GREAT EARTHQUAKE is most impressive. It is very late here on the east coast (11:20 pm) so I am somewhat tired but I am definitely going to reread this, ponder it hard, and open up the scriptures again tomorrow. 

You are not the first person to tell me about the seals overlapping but up until now, I never took it serious enough because I figured the differences made it impossible to be the same

For example, Rev 6 mountains and islands are MOVED.....Rev 16, mountains and islands are bye bye.  Rev 11 earthquake wiped out only 7000 in Jerusalem. I didn’t think that was all that GREAT. 

I am going to have to go back and read all my notes and other passages as well as they three. Again M., very nice work.

eye opening, sister.  I wonder if LA is as impressed.  Probably not because we both had the rapture AFTER the 6th seal.  Lol. I’m sure Post Tribbers are popping open the bubbly stuff on this one. 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Spock

[iamlamad]

11 minutes ago, Spock said:

Yes la, I do believe the scene in Rev 7:9-17 represents the raptured church. No doubt in my mind.

Now, knowing this is one of those TIMEOUT INTERLUDE chapters, how sure am I that it follows chapter 6 in chronology? Do all the TIMEOUT INTERLUDE chapters follow chronology?

The best way to answer that is to test it out and see. 

Okay, does chapter 11, the two witnesses, follow chapter 9/10?  Well, Chapter 9 concludes the Trumpet judgments. So, do the two witnesses FOLLOW THIS?

uh-ohhhhhh, no it doesn’t. I believe the two witnesss will coincide with some of the trumpets (5 and 6 for sure).  So, if it doesnt follow the chronology here, maybe the timeout chapter 7 doesn’t necessarily follow the seals chapter 6. Hmmmmm

Good investigative work, spock.  

Thank you, thank you very much! (Said while blowing kisses to all....) 

First off, is chapter 7 written AFTER chapter 6? If you wish to rearrange, you must find scriptural PROOF that Revelation is not in order.  Paul tells us that the rapture will trigger the DAy of the Lord, and we see that at the 6th seal. Would it make sense then that John would see the church in heaven AFTER the rapture? CHECK! It makes sense! 

The trumpet judgments start in chapter 8. The 144,000 are sealed for their protection during the trumpets. Is the sealing then BEFORE the trumpets? CHECK! It makes perfect sense in the order John gives us. 

I believe the two witnesss will coincide with some of the trumpets (5 and 6 for sure)  OH OH! WHY do you believe this, Spock? The way it is written, the first 6 trumpets come before the two witnesses show up. Can you prove with scripture John got this backwards?

[Spock]

1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

First off, is chapter 7 written AFTER chapter 6? If you wish to rearrange, you must find scriptural PROOF that Revelation is not in order.  Paul tells us that the rapture will trigger the DAy of the Lord, and we see that at the 6th seal. Would it make sense then that John would see the church in heaven AFTER the rapture? CHECK! It makes sense! 

The trumpet judgments start in chapter 8. The 144,000 are sealed for their protection during the trumpets. Is the sealing then BEFORE the trumpets? CHECK! It makes perfect sense in the order John gives us. 

I believe the two witnesss will coincide with some of the trumpets (5 and 6 for sure)  OH OH! WHY do you believe this, Spock? The way it is written, the first 6 trumpets come before the two witnesses show up. Can you prove with scripture John got this backwards?

Because you never fully read my posts I don’t know why I should answer this. 

Lamad, i just showed you proof the book of Rev is not chapter to chapter chronological in this post. Please read it again. Yes, two witnesss come in on chapter 11, but the trumpets come in on chapter 8.  So, are you saying the two witnesses FOLLOW the trumpets because 11 comes after 8?

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

This is the scripture/s that, I believe nails it for us.

`See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven, whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also the heaven.` (Heb.12: 25 & 26)

And that reference is taken from Haggai.

`For thus says the Lord of hosts: “Once more I will shake heaven and earth, the sea and dry land; and I will shake all nations, and they shall come to the Desire of All Nations,.. (Hag.2: 6 & 7)

So we see that God will shake the heaven and earth ONCE more.

Joel 3: 12 - 16

`Let the nations be wakened and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat; (outside Jerusalem) for there I will sit to judge all the surrounding nations. Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Come, go down; for the winepress is full, the vats overflow - for their wickedness is great.

Multitude, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the Day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.

The sun and moon will grow dark, and the stars will diminish their brightness. The Lord also will roar from Zion, (heaven) and utter His voice from Jerusalem; the heavens and earth will shake, but the Lord will be a shelter for His people, and the strength of the children of Israel.`(Joel 3: 12 - 16)

Clearly that is the shaking God is talking about. There in Joel we see when that will happen. God has brought the world`s armies down from Armageddon, to around Jerusalem to the valley of Jehoshaphat. The heavens shake - the sun, moon and stars and the earth also.

 

Rev. 6: 12 - 17

`I looked when he opened the 6^th seal, and behold, there was a Great Earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the moon became like blood. And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.

Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.

And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” (Rev. 6: 12 - 17)

 

God is describing that He is shaking the heavens and earth here, and thus places this event at the end of the tribulation, just before the Lord returns in power and great glory with His angelic army.

"This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'In a little while I will once more shake the heavens and the earth, the sea and the dry land.
 

This verse is not saying what you want it to say. Notice that it does NOT say:

"This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'In a little while I will once more [AND ONLY ONCE MORE] shake the heavens and the earth, the sea and the dry land.

In truth, there is more than one earthquake. In one, mountains MOVE, but in another, more violent earthquake, the mountains disappear - as do the islands. 

AT the 6th seal, that earthquake will be caused by the dead in Christ rising.

AT the 7th vial, that much more violent earthquake will be caused by the Old Testament saints rising.

So as usual, I disagree. They are NOT the same earthquakes