Where Jesus and John Essenes?

[Guest Zayit]

I'm just curious why this would matter........?

[Guest Zayit]

I have some more thoughts to add:

From Luke 1

5 In the days of Herod, King of Y'hudah, there was a cohen named Z'kharyah who belonged to the Aviyah division. His wife was a descendant of Aharon, and her name was Elisheva. 6 Both of them were righteous before God, observing all the mitzvot and ordinances of ADONAI blamelessly.

Cohen - a descendant of aaron - High Priest - he was of the true priestly line.

7 But they had no children, because Elisheva was barren; and they were both well along in years.

They were elderly

18 Z'kharyah said to the angel, "How can I be sure of this? For I am an old man; my wife too is well on in years."

36 "You have a relative, Elisheva, who is an old woman; and everyone says she is barren. But she has conceived a son and is six months pregnant! 37 For with God, nothing is impossible."

Now were they old enough to raise him? Or was he taken to be raised in the wilderness with the Essences at Qumran?

80 The child grew and became strong in spirit, and he lived in the wilderness until the time came for him to appear in public to Isra'el.

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From paragraph 2 from Joshephus WoJ

They neglect wedlock, but choose out other persons children, while they are pliable, and fit for learning, and esteem them to be of their kindred, and form them according to their own manners.

If John's parents didn't die of old age , perhaps something more sinister?

MaTT 2327 "Woe to you hypocritical Torah-teachers and P'rushim! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look fine on the outside but inside are full of dead people's bones and all kinds of rottenness. 28 Likewise, you appear to people from the outside to be good and honest, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and far from Torah. 29 "Woe to you hypocritical Torah-teachers and P'rushim! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the tzaddikim, 30 and you say, `Had we lived when our fathers did, we would never have taken part in killing the prophets.' 31 In this you testify against yourselves that you are worthy descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead then, finish what your fathers started! 33 "You snakes! Sons of snakes! How can you escape being condemned to Gei Hinnom?

34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and Torah-teachers -- some of them you will kill, indeed, you will have them executed on stakes as criminals; some you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so, on you will fall the guilt for all the innocent blood that has ever been shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Hevel to the blood of Z'kharyah Ben-Berekhyah, whom you murdered between the Temple and the altar.

[Guest shiloh357]

3. 'why the comparison'? Because I do see similarities. you amoung others have not even attempted to read them and give just reason why they aren't evidential. I am not saying he drew from them, but rather was their source. Not everything mind you as some of their 'fences' were so impractical as to cause harm ( shabbat bathroom breaks' )

[Guest shiloh357]

Now were they old enough to raise him? Or was he taken to be raised in the wilderness with the Essences at Qumran?

To imply that he was raised by the Essenes is conjecture, and besides, if God was able to cause him to be born, He is also able to give his parents long enough life to raise him.

If John's parents didn't die of old age , perhaps something more sinister?

MaTT 2327 "Woe to you hypocritical Torah-teachers and P'rushim! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look fine on the outside but inside are full of dead people's bones and all kinds of rottenness. 28 Likewise, you appear to people from the outside to be good and honest, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and far from Torah. 29 "Woe to you hypocritical Torah-teachers and P'rushim! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the tzaddikim, 30 and you say, `Had we lived when our fathers did, we would never have taken part in killing the prophets.' 31 In this you testify against yourselves that you are worthy descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead then, finish what your fathers started! 33 "You snakes! Sons of snakes! How can you escape being condemned to Gei Hinnom?

34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and Torah-teachers -- some of them you will kill, indeed, you will have them executed on stakes as criminals; some you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so, on you will fall the guilt for all the innocent blood that has ever been shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Hevel to the blood of Z'kharyah Ben-Berekhyah, whom you murdered between the Temple and the altar.

This is not talking about John's parents. You are trying to force a connection that does not exist.

[Guest Zayit]

Zachariah was not John's Dad?

[Gerioke]

What happened to Joseph, the carpenter? When did he leave the scene?

[Guest shiloh357]

Zachariah was not John's Dad?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, I am saying that the Zechariah mentioned in Matt.23:35 is not John the Baptist's father. It is a different Zechariah.

[Guest Zayit]

How do we know that?

[Guest shiloh357]

How do we know that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because had the father of John the Baptist been murdered, it would have been a significant event. It would have been noteworthy.

It is more likely that that Jesus is referring to Zechariah in 2 Chronicles.

And the Spirit of God came upon Zechariah the son of Jehoiada the priest, which stood above the people, and said unto them, Thus saith God, Why transgress ye the commandments of the LORD, that ye cannot prosper? because ye have forsaken the LORD, he hath also forsaken you. And they conspired against him, and stoned him with stones at the commandment of the king in the court of the house of the LORD. Thus Joash the king remembered not the kindness which Jehoiada his father had done to him, but slew his son. And when he died, he said, The LORD look upon it, and require it.

(2 Chronicles 24:20-22)

It is not uncommon for the ancient Jewish men to have more than one name. Israel is also known as Jacob, and Jeshurun. Matthew was also known as Levi. It would not be farfetched is Jehoiada was also known in Jewish tradition as Barakhyah.

It is clear from the context, that Jesus is speaking of events that occurred in antiquity.

[Guest Zayit]

It seems by this article http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/packa...pel/lukesgospel that back in the 4th century that Johns father was murdered.

The letters are inscribed vertically on the monument and run together. They are of a different height and are actually crooked. The inscription says the monument is the tomb of "Simeon who was a very just man and a very devoted old (person) and waiting for the consolation of the people." Simeon is the Greek version of Simon. The words are identical to Luke 2:25 as they appeared in the 4th-century Bible, also called the Codex Sinaiticus, notes AP. The Zachariah inscription reads: "This is the tomb of Zachariah, martyr, very pious priest, father of John."