What Noah Could Have Said But Didn't

[Kabowd]

And that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works,lest any man should boast. Grace is not of man, Grace is a gift of God, you can do nothing to deserve it, including our faith is not sufficient to deserve Gods grace. Otherwise one could boast to have more faith than another, and therefore have more Grace. Grace is not earnable, it is a gift

This interpretation is flawed. Faith is not of ourselves either.....

[WayneB]

Actually I think this is common ground.

[EricH]

And that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works,lest any man should boast. Grace is not of man, Grace is a gift of God, you can do nothing to deserve it, including our faith is not sufficient to deserve Gods grace. Otherwise one could boast to have more faith than another, and therefore have more Grace. Grace is not earnable, it is a gift

This interpretation is flawed. Faith is not of ourselves either.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great minds think alike!

[Kabowd]

Are you telling me that nobody knows the work we can do to get faith?

Lie.

Show me Scripture (in context) that says works produce faith. I'll save you some time...you won't find it. Faith is a GIFT FROM GOD, not of works, as has been stated NUMEROUS times now but you refuse to open your heart to the truth....instead you cling to the lie. Listen carefully: works do NOT produce faith. That is backwards. Works are a product of faith..they spring forth from (or out of) faith, not the other way around.

Everything about our salvation revolves around works.

Lie.

Everything about our salvation revolves around Christ and His shed blood.

After hearing the gospel message, you had to make a conscious decision to do something. Do you know what that something was. Without that work, you would not have repented (a work) prayed (a work) sought him for the Spirit (a work) and been baptized (a work).

Everything you stated can all be attributed to the Holy Spirit, not any "work" of ourselves. Even repentance is a gift (according to 2 Timothy 2:25). The ONLY way we are able to even obey God is because His Spirit is already alive in us. Again, this means they flow out of a heart of faith...they don't produce faith.

As long as Noah was working, he was at peace with God and was assured that God would see him and his family through. He had a good conscience.

Lie.

Re-read the book, dude. Did God find favor in Noah before or after he built the ark? Noah was at peace with God (because of his faith) long before he did the "work" of building the ark.

[Guest shiloh357]

Actually I think this is common ground.

[Ovedya]

FoM

Ovedya, There were some very serious flaws in your explanation of Eph. 2.

You left out a major component in what Paul is saying in Eph. 2:1-3; those deeds of walking according to the prince of the power of the air thereby making them children of disobedience was no longer a reality. Hence the definition of saved in this chapter means saved from committing those sins since they were no longer doing them. But leaving it out is crucial in order to justify the heresy that he came to save us in spite of our sin instead of FROM our sin.

I didn't say that they were a reality. I don't understand how you get this from what I wrote. There is nothing in this passage that states explicitly or even indicates that the believers are saved from the sins that they once committed. That's not even in the context! The verses state clearly that these things are what the believers were saved out of, in spite of themselves (ie. their ability to do anything about it through works) not in spite of their sins. I think you need to go back and read what I wrote again. I did not write that Christ came to die in in spite of our sin. Not at any time. In fact, the first three verses tell us what we were saved from, not what we were saved in spite of.

I don't get your analogy of the airplane. Sorry, it just doesn't make any sense to me.

[Kansasdad]

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

And that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works,lest any man should boast.

[Kansasdad]

Actually I think this is common ground.

[Kabowd]

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

And that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works,lest any man should boast.

[Kabowd]

Actually I think this is common ground.