What Happens When you Die?

[Hobie_]

4 hours ago, missmuffet said:

You are talking about soul sleep and that is not biblical. When a believer dies their body stays in the grave and their soul goes immediately to heaven. Their body will be resurrected at the rapture of the Church. When a nonbeliever dies their soul goes immediately to Hades and their soul will be resurrected at the end of the 1000 year millennium to be judged at the White Throne judgment and they will be thrown into the eternal fire of hell 2 Corinthians 5:6-8.When the Bible talks about sleep it is not a literal sleep but death. Some of the religions that believe in soul sleep are SDA, JW and Christadelphians. 

 

We must go by 'Sola Scriptura' and here are a few text from scripture to go over..

Psalm 13:3
Consider and hear me, O Lord my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;

Matthew 9:24
He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.

John 11:11
These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

Acts 13:36
For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

Then these...
1 Corinthians 15:13-23
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.....

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

[turtletwo]

30 minutes ago, Sonshine☀️ said:

Yes.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 King James Version (KJV)

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

@Sonshine☀️ Excellent scripture! Thanks.

[turtletwo]

 

The Sadducees Ask About the Resurrection

Mark 12:18-27

18And Sadducees came to him, who say that there is no resurrection. And they asked him a question, saying, 19“Teacher, Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife, but leaves no child, the man^e must take the widow and raise up offspring for his brother. 20There were seven brothers; the first took a wife, and when he died left no offspring. 21And the second took her, and died, leaving no offspring. And the third likewise. 22And the seven left no offspring. Last of all the woman also died. 23In the resurrection, when they rise again, whose wife will she be? For the seven had her as wife.”24Jesus said to them, “Is this not the reason you are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God? 25For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.26And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27He is not God of the dead, but of the living. You are quite wrong.”

 

 

 

[OpenMind]

13 hours ago, Zemke said:

 Jesus claimed the thief being crucified next to him would be with Him in paradise that day. 

Your explanation sounds like it's from adjusted Watch Tower teaching without the quotes and terms from Chaz Russell, "The man Jesus is dead, forever dead." and "A body without life force is non-existent."  

We are made in the image and likeness of God. God created man, He created woman from man and man goes into a woman and procreates a third. The unity God had with humanity was corrupted and death entered in. Through the disobedience of one man sin entered and death came but through the obedience and shed blood of another, Jesus the righteous, we have eternal life. 

Sometimes understanding is very simplistic and glorious but we need to remember that it's the sum of the word that is true. Paul speaks of being absent from the body to be present with the Lord in 2Cor. 5 and when he was taken up to the third heaven he really couldn't say he understood what was happening but what he saw was beyond description. What Paul experienced in not knowing how all that was taking place is a good example or piece of what it will be like, a conscience presents, sort of like our conscience when we sleep. But without the confusions and nightmares. I believe it's why sleep terminology is used.

So what you are saying is we don't exist when we die. Non-existent?  

Do you believe that less clear scripture should be viewed in the light of more clear scripture?

[OpenMind]

11 hours ago, missmuffet said:

You are talking about soul sleep and that is not biblical. When a believer dies their body stays in the grave and their soul goes immediately to heaven. Their body will be resurrected at the rapture of the Church. When a nonbeliever dies their soul goes immediately to Hades and their soul will be resurrected at the end of the 1000 year millennium to be judged at the White Throne judgment and they will be thrown into the eternal fire of hell 2 Corinthians 5:6-8.When the Bible talks about sleep it is not a literal sleep but death. Some of the religions that believe in soul sleep are SDA, JW and Christadelphians. 

 

You say that my position is not Biblical yet I presented exactly 40 Bible verses to support my position.  

I posted verses that unequivocally state that we return to the dust of the earth when we die, that the dead know nothing, that man has no advantage over beasts in death, that people are in their graves, that David has not ascended to heaven and that in fact no man has ascended to heaven.  And you state the exact opposite. 

You say that a believer's "soul" goes immediately to heaven upon death, yet you provide no scriptural evidence.  You say a non believer's "soul" goes immediately to Hades, which is actually correct but ironic because you don't seem to understand what "Hades" actually is, nor that the righteous go there also.  You have also ignored the Biblical definition of soul and used your own.  Why should I believe you?

[OpenMind]

14 hours ago, OneLight said:

OpenMind, here is a simple definition of both spirit and soul:

spirit:

1. the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son

   1. sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the "Holy" Spirit)

   2. sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of "Truth")

   3. never referred to as a depersonalised force

2. the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated

   1. the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides

   2. the soul

You start out by offering a definition of both spirit and soul, but then go on to define a spirit as "the soul".  Do you believe they are one and the same?

[OpenMind]

13 hours ago, Willa said:

So you call the Holy Spirit the holy life?  When we are born again of the Holy Spirit we have much more than a holy life.  He is God. Likewise spirit is more than life. 

1Pe 1:8  Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory,  1Pe 1:9  obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Php 1:21  For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.  Php 1:22  If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell.Php 1:23  I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.

It can hardly be gain to die and lay asleep in a putrid rotting body.  He is talking about his soul, that which is "me", will depart his body and be with Christ when he dies.  You can look forward to sleep in a stinking decaying body if you wish, but I am not staying there!  Old Testament Scriptures do not apply to born again Christians.  They are friends of the Bridegoom as was John the Baptist.  In the Old Testament they went to Abraham's bosom whose hope was in the coming Messiah.

2Co 5:8  Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.    AMEN!!!

I don't think anybody would disagree that it would be better to be with Christ, but does Paul actually say that as soon as you die you are with Christ?  No, he does not.  You inferred it.

What the Bible does actually say is that you are dust and to dust you will return.

Genesis 3:19

By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”

As you know, if you read the OP, there are many more verses that say the same thing, and there's not a single verse that unequivocally states you will be in heaven as soon as you die.  Why do you claim that which the Bible does not unequivocally say (but can be inferred), and yet you flat out deny that which it does unequivocally state?

You said "He is talking about his soul, that which is 'me'", and when you say "soul" I assume you mean spirit, but the Bible says you are dust, not spirit.

Edited April 29, 2019 by OpenMind

[OpenMind]

13 hours ago, Zemke said:

So what you are saying is we don't exist when we die. Non-existent?  

What I'm saying (and what the Bible is saying) is that when we die, we actually die.  

[OpenMind]

7 hours ago, Sonshine☀️ said:

Yes.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 King James Version (KJV)

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The word "spirit" in that verse refers to life.  When you die, your life returns to God who gave it.  He gave it in Genesis 2:7.  

You said, "Yes", you believe that as soon as you die, you are resurrected, but then what of these verses?

John 5:28-29

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”

John is talking about "the hour" in which all that are in the graves shall be resurrected.  How can this be if nobody waits for that hour, as you say?

John also says that resurrection happens on "the last day".

John 6:39

And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

Actually it was Jesus who spoke those words, but John recorded it.  Do you deny what Jesus said?  Or do you need to "clarify" what he said by adding a few words in there?

And Paul says here in 1 Corinthians 15 that we will be resurrected when Jesus returns.

For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Do you deny that as well?

The angel Gabriel told Daniel that there will come a time when all will be awakened.

Daniel 12:1

But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

He's clearly saying that all will be resurrected at the same time, which means they can not be resurrected as soon as they die because people die at different times.  Did Gabriel not understand the resurrection process?

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by OpenMind

[OpenMind]

13 hours ago, Willa said:

So you call the Holy Spirit the holy life?  

One could say that, yes.  God is life, which is why when he breathed into Adam, Adam became alive.  And that is also why when we lose our life, that life goes back to God who gave it.  All life comes from God and returns to God.  There is no other source of life.

Edited April 29, 2019 by OpenMind