Why Did Jesus Die For Us

[Kabowd]

Saving faith will produce a changed life. A person who is saved is trusting Christ alone for their salvation, not their works

By trusting in your works you are showing that you don't really trust Jesus.....

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Short, sweet and to the point!

[tsth]

The outward works are the evidence of the inward belief in the working power of Jesus.

They are one.

Remember the building of the ark.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Tishri 1]

"why can't we be friends..." I know I'm new here, but this is really easy for me to see...different people have different ways of relating to the Father and His Son...to each his own I say...you can't squeeze water from a turnip...So someone has a strong opinion that is different than my strong opinion....good for them, in the long run it doesn't matter what either of us think but what God thinks right? So I can share My opinion and you yours...we will see who was closer in the end Want to know what I think? Those people who are truly saved are busy pleasing him when things are going good in life, trying hard to hold on to him when things are not right with their life, and still in love with Him but not doing a thing that shows it when things are horrible. Should that pleasing Him include some sort of walking in His Ways and His Word.....If it were me ...I would...

[Fisher of Men]

Saving faith will produce a changed life. A person who is saved is trusting Christ alone for their salvation, not their works 

 

By trusting in your works you are showing that you don't really trust Jesus..... 

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Short, sweet and to the point!

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Not correct.

A person who is saved is glorying in Christ for changing them and producing the works of righteousness that make that person eligible for eternal life. It is not of works that they can boast of but rather the work of Christ that died and rose that enabled the believer to die to self and rise in Him as a new changed creature by the power of regeneration of the Holy Ghost.

Under the law there were laws and there was you. Laws on stone and unregenerated hearts don't go too well together. Hence the condemnation described in Rom. 7.

Under the NT there is Christ's death and resurrection. By hearing the message of His death for us and being effected by that to respond in obedience to his word, a supernatural occurence takes place that changes our hearts.

We did not earn that changed heart, it came about as a fulfillment of His promise to give us His Spirit if we would agree to the terms of this New Covenant and yield ourselves to His words. See Acts 5 :32.

By trusting in your works you are showing that you don't really trust Jesus.....

I suspect that what the author of the above infamous statement means by that, is that if a person is being obedient to Jesus and is hoping that that faithfulness has some effect concerning whether or not they will inherit eternal life, then that means they are not trusting in Jesus. So abiding in Him for the sake of being saved is not trusting in Jesus?

Look at it like this, When Jesus was asked by a young man what he must do to inherit eternal life, Jesus answered and said he must not kill, steal or commit adultery (among other things in his answer).

Paul wrote and said to saved Christians by way of warning them, that if they kill, steal or commit adultery (among other things) they will not inherit eternal life.

[Thought he NT and OT share many of the same commandments, the means of obedience is completely different. Not only have numerous moral things from the old been changed in the NT but the Spirit is available to NT believers empowering them enabling them to obey. Hence the differentiating between being under the law (OT condemnation) as opposed to being under grace (NT righteous living). The ultimate expression of extending his favour or grace to us is to give us His Spirit (Christ in us the hope of Glory) that cleans us up morally.]

So I suspect that if a humble believer accepts Paul's exhortation that those immoral things will keep him out of eternal life and if he prays for the Spirit to help him not yield his members to commit such deeds so that he will not be rejected from eternal life (since doing those things will cause him to be rejected), if he then finds the grace and strength to NOT commit those things and he therefore has a good conscious toward God and thereby has hope of eternal life by virtue of the enabling power of God working through him, the writer of the above quote will accuse that same faithful brother of being deceived for believing that God in Him keeping him from immoral things has something to do with his inheriting eternal life. He will be accused of not trusting in Jesus.

What we do as believers will definitely determine where we go:

Rev. 22:

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

(God's NT commandments as revealed by Jesus)

Acts 10:

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

1 Pet. 1:

14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Rom. 2:

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

John 5:

26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The old line that we don't do works to be saved, we do works because we have been saved is a false subtle ploy of Satan.

The truth is that we had to do works to get saved (faith, repentance, etc.)

We do good works because we have been saved

And we know that we must continue in those good works of being obedient to Christ and yielding ourselves to him in order to be ultimately saved (the actual entering in through the gates into the city.

Edited June 26, 2005 by Fisher of Men

[jc49]

Faith leads to actions, thus if a person has bad works, they have bad faith.

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I completely agree, and I'm sure FOM probably does too, so again we are left with those who have bad works, they have bad actions, and are workers of iniquity, and are cast into the fire, thereby making their works a (vital component).

No one is proclaiming works without the working effectual power of Jesus Christ in us, I don't believe? At least I'm not, but we also cannot jump up and down in anger, when the examination of our works is called for in terms of salvation. (See Gen. 4 in previous posting.) This anger is nothing new.

In His Love,

Suzanne

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First, you ignored my entire post and context tha more than responds to what you're saying. I expect you to reply to it.

Secondly, you're missing the fact that a person who does bad works has bad faith. In essence, works has ntohign to do with our salvation, it is the faith. I pointed that out, gave excdellent analysis, and you ignored it. Until you respond to that post, your points are moot

As for using the OLD COVENANTTHAT WE HAVE BEEN SET FREE FROM to justify your position of works, go for it. But you better start attending temple and not Church, because it's a Jewish belief, not a Christian one.

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[jc49]

Saving faith will produce a changed life. A person who is saved is trusting Christ alone for their salvation, not their works

By trusting in your works you are showing that you don't really trust Jesus.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Short, sweet and to the point!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[tsth]

Saving faith will produce a changed life. A person who is saved is trusting Christ alone for their salvation, not their works

[Fisher of Men]

How do you believe Jesus if not by your works,

What in the world? I'd still like a response to my other posts and Super Jew's posts...but I couldn't ignore this. Since when does Scripture teach that works produce faith? That's essentially what you just said. Doing works does not create belief in Jesus. Faith in Jesus is what produces works. You have it all backwards.

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Dear Tess,

You seemed to have misunderstood what you quoted. The author is saying that our faith is demonstrated by our works. The expression of our believing is in the doing of what we believe.

But nevertheless, lets say someone comes to me and says, I need faith, what can I do that will give me faith? Is there anything I can do? Is there a work I can do that will create faith in Jesus?

Well, the answer is yes. Do you know what is that work that we can do that will create faith in Jesus?

[HILL]

I guess you better close this one too before someone learns the truth.

[Ovedya]

Okay.