From "Willing," to "Doing" (Phl 2:13)

[WordSword]

One must first be willing, before there can be doing, and depending upon one’s understanding and maturity there can be quite a time elapse between the two! Of all that God reveals in His Word concerning obedience, nothing is of greater significance than that of love to others, esp. the agape love of God in the believer—to other believers (Jhn 15:12; Gal 6:10). Christians can have an overwhelming desire for the love of God, and have yet to learn its walk of practicality, so as to traverse beyond mere desire (will).

God gives the desire to do “His good pleasure” to all who are reborn, thus keeping them in His hand (Jhn 19:29), and eventually “conforming” them to a mature “image of Christ” (1Th 5:24). There is today a prevalent conception among many professing Christians that one in whom God is “working” can refuse this work within and choose to return to one’s own ways.

But does not this understanding challenge the capability of God to continue to give (“work in you”) one the desire for “His good pleasure?” It is vastly more sensible to conclude this to manifest the absence of God, rather than to conceive that one who is reborn can “resist” (only possible by those who choose to remain unregenerate – Act 7:51) the graceful work of God within. I cannot understand this type of confusion, seeing that God is “working in you” to avoid the possibility of not desiring “His good pleasure.”

Granted, there are many Biblical passages that appear to present such an illusory concept, but I believe they are for the purpose of testing the intentions of believers towards one another when they have varying beliefs in their present understanding concerning a doctrine; and that it requires us to be more consistent in seeking the truth of any issue, esp. that of spiritual growth. Let’s use one of the popular passages of this subject for an example, and if anyone desires to present others, we will go over them also:

2Pe 2:20 “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.”

“Escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord”: I see this as a reference to the attempt to ease a guilty conscience through knowledge without application, i.e. saving face via a false profession of faith to appear outwardly truthful. There is a degree of peace that results even from one “saying” he has faith (Jam 2:18), yet the lifestyle eventually manifests otherwise (v 17), which are “works that deny Him” (Tit 1:16).

Those who only have knowledge of Christ and His truths, but not the saving experience of such, inevitably demonstrate the truth of their false profession—for “your sin will find you out” (Num 32:23). The latter state of one having knowledge of truth and not accepting it is worse than one ignorant of it. Hence the latter state being worse than the first (Mat 11:23, 24; 21:28-31; Luk 12:47; Jhn 9:41; 15:22). An unregenerate soul is in a poor way, and continuing in an unregenerate state after learning the truth to resolve it is in even a worse state.  

This parallels Hebrews 10:26, which is continuing to choose to live in sin, even after “receiving the knowledge of the truth.” Notice it is not “receiving the truth,” but rather only “the knowledge of the truth.”

I would appreciate it much if others would provide more Scriptures of this sort that gives the appearance of losing salvation, so we can address with all of them. The matter of this truth is of the utmost importance, not in relation to being saved, but concerning spiritual growth in our faith.

Thanks ahead of time!

God’s blessings to your Families, and God be blessed!!

[simplejeff]

On 3/6/2019 at 7:12 AM, WordSword said:

2Pe 2:20 “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.”

The blood of Messiah pays the penalty of

our sins, and the Father Abba Yahweh gives us a new

spirit to reject sin and walk in newness of

life. If someone reject this spirit from Yahweh and

go back to our old way of life, then they are

blaspheming and rejecting

eternal life. (Heb 6:4-6)

 

There is no "appearance" here.   Simple Truth.

[WordSword]

I think the point with this passage and many others like it is that it reads like one is saved and then is not. I realize that for these type of passages there's not much else to conclude according to what it seems to be saying, but once it is understood that rebirth is eternal, one must continue to seek God for the explanations. Thankfully, the Gospel message is plain enough to explain what salvation is and how it is received, but the growth truths are not as clear, requiring more and deeper seeking for explanations.

 

[simplejeff]

8 minutes ago, WordSword said:

but once it is understood that rebirth is eternal

With this as your premise (you apparently decided this is true as a premise, a starting point,  so all else you think of is with this in mind,  and all else you think then is subject to disastrous falling down for building on this premise) ....

This happen extremely frequently on this forum  ,  where some premise is 'given' as if it is truth,  when it is not built on truth to start with,  thus nothing is reliable from that or any source that thinks it is truth.

[simplejeff]

11 minutes ago, WordSword said:

but the growth truths are not as clear, requiring more and deeper seeking for explanations.

This, already,  is not clear and not correct, since it appears to be built on false assumptions/ premises/ starting points.  

That quickly,  right away,  is seen the fallacy of building on quicksand like that - thankfully now,  so fast,  instead of taking hours upon hours of posts/ threads/ weeks or months to reach this point to see that it is on a false starting point.

[WordSword]

1 hour ago, simplejeff said:

With this as your premise (you apparently decided this is true as a premise, a starting point,  so all else you think of is with this in mind,  and all else you think then is subject to disastrous falling down for building on this premise) ....

This happen extremely frequently on this forum  ,  where some premise is 'given' as if it is truth,  when it is not built on truth to start with,  thus nothing is reliable from that or any source that thinks it is truth.

I believe misunderstanding a growth truth cannot affect your rebirth (if that's what you mean by falling down).

[WordSword]

1 hour ago, simplejeff said:

This, already,  is not clear and not correct, since it appears to be built on false assumptions/ premises/ starting points.  

That quickly,  right away,  is seen the fallacy of building on quicksand like that - thankfully now,  so fast,  instead of taking hours upon hours of posts/ threads/ weeks or months to reach this point to see that it is on a false starting point.

It's my understanding that there are only two issues concerning salvation; receiving it by faith, and growing in the faith of it. Fortunately, receiving faith (receiving salvation) is always presented easily understood in the Gospel of Christ, because it only concerns the issue of faith (if genuine will manifest true works). But growing in the faith (there is no growing in salvation, you're either saved or not) is a lifelong study in God's Word, which is mostly contained within the Gospels and Epistles; and they require more study involvement, which I think exercises faith via being patient and persistent with God's way of being taught by His Spirit (1Co 2:13).

[frienduff thaylorde]

2 hours ago, simplejeff said:

This, already,  is not clear and not correct, since it appears to be built on false assumptions/ premises/ starting points.  

That quickly,  right away,  is seen the fallacy of building on quicksand like that - thankfully now,  so fast,  instead of taking hours upon hours of posts/ threads/ weeks or months to reach this point to see that it is on a false starting point.

This is a general statement that I say next .    This is the problem Jeff,   it is .   most folks got no idea that many invented their own foundation .

Folks got no idea that many build and base their truth , on a foundation that was never OF CHRIST .  it was of men .  This is why no matter if they can say truths , THEY don't know TRUTH .

Many doctrines have been built upon the fallacy of the quicksand you made mention of .

Instead of seeking truth ,  they seek how to make truth make sense and support their fallacy .  I have seen this ,  oh man I have seen this .

Examples ,  its why we have pretrib or mid trib or post trib .

Its why we have Osas,   its why we have prosperity gospel ,  you name it , they bend it and have built upon a lie and thus will never come to the truth through a fallacy . It cant be done .

And it wont be done .    I have begged , pleaded ,   pleaded and begged for folks who I KNOW are under mens fallacies .  I have begged , pleaded ,   moaned , had tears

But folks WONT listen .   ONLY CHRIST can set a man free ,  but if a man don't love Christ,   well he is doomed no matter how much he hollers praises to the LORD .

Its why we got remarriage city in churches ,  its why we even got gay marriage approved by some .  Its why many follow Rome , or emergent

and yet fallacy upon fallacy , here a lie and their a lie mixed with some truths ,  and folks just eat it up .

Jeff,   I lay in the prone pleading that folks would start over , OPEN BIBLES and pray , seek and ask .

[frienduff thaylorde]

3 hours ago, Cletus said:

you ask for scripture @ O.P. ???  yes and Amen:

Rom 11:19  Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20  Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21  For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22  Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23  And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

the gospel aint love and just hugs... hugs for all.  God is not playing games... but many are playing games with Gods word these days.  this aint no chutes and ladders... no monopoly... aint no milton bradley in the bible.  this is life or death. 

but verse 23 is also just as important.  If you have walked away from God... If you are holding on to idols.... If you are not living with Jesus Christ as the center of your life... mercy can be had.  repent and confess it to God in sincerity of heart... and He will wash you clean, and not even once will He even mention it to you again... your shame can be gone, drowning in a sea of forgetfulness.  

Holy is The Lord and His faithfulness is steadfast!!!  

Luk 12:32  Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Eze 18:23  Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Eze 18:24  But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.  

The beauty of this  , of being truly born again , IS that we love ALL TRUTH .  ALL things said and wrote and we change nothing for a false peace .

WE just have peace and see all these reminders as pure words of honey to the taste .    We see them as good for us to be reminded .

Man , Cletus ,  SAY IT AGAIN .     What pure words of beauty .  What words of sobernesss , and words of hope and reminders to follow Christ faithful to THE END .

For we are made partakers of CHRIST ,   IFFFFF we hold our confidence steadfast to the END .    I notice lots of ifs  in scripture .  And they don't scare me , THEY REMIND ME

and EDIFY ME ,  but then all the holy scrips do that .   That the man of God may be thoroughly furnished unto all good works .

Way too many folks building up truths from a fable .  Which yeah , makes it untrue .    cant try and make the word of GOD build up ones own preconceived idea

RATHER just feast on it and let it all come rightly divided together for the good of he or she who does so .

[frienduff thaylorde]

3 hours ago, Cletus said:

you ask for scripture @ O.P. ???  yes and Amen:

Rom 11:19  Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20  Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21  For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22  Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23  And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

the gospel aint love and just hugs... hugs for all.  God is not playing games... but many are playing games with Gods word these days.  this aint no chutes and ladders... no monopoly... aint no milton bradley in the bible.  this is life or death. 

but verse 23 is also just as important.  If you have walked away from God... If you are holding on to idols.... If you are not living with Jesus Christ as the center of your life... mercy can be had.  repent and confess it to God in sincerity of heart... and He will wash you clean, and not even once will He even mention it to you again... your shame can be gone, drowning in a sea of forgetfulness.  

Holy is The Lord and His faithfulness is steadfast!!!  

Luk 12:32  Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Eze 18:23  Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Eze 18:24  But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.  

Man,  I just had to say it again ,   CLETUS , SAY IT AGAIN .