Two separate wars?? Your thoughts please.

[Justin Adams]

1 minute ago, Alive said:

Justin---that is quite a construct he has accomplished. I read several of his other articles as well.

I have problems with it. I could be wrong, but he seems to be a purveyor of 'fear'.

As far as his picture of the 1000 years? He has made what I see as assumptions in key areas.

There are so many ideas about this. Some would suggest a cyclical reading of Revelation. Not linear. That appears to fit better.

[Alive]

In my view, and I see no reason to change it---the Millennial is a true natural reign on the earth.

I prefer the word translated 'new' in Peter to be 'renewed' or remodeled, so to speak.

I am convinced for a great many reasons that natural living humans will continue to live and reproduce.

This guy has them all destroyed---period. I can't accept that.

[breathoflife]

Hi everyone. We fail to recognize there are two separate wars. The first will be at the end of Daniel's Last seven year period. It will end with the Lord’s return known as the Day of the Lord.anti-Christ and the false prophet are defeated and thrown into the Lake of Fire. That brings Satan down shackled in unbreakable chain to be held in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years. After the 1,000 year reign Satan is released and he deceives the Gentile nations Gog and Magog, the nations, who will come against the Jerusalem who has served the Lord. In His temple for 1,000 years and this brings judgment on the Gentiles.Satan is defeated thrown into Lake of Fire where anti-Christ and false prophet have been for the entire 1,000 years. The bodies of the Gentile armies become the feast for the birds of the air. In this manner we have judgment 1st to the Jew and then for the Gentile and salvation also goes first to the Jew and then to the Gentile

[Justin Adams]

[Sister]

5 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Hi Justin. I believe that all the verses in Revelation dealing with the phrase "Thousand Years" is allegorical (as much of Revelation is). There is no physical Millennial reign of Christ.

[The first coming]:                   After Christ's resurrection He was "taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight."(Acts 1:9). At the time all who were witnessing this event were told ( by the two men in white apparel): "... ye  men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus which is taken up from you into heaven shall so come in like manner as he have seen him go into heaven" (v.11)

[The second coming]:               at a time unknown to us Jesus will come the second time in "like manner". In Revelation 1:7 we read  " Behold ,He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all the kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. even so,amen"

When Jesus comes the second time it will be the last day of this sin cursed earth. it will be the "great day of his wrath"(Rev 6:17) upon all who are not saved from their sins. But it will also be a time of great rejoicing, as God's people receive their new resurrected bodies to live in the " new heavens and a new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness." 2Peter 3:13

When the last person ordained by God receives the Holy Ghost, His salvation plan is complete. This world ends ,and the new one begins. Amen.. that's it

Hi Walter Goraj jr

In the past, and at present, most Christians believed this because they only read the new testament.  We need the prophesies of the old testament also to tie the both together and get a clearer picture.  Most of these prophesies of the OT refer to the end times and holds the key to knowing God's plan.  That plan does not end when Jesus returns, but the start of a new era.  An era that will last 1000 years, because God is not finished with mankind yet.  This era is called "the first dominion".  The first dominion of Christ.  The second dominion will be the era after this when all is finished.

Close to the end of the new testament, it is "revealed" in the book of Revelation that when Christ returns, the devil will be bound for a 1000 years in order to not deceive "the nations" any more, until the 1000 years is over.  Then after the 1000 years, the devil will be let loose again.  In the OT, this 1000 years was not revealed, because it was given to John to reveal.  However, the prophets spoke of a time during "God's rest", when the earth will be at rest free from wars and troubles, this they knew but didn't understand fully because it was not all revealed and tied up as to when or how.   The earth has never been free from wars and oppression before.  So it's future.

 Revelation 20:2   And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

  Revelation 20:3   And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
 

This is where we start, and should show us that after Christ returns, and shuts the devil up, putting a seal upon him in his prison, the bottomless pit.... in which he cannot get out..... for a thousand years, proves that nations still exist.  Therefore not all nations are destroyed where the ungodly dwell.

There will be survivors of Armageddon amongst all nations, who did not take place in the first resurrection.  These are the remnants of the gentiles that will be spared to breed again and repopulate the earth.  They are flesh, and they go by time, therefore a thousand years is given to them to increase their numbers.  With the devil locked up, they have truth preached to them for a thousand years, with no wars.  Somebody needs to organise these nations, to give them law and order, and that's what Christ is sent back for.  He will reign over the earth with his saints who took part in the first resurrection, and his headquarters will be in Jerusalem.  In Jerusalem, the remnants of Israel will dwell there.  The nations are outside.  Israel will be taught truth.  Christ will bring Israel back to God, because of mercy.  Note: the remnants does not mean everybody, but only a small portion.

 

Revelation 20:4   And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years

It is not only those who were beheaded that will reign with Christ for a thousand years, for this just shows us that these martyrs of the end times will be included in the resurrection.  These are the last ones.

 

Revelation 20:5   But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

The dead not in Christ, from all past generations will not share in this special time to come, therefore will not witness the 1000 year rest.  They stay in their graves until the thousand years is over, ...and await judgment to be judged according to the books.

I will leave it there, and if you want to discuss further I will bring out the OT prophesies for you to consider.

[Sister]

24 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Hello Sister! I consider myself blessed to have the opportunity to discuss this with you. I do not study the Bible through a church, study group or other teachers (some people say thats my problem!..lol). I really just trust the Holy Spirit , and definitely when spiritual principles need to be applied. I do not copy from anyone else's material as well .

Hi Walter Goraj jr

I commend you on studying the bible for yourself and relying on the Holy Spirit to teach you.  That is what Jesus told us to do.  I have not studied the bible through a church also, because I wanted to find the truth for myself without any preconceived notions.  Only through coming on to these forums since around 2007,  have I become familiar with most of the different viewpoints, which has helped me enormously, to go back to the Word and verify or object what has been presented to me, and to challenge my own truth on whether it can be backed up or not with scripture, and how I came to my conclusions.  This for me is not a battle of the intellects, but a deep love for my God, and my saviour, who slowly took the scales of my eyes and drew me closer to him because I loved truth, no matter how ugly or pretty, and it was this love for the truth, in reading, that I noticed my nakedness and sin that was still present, that it became a massive turning point in my life.  So knowledge is not gained overnight, and with knowledge we can either scratch the surface, or go even deeper into the things that God wants to show us, and this topic is one of them that has absolutely blown my mind and shown me the wonderful plan that God has in store and how he operates and declares things "early", well in advance, for a witness and a testimony for all who trust in his Word, to know, receive and believe every spoken word of his will be fulfilled, with nothing left out.  In other words he wants us to know his full plan which he has hidden from the world, and those who love and seek with their whole heart and soul, and who have repented not from the surface, but from deep within the heart will he reveal and open up the scriptures like you've never seen before.  Maybe not all at once, but in time according to the measure we give, is that same measure we receive.

Quote

Could you share with me any verse from the Old Testament (heck even outside of the Book of Revelation in the New Testament) that specifically contains the language of a"Thousand-Year reign" or "millenial" reign ? While there are references of Jesus Christ reigning, the context is For ever :  (ex. Is.24:23, Micah 4:7,Ps. 146:10).               So with all the different interpretations of how this Thousand-Year kingdom is supposed to play out there aren't any verses that coincide with a thousand years as stated in Revelation, which I do not consider to be a literal thousand years at all.

Firstly, the Kingdom of God is in heaven. This is an eternal kingdom with no end.  It just has different levels and stages before it all melds into one.   Christ came preaching the kingdom of God, the heavenly kingdom.  Because Christ was faithful unto death,  God has annointed him, and given him full authority to take dominion of this earth at his return.  His first job has been done, and that was to convert the souls of all them who took part in the first resurrection.  All cleaned up, and given white robes of righteousness.  The second stage is to bring Israel back to God, and take their shame away from falling away from the Most high, and for rejecting Christ.  All this is done because God chose them from the beginning, to be a separate people, and used an example for us today, how quickly one can fall back into captivity when he does not obey the law of God.  And thirdly, God knows how powerful Satan's influence has been on mankind.  With Satan locked up, mankind has another chance of starting again fresh without distortion.  Only the truth will be preached, and Christ's laws must be obeyed or there are consequences for the nations.  So Israel's job will be to learn truth, and teach it to the nations.  Men still have free choice, and evil will still exist (outside of the kingdom), because even though Satan is locked up, evil is not yet destroyed.  And this will be another lesson for us, how men take the mercy of God for granted. 

 

 Isaiah 65:17   For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
 

So the above is just a statement.  A truth.  This is how it will end up.

In Rev 20 we are given the order of events.  Devil locked up.  Saints ruling with Christ for a thousand years, devil released after the 1000 years to lead the Gog and Magog war, then devil thrown into the lake of fire, then judgement according to the books, then death and hell itself thrown into the lake of fire.....meaning all finished and judged.  So all this happens before God creates the new heavens and a new earth. Now read the lead up to this statement.

Isaiah 65:18   But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

Isaiah 65:19   And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

Isaiah 65:20   There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

 Isaiah 65:21   And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

 Isaiah 65:22   They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

 Isaiah 65:23   They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.

 Isaiah 65:24   And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

  Isaiah 65:25   The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

This has never happened on the earth ever!  Children are being born.  They live a long life to a hundred years old.  They are flesh.  Children don't die young, they are not stillborn, or die of disease or accidents, but die naturally of old age.  They are protected.  The people build their own houses and no one is ripped off.  They are not oppressed. Animals living at peace with each other and with man.  This is a glimpse into the kingdom on earth where the remnants of Israel will dwell in peace.  But the kingdom is not perfect yet, because death still exists.  Therefore this cannot be the new heavens and the new earth.

I will give some more of the scriptures relating to this in the following reply.

 

 

[Sister]

Isaiah 11:4   But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

  Isaiah 11:5   And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

  Isaiah 11:6   The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

  Isaiah 11:7   And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

  Isaiah 11:8   And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

  Isaiah 11:9   They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

  Isaiah 11:10   And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

  Isaiah 11:11   And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

  Isaiah 11:12   And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

  Isaiah 11:13   The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.
 

  Isaiah 11:14   But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.

  Isaiah 11:15   And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.

  Isaiah 11:16   And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

[Sister]

 Isaiah 49:5   And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.

  Isaiah 49:6   And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

  Isaiah 49:7   Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

  Isaiah 49:8   Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;

  Isaiah 49:9   That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places.

  Isaiah 49:10   They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.

  Isaiah 49:11   And I will make all my mountains a way, and my highways shall be exalted.

  Isaiah 49:12   Behold, these shall come from far: and, lo, these from the north and from the west; and these from the land of Sinim.

  Isaiah 49:13   Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.

 

 Isaiah 54:13   And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

  Isaiah 54:14   In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.

 

Speaking to Israel.

Isaiah 60:1   Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.

  Isaiah 60:2   For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

  Isaiah 60:3   And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

  Isaiah 60:4   Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.

  Isaiah 60:5   Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.

 

Isaiah 60:9   Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the LORD thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee.

  Isaiah 60:10   And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee.

  Isaiah 60:11   Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.

  Isaiah 60:12   For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.

  Isaiah 60:13   The glory of Lebanon shall come unto thee, the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box together, to beautify the place of my sanctuary; and I will make the place of my feet glorious.

  Isaiah 60:14   The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

  Isaiah 60:15   Whereas thou hast been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through thee, I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy of many generations.

  Isaiah 60:16   Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

  Isaiah 60:17   For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make thy officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness.

  Isaiah 60:18   Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.

  Isaiah 60:19   The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

  Isaiah 60:20   Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

  Isaiah 60:21   Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.

  Isaiah 60:22   A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time.

[Alive]

Yup---if folks wanna to see the fate of Israel read Isaiah 60-63.

Great stuff.

[Sister]

Zephaniah 3:8   Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.

  Zephaniah 3:9   For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.

  Zephaniah 3:10   From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.

  Zephaniah 3:11   In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.

  Zephaniah 3:12   I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the LORD.

  Zephaniah 3:13   The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.

  Zephaniah 3:14   Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem.

  Zephaniah 3:15   The LORD hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the LORD, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.

  Zephaniah 3:16   In that day it shall be said to Jerusalem, Fear thou not: and to Zion, Let not thine hands be slack.

  Zephaniah 3:17   The LORD thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.

  Zephaniah 3:18   I will gather them that are sorrowful for the solemn assembly, who are of thee, to whom the reproach of it was a burden.

  Zephaniah 3:19   Behold, at that time I will undo all that afflict thee: and I will save her that halteth, and gather her that was driven out; and I will get them praise and fame in every land where they have been put to shame.

  Zephaniah 3:20   At that time will I bring you again, even in the time that I gather you: for I will make you a name and a praise among all people of the earth, when I turn back your captivity before your eyes, saith the LORD.

 

 Jeremiah 3:17   At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.

 

 

 Jeremiah 33:6   Behold, I will bring it health and cure, and I will cure them, and will reveal unto them the abundance of peace and truth.

  Jeremiah 33:7   And I will cause the captivity of Judah and the captivity of Israel to return, and will build them, as at the first.

  Jeremiah 33:8   And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me; and I will pardon all their iniquities, whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me.

  Jeremiah 33:9   And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honour before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.

 

There is so much more, but I will stop there for now and let you just soak it in.   Just showing you that all these prophesies have not been fulfilled yet.  Hopefully you can get a gist now how God is going to turn everything around, and what he plans for Israel during the millennium.  The difference is that Israel will be brought into the kingdom of Christ on earth in the flesh.  They will not be part of the first resurrection, but will take part in the 2nd resurrection, after this 1000 years is finished.  There will be gentiles in that 2nd resurrection also, the ones yet to be born.  And only after all this is accomplished can the heavens and the earth be melted and renewed.  At this stage, all who have been in both resurrections, will be united all as one and this is what Christ will present to the Father.

 

1 Corinthians 15:24   Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

  1 Corinthians 15:25   For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

  1 Corinthians 15:26   The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

  1 Corinthians 15:27   For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

  1 Corinthians 15:28   And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.