MARK 16:16 BAPTIZED AND SAVED

[Firm Foundation]

Just now, Daniel Marsh said:

Mark 16:17-18 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
17 And the people who believe will be able to do these things as proof: They will use my name to force demons out of people. They will speak in languages they never learned. 18 If they pick up snakes or drink any poison, they will not be hurt. They will lay their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

 

Is the above happening today?

Yes.  In some places.

[douge]

19 hours ago, Daniel Marsh said:

You made a negative claim about them.   As such you need to know what you are talking about.

"Mark 16:9-20 doesn't appear in many of the oldest ancient manuscripts.  "The last twelve verses of Mark (16:9-20) are lacking in the two earliest parchment codices, B and Aleph, in the Old Latin manuscript k,, the Sinaitic Syriac, many manuscripts of the Old Armenian version, the Adysh and Opiza manuscripts of the Old Georgian version, and a number of manuscripts of the Ethiopic version.  Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and Ammonius show no knowledge of the existence of these verses; other Church Fathers state that the section is absent from Greek copies of Mark known to them (e.g. Jerome, Epist. cxx. 3, ad hedibiam,) . . . The original form of the Eusebian sections makes no provision for numbering sections after 16:8."  https://carm.org/baptism-and-mark-1616

 

 

Hello

I have reviewed a lot of the textual arguments and I am impressed by your knowledge.......but I have been convinced that the KJV is reliable...and you have been convinced by your studies...so we can leave it at that.

[douge]

On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 9:22 AM, Behold said:

1 Corinthians 1:17

Colossians 2:12

So, if you have read those, then notice this one, douge..

Acts 10:47. as this is a key..

Notice that the reason they are to be water immersed, is because they have BELIEVED.

That is the only part that matters., and in ever case where you read about water baptism in the NT, you will find they BELIEVE FIRST......that is to say, the are SAVED <> Born again FIRST, and then...........the immersion follows their salvation.

Hello

I asked for you to Please show me what scripture says "Being water baptized is a public confession of your Salvation, and its symbolic of the old man dying, and the new man rising..."in Christ"."

You gave me 1 Corinthians 1:17 which says "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect."......this says Paul was not sent to baptize....nothing about a public confession

You gave me Colossians 2:12 which says "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."......... It is speaking of being risen with Christ through faith in the operation of God in resurrecting Christ......nothing about a public confession

You cited Acts 10:47.....says nothing about public confession

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by douge

[Daniel Marsh]

4 hours ago, douge said:

Hello

I have reviewed a lot of the textual arguments and I am impressed by your knowledge.......but I have been convinced that the KJV is reliable...and you have been convinced by your studies...so we can leave it at that.

Agree Douge    My whole point is not to define doctrine on one text that everyone does not agree on as being genuine. 

[Daniel Marsh]

4 hours ago, douge said:

Hello

I asked for you to Please show me what scripture says "Being water baptized is a public confession of your Salvation, and its symbolic of the old man dying, and the new man rising..."in Christ"."

You gave me 1 Corinthians 1:17 which says "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect."......this says Paul was not sent to baptize....nothing about a public confession

You gave me Colossians 2:12 which says "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."......... It is speaking of being risen with Christ through faith in the operation of God in resurrecting Christ......nothing about a public confession

You cited Acts 10:47.....says nothing about public confession

 

1 Corinthians 1 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
1 Greetings from Paul. I was chosen to be an apostle of Christ Jesus. God chose me because that is what he wanted. Greetings also from Sosthenes, our brother in Christ.

2 To God’s church in Corinth, you who have been made holy because you belong to Christ Jesus. You were chosen to be God’s holy people together with all people everywhere who trust in the Lord[a] Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours.

3 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul Gives Thanks to God
4 I always thank my God for you because of the grace that he has given you through Christ Jesus. 5 In him you have been blessed in every way. You have been blessed in all your speaking and all your knowledge. 6 This proves that what we told you about Christ is true. 7 Now you have every gift from God while you wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to come again. 8 He will keep you strong until the end so that on the day when our Lord Jesus Christ comes, you will be free from all blame. 9 God is faithful. He is the one who has chosen you to share life with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Stop Arguing With Each Other
10 Brothers and sisters, by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, I beg all of you to agree with each other. You should not be divided into different groups. Be completely joined together again with the same kind of thinking and the same purpose.

11 My brothers and sisters, some members of Chloe’s family told me that there are arguments among you. 12 This is what I mean: One of you says, “I follow Paul,” and someone else says, “I follow Apollos.” Another says, “I follow Peter,”and someone else says, “I follow Christ.” 13 Christ cannot be divided into different groups. It wasn’t Paul who died on the cross for you, was it? Were you baptized in Paul’s name? 14 I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius. 15 I am thankful because now no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (I also baptized the family of Stephanas, but I don’t remember that I myself baptized any others.) 17 Christ did not give me the work of baptizing people. He gave me the work of telling the Good News. But he sent me to tell the Good News without using clever speech, which would take away the power that is in the cross[c] of Christ.

God’s Power and Wisdom in Christ Jesus
18 The teaching about the cross seems foolish to those who are lost. But to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 As the Scriptures say,

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise.
    I will confuse the understanding of the intelligent.”

20 So what does this say about the philosopher, the law expert, or anyone in this world who is skilled in making clever arguments? God has made the wisdom of the world look foolish. 21 This is what God in his wisdom decided: Since the world did not find him through its own wisdom, he used the message that sounds foolish to save those who believe it.

22 The Jews ask for miraculous signs, and the Greeks want wisdom. 23 But this is the message we tell everyone: Christ was killed on a cross. This message is a problem for Jews, and to other people it is nonsense. 24 But Christ is God’s power and wisdom to the people God has chosen, both Jews and Greeks. 25 Even the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom. Even the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

26 Brothers and sisters, God chose you to be his. Think about that! Not many of you were wise in the way the world judges wisdom. Not many of you had great influence, and not many of you came from important families. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise. He chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 And God chose what the world thinks is not important—what the world hates and thinks is nothing. He chose these to destroy what the world thinks is important. 29 God did this so that no one can stand before him and boast about anything. 30 It is God who has made you part of Christ Jesus. And Christ has become for us wisdom from God. He is the reason we are right with God and pure enough to be in his presence. Christ is the one who set us free from sin. 31 So, as the Scriptures say, “Whoever boasts should boast only about the Lord.”

[Daniel Marsh]

Colossians 2 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
2 I want you to know that I am trying very hard to help you. And I am trying to help those in Laodicea and others who have never seen me. 2 I want them to be strengthened and joined together with love and to have the full confidence that comes from understanding. I want them to know completely the secret truth that God has made known. That truth is Christ himself. 3 In him all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are kept safe.

4 I tell you this so that no one can fool you by telling you ideas that seem good, but are false. 5 Even though I am far away, my thoughts are always with you. I am happy to see your good lives and your strong faith in Christ.

Continue to Follow Christ Jesus
6 You accepted Christ Jesus as Lord, so continue to live following him. 7 You must depend on Christ only, drawing life and strength from him. Just as you were taught the truth, continue to grow stronger in your understanding of it. And never stop giving thanks to God.

8 Be sure you are not led away by the teaching of those who have nothing worth saying and only plan to deceive you. That teaching is not from Christ. It is only human tradition and comes from the powers that influence[a] this world. 9 I say this because all of God lives in Christ fully, even in his life on earth. 10 And because you belong to Christ you are complete, having everything you need. Christ is ruler over every other power and authority.

11 In Christ you had a different kind of circumcision, one that was not done by human hands. That is, you were made free from the power of your sinful self. That is the kind of circumcision Christ does. 12 When you were baptized, you were buried with Christ, and you were raised up with him because of your faith in God’s power. God’s power was shown when he raised Christ from death.

13 You were spiritually dead because of your sins and because you were not free from the power of your sinful self. But God gave you new life together with Christ. He forgave all our sins. 14 Because we broke God’s laws, we owed a debt—a debt that listed all the rules we failed to follow. But God forgave us of that debt. He took it away and nailed it to the cross. 15 He defeated the rulers and powers of the spiritual world. With the cross he won the victory over them and led them away, as defeated and powerless prisoners for the whole world to see.

Don’t Follow Rules That People Make
16 So don’t let anyone make rules for you about eating and drinking or about Jewish customs (festivals, New Moon celebrations, or Sabbath days). 17 In the past these things were like a shadow that showed what was coming. But the new things that were coming are found in Christ. 18 Some people enjoy acting as if they are humble and love to worship angels. They always talk about the visions they have seen. Don’t listen to them when they say you are wrong because you don’t do these things. It is so foolish for them to feel such pride, because it is all based on their own human ideas. 19 They don’t keep themselves under the control of the head. Christ is the head, and the whole body depends on him. Because of Christ all the parts of the body care for each other and help each other. So the body is made stronger and held together as God causes it to grow.

20 You died with Christ and were made free from the powers that influence this world. So why do you act as if you still belong to the world? I mean, why do you follow rules like these: 21 “Don’t eat this,” “Don’t taste that,” “Don’t touch that”? 22 These rules are talking about earthly things that are gone after they are used. They are only human commands and teachings. 23 These rules may seem to be wise as part of a made-up religion in which people pretend to be humble and punish their bodies. But they don’t help people stop doing the evil that the sinful self wants to do.

[Daniel Marsh]

Acts 10 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
Peter and Cornelius
10 In the city of Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a Roman army officer in what was called the Italian Unit. 2 He was a religious man. He and all the others who lived in his house were worshipers of the true God. He gave much of his money to help the poor people and always prayed to God. 3 One afternoon about three o’clock, Cornelius had a vision. He clearly saw an angel from God coming to him and saying, “Cornelius!”

4 Staring at the angel and feeling afraid, Cornelius said, “What do you want, sir?”

The angel said to him, “God has heard your prayers and has seen your gifts to the poor. He remembers you and all you have done. 5 Send some men now to the city of Joppa to get a man named Simon, who is also called Peter. 6 He is staying with someone also named Simon, a leatherworker who has a house beside the sea.” 7 The angel who spoke to Cornelius left. Then Cornelius called two of his servants and a soldier. The soldier was a religious man, one of his close helpers. 8 Cornelius explained everything to these three men and sent them to Joppa.

9 The next day they were coming near Joppa about noon, when Peter was going up to the roof to pray. 10 He was hungry and wanted to eat. But while they were preparing the food for Peter to eat, he had a vision. 11 He saw something coming down through the open sky. It looked like a big sheet being lowered to the ground by its four corners. 12 In it were all kinds of animals, reptiles, and birds. 13 Then a voice said to him, “Get up, Peter; kill anything here and eat it.”

14 But Peter said, “I can’t do that, Lord! I have never eaten anything that is not pure or fit to be used for food.”

15 But the voice said to him again, “God has made these things pure. Don’t say they are unfit to eat.” 16 This happened three times. Then the whole thing was taken back up into heaven. 17 Peter wondered what this vision meant.

The men Cornelius sent had found Simon’s house. They were standing at the door. 18 They asked, “Is Simon Peter staying here?”

19 While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Listen, three men are looking for you. 20 Get up and go downstairs. Go with these men without wondering if it’s all right, because I sent them.” 21 So Peter went downstairs and said to them, “I think I’m the man you are looking for. Why did you come here?”

22 The men said, “A holy angel told Cornelius to invite you to his house. He is an army officer. He is a good man, one who worships God, and all the Jewish people respect him. The angel told him to invite you to his house so that he can listen to what you have to say.” 23 Peter asked the men to come in and stay for the night.

The next day Peter got ready and went away with the three men. Some of the believers from Joppa went with him. 24 The next day they came to the city of Caesarea. Cornelius was waiting for them and had already gathered his relatives and close friends at his house.

25 When Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him. He fell down at Peter’s feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter told him to get up. Peter said, “Stand up! I am only a man like you.” 27 Peter continued talking with Cornelius. Then Peter went inside and saw a large group of people gathered there.

28 Peter said to the people, “You understand that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit anyone who is not a Jew. But God has shown me that I should not consider anyone unfit or say they are not pure. 29 That’s why I didn’t argue when your men asked me to come here. Now, please tell me why you sent for me.”

30 Cornelius said, “Four days ago, I was praying in my house. It was at this same time—three o’clock in the afternoon. Suddenly there was someone standing before me wearing bright, shiny clothes. 31 He said, ‘Cornelius, God has heard your prayer and has seen your gifts to the poor. He remembers you and all you have done. 32 So send some men to the city of Joppa and tell Simon Peter to come. He is staying with another man named Simon, a leatherworker who has a house beside the sea.’ 33 So I sent for you immediately. It was very good of you to come here. Now we are all here before God to hear everything the Lord has commanded you to tell us.”

Peter Speaks in the House of Cornelius
34 Peter began to speak: “I really understand now that God does not consider some people to be better than others. 35 He accepts anyone who worships him and does what is right. It is not important what nation they come from. 36 God has spoken to the people of Israel. He sent them the Good News that peace has come through Jesus Christ, the Lord of all people.

37 “You know what has happened all over Judea. It began in Galilee after John told the people they needed to be baptized. 38 You know about Jesus from Nazareth. God made him the Messiah by giving him the Holy Spirit and power. Jesus went everywhere doing good for people. He healed those who were ruled by the devil, showing that God was with him.

39 “We saw all that Jesus did in Judea and in Jerusalem. But he was killed. They put him on a cross made of wood. 40 But on the third day after his death, God raised him to life and let him be seen openly. 41 He was not seen by everyone, but only by us, the ones God had already chosen to be witnesses. We ate and drank with him after he was raised from death.

42 “Jesus told us to go and speak to the people. He told us to tell them that he is the one God chose to be the Judge of all who are living and all who have died. 43 Everyone who believes in Jesus will have their sins forgiven through his name. All the prophets agree that this is true.”

God Shows That He Accepts All People
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came down on all those who were listening to his speech. 45 The Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed that the Holy Spirit had been poured out as a gift also to people who were not Jews. 46 They heard them speaking different languages and praising God. Then Peter said, 47 “How can anyone object to these people being baptized in water? They have received the Holy Spirit the same as we did!” 48 So Peter told them to baptize Cornelius and his relatives and friends in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

[Daniel Marsh]

Acts 10 does raise the issue how an unsaved person can be filled with the Holy Spirit to speak in unknown languages to themselves. 

I often post chapters when I do not remember the context or for edification. 

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Romans 10 Good News Translation (GNT)
10 My friends, how I wish with all my heart that my own people might be saved! How I pray to God for them! 2 I can assure you that they are deeply devoted to God; but their devotion is not based on true knowledge. 3 They have not known the way in which God puts people right with himself, and instead, they have tried to set up their own way; and so they did not submit themselves to God's way of putting people right. 4 For Christ has brought the Law to an end, so that everyone who believes is put right with God.

Salvation Is for All
5 Moses wrote this about being put right with God by obeying the Law: “Whoever obeys the commands of the Law will live.” 6 But what the scripture says about being put right with God through faith is this: “You are not to ask yourself, Who will go up into heaven?” (that is, to bring Christ down). 7 “Nor are you to ask, Who will go down into the world below?” (that is, to bring Christ up from death). 8 What it says is this: “God's message is near you, on your lips and in your heart”—that is, the message of faith that we preach. 9 If you confess that Jesus is Lord and believe that God raised him from death, you will be saved. 10 For it is by our faith that we are put right with God; it is by our confession that we are saved. 11 The scripture says, “Whoever believes in him will not be disappointed.” 12 This includes everyone, because there is no difference between Jews and Gentiles; God is the same Lord of all and richly blesses all who call to him. 13 As the scripture says, “Everyone who calls out to the Lord for help will be saved.”

14 But how can they call to him for help if they have not believed? And how can they believe if they have not heard the message? And how can they hear if the message is not proclaimed? 15 And how can the message be proclaimed if the messengers are not sent out? As the scripture says, “How wonderful is the coming of messengers who bring good news!” 16 But not all have accepted the Good News. Isaiah himself said, “Lord, who believed our message?” 17 So then, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message comes through preaching Christ.

18 But I ask: Is it true that they did not hear the message? Of course they did—for as the scripture says:

“The sound of their voice went out to all the world;
    their words reached the ends of the earth.”
19 Again I ask: Did the people of Israel not understand? Moses himself is the first one to answer:
“I will use a so-called nation
    to make my people jealous;
and by means of a nation of fools
    I will make my people angry.”
20 And Isaiah is even bolder when he says,
“I was found by those who were not looking for me;
    I appeared to those who were not asking for me.”

21 But concerning Israel he says, “All day long I held out my hands to welcome a disobedient and rebellious people.”

 

Romans 10:10 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
10 For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved.

Romans 10:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

 

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Didache which was a church manual from around 110 AD

"

VII

 

1. Concerning baptism, baptise thus: Having first rehearsed all these things, "baptise, in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost," in running water;  2. But if thou hast no running water, baptise in other water, and if thou canst not in cold, then in warm.  3. But if thou hast neither, pour water three times on the head "in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost."  4. And before the baptism let the baptiser and him who is to be baptised fast, and any others who are able. And thou shalt bid him who is to be baptised to fast one or two days before."http://www.thedidache.com/