Firm Foundation Posted July 16, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Billiards Ball said: For a verse study, start here: http://users.isp.com/kjfiore/_private/Theology/Soteriology/eternalSalvationInJohn.htm Thanks! This is the writings of a false teacher. My NT has more books than John. Then there is the matter of what true faith is, and we see the answer in Hebrews and James. True faith involves repentance and brings about works. The devils believe and tremble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted July 16, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2019 11 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said: Willfull ignorance of what Hebrews 10 really describes —- one verse!—— can warp the entire Truth of the Bible......such an easy error to overcome unless one is “ stiffed neck” in the extreme..... This has been reported. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted July 16, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said: Faith without works is dead. But we're not talking about dead faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mclees Posted July 16, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,915 Content Per Day: 0.80 Reputation: 910 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, Billiards Ball said: What you said is unbiblical, so I care for you, but cannot in good conscience support your doctrine. 1) All people who teach loss of security use unclear verses and statements, "we have to show", "we have to prove", "can't practice wickedness" 2) All people " " say salvation is about US, our behavior, and not really about JESUS--Jesus gives us the opportunity to be saved, not salvation 3) Loss of salvation always has to do with my behavior, not Jesus's power 6 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Matt 24 45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, and shall cut him asunder and appoint him his portion with the hypocrits, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Read Matt 25 and all the parables that warn not to fail of being astute about their faith. the five wise and the five foolish to whom the door was shut as Jesus said I don't know you. If it were not possible to lose ones salvation then all these parables Jesus were written for nothing making the Lord a lier God forbid. Jesus also said that not all who say Lord Lord , shall enter into the kingdom. Edited July 16, 2019 by Mike Mclees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pg4Him Posted July 16, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 347 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 370 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/20/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2019 How do we know the difference between dead faith and quickened faith? All were baptized with Moses in the same Red Sea, all drank from the same Rock, yet most perished on the way. How can you drink from the Rock that is Christ and then perish on the way? How can you shipwreck a faith you never had? How can you go astray if you were lost the whole time anyway? Paul didn’t say those who perished in the desert weren’t “really” delivered from Egypt. He didn’t say they weren’t “really” baptized with Moses. They were under the cloud, and they perished on the way, and they are an ensample for our admonition. Please show me a Bible verse, anywhere, that says people who claim to know Christ are charlatans who are merely faking it. Those who ran without winning were not “really” running? Paul said he disciplined his own body lest he fell short — because maybe he wasn’t really saved all along? Show us this in Scripture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted July 16, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2019 22 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said: 6 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Matt 24 45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, and shall cut him asunder and appoint him his portion with the hypocrits, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Read Matt 25 and all the parables that warn not to fail of being astute about their faith. the five wise and the five foolish to whom the door was shut as Jesus said I don't know you. If it were not possible to lose ones salvation then all these parables Jesus were written for nothing making the Lord a lier God forbid. Jesus also said that not all who say Lord Lord , shall enter into the kingdom. I agree--Jesus tells us truth only and ever. Consider! Matthew 25 is about unsaved people, not people who lose their salvation--one issue that leads to eternal insecurity is mistaking clear passages about Jews for the church, a terrible, terrible problem that further leads to Replacement Theology--the same RT that is believed fervently by Witnesses, Mormons, Rome... SERVANTS are not just Christians, since Jesus said in John, "no longer just servants . . . but FRIENDS". Matthew 25 is about Jewish people not waiting for the correct Jewish Messiah. Most born agains believe security, those who don't have the same "do it or lose it" doctrine as the cults above. Repent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted July 16, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2019 37 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said: This is the writings of a false teacher. My NT has more books than John. Then there is the matter of what true faith is, and we see the answer in Hebrews and James. True faith involves repentance and brings about works. The devils believe and tremble. A false teacher sees the entire book of John teaches one doctrine only about salvation, but does not recognize that Hebrews and James DISAGREE with John's gospel? Note carefully, I NEVER said "true faith doesn't involve repentance" and "doesn't bring about works", but repentance leads to a one-time act, salvation, and ongoing repentance and works help with witnessing and sanctification. I think the issues are 1) confusing salvation with sanctification 2) calling someone who believes John is part of the Bible "a false teacher". Repent! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pg4Him Posted July 16, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 347 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 370 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/20/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Billiards Ball said: I agree--Jesus tells us truth only and ever. Consider! Matthew 25 is about unsaved people, not people who lose their salvation--one issue that leads to eternal insecurity is mistaking clear passages about Jews for the church, a terrible, terrible problem that further leads to Replacement Theology--the same RT that is believed fervently by Witnesses, Mormons, Rome... SERVANTS are not just Christians, since Jesus said in John, "no longer just servants . . . but FRIENDS". Matthew 25 is about Jewish people not waiting for the correct Jewish Messiah. Most born agains believe security, those who don't have the same "do it or lose it" doctrine as the cults above. Repent! So I must accept OSAS or else repent? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted July 16, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2019 49 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said: That is a perfect example of misusing scripture. I will look at it. I'm not "misusing scripture" or even "interpreting it". I'm quoting it: The Bible says over 150 times TRUST JESUS for salvation. It NEVER says, not once, that any of the below are salvation, for salvation, re-save us, extend or enhance salvation, etc.: * repent * works * behavior * best efforts * tithing * make Jesus Lord * make Jesus Savior * etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted July 16, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 minute ago, pg4Him said: So I must accept OSAS or else repent? I think every Christian must repent of any kind of Replacement Theology and of assuming every verse is only for Christians. The NT has three audiences it addresses: 1) Jews 2) Gentiles 3) Jewish and Gentile born again Christians I emphasize repentance of bad interpretation but also, yes, repentance about OSAS, because if you think YOU are saving YOU, the Bible warns you to check your salvation! I don't save me, Jesus saves me! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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