Not of works? Really?

[jc49]

Galatians 2:21

I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law-(Meaning works), Christ died for nothing!"

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PRAISE THE LORD TRINITY!!

[Fisher of Men]

Galatians 2:21

I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law-(Meaning works), Christ died for nothing!"

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PRAISE THE LORD TRINITY!!

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ic49

You are interpreting law to mean works including being obedient to Christ when Paul is making reference to walking after the OT system. If we could be right by the OT system then there was no need for Christ. The OT system didn't offer the power of the Holy Ghost operating within the believer to not walk after the lust of the flesh. That could only come after the payment was made of Christ's death that took care of past sins by forgiveness and offers solution to the future potential to sin by the power of the Holy Ghost to restrain us from it.

Applying law to mean new testament obedience means we are not made right with God by believing, repenting, praying, getting baptised etc. since those are all works.

And if those things have nothing to do with us being right with God, then they must not be necessary. It would then be wrong to teach that believers should do those things in order to be right with God (be justified).

Therefore nothing is necesssary for the believers to do in order for them to be right with God. And if anyone teaches that there are things that believers must do to be right with God then they are teaching false doctrine because believers are not justified by "works". This is in effect the absurdity of interpreting "law" to mean acts of obedience to Christ.

When in reality Paul is saying that no man is made right by trying to please God after the OT system that did not have available in it the regenerating power of the Holy Ghost that cleans up the believer morally as is found in the NT system. Only by Christ's death and resurrection could that grace be ministered to believers.

[Kabowd]

Tess,

[Kabowd]

Galatians 2:21

I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law-(Meaning works), Christ died for nothing!"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

PRAISE THE LORD TRINITY!!

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ic49

You are interpreting law to mean works including being obedient to Christ when Paul is making reference to walking after the OT system. If we could be right by the OT system then there was no need for Christ. The OT system didn't offer the power of the Holy Ghost operating within the believer to not walk after the lust of the flesh. That could only come after the payment was made of Christ's death that took care of past sins by forgiveness and offers solution to the future potential to sin by the power of the Holy Ghost to restrain us from it.

Applying law to mean new testament obedience means we are not made right with God by believing, repenting, praying, getting baptised etc. since those are all works.

And if those things have nothing to do with us being right with God, then they must not be necessary. It would then be wrong to teach that believers should do those things in order to be right with God (be justified).

Therefore nothing is necesssary for the believers to do in order for them to be right with God. And if anyone teaches that there are things that believers must do to be right with God then they are teaching false doctrine because believers are not justified by "works". This is in effect the absurdity of interpreting "law" to mean acts of obedience to Christ.

When in reality Paul is saying that no man is made right by trying to please God after the OT system that did not have available in it the regenerating power of the Holy Ghost that cleans up the believer morally as is found in the NT system. Only by Christ's death and resurrection could that grace be ministered to believers.

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Very well put. You can't righteously argue with that. Especially with scriptures like this in the New Testament.

Mt 7:21

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. "WORKS"

Mt 7:23

And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!']. "WORKS"

Lu 13:27

But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.']. "WORKS"

Mt 13:41

The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,]. "WORKS"

1Jo 3:4

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.]. "WORKS"

Ro 6:19

I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

]. "WORKS"

Here are a couple more to ponder.

2Co 11:15

Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

Mt 16:27

For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

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You need to be very cauteous. A large portion of the verses you quoted are taken highly out of context. Some of them are in reference to false teachers/prophets and not even talking about believers.

Anyone can do a word search for the word "works" and come up with verse to list. Let's dig a little deeper and search with understanding. No one is denying that those who are in Christ should (and will) produce good works. The problem with what Fisher is teaching is that these works aid us in salvation, that they are necessary to ensure our salvation. This is nothing short of adding to the gospel and spitting on the sacrifice of Christ.

[WayneB]

Anyone can do a word search for the word "works" and come up with verse to list. Let's dig a little deeper and search with understanding. No one is denying that those who are in Christ should (and will) produce good works. The problem with what Fisher is teaching is that these works aid us in salvation, that they are necessary to ensure our salvation. This is nothing short of adding to the gospel and spitting on the sacrifice of Christ.

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Tess, you are absolutely right.

Those who are in Jesus Christ have the indwelt Holy Spirit of God... the ONE who is in these is greater than the one who is in the world. [re: 1 John 4:4] Salvation is not a wage we have been given for our works or obedience but rather a GIFT of God. We could never be obedient enough or work hard enough to earn our salvation, which is why the only wage paid is for sin and that leads to death.

It is ALL HIS works through us, which is why one day, we will lay our crowns before HIM just as the twenty-four elders. [re: Rev 4:10]

...FOR HE alone is worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power. We are but HIS vessels through which HE does good works according to HIS purpose.

Salvation is by GRACE alone and any good works that comes forth are HIS work, not ours.

Those who think the works they do are a prerequisite to salvation should ask themselves now: "What will I do with my crown one day?"

Remember what Jesus told Paul:

"But he said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.' Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me." 2 Corinthians 12:9

It is HIS work...

"...and to know this love that surpasses knowledge

[Kabowd]

For Fisher:

Plagiarize \'pla-je-,riz also j - -\ vb -rized; -riz

[Guest quadding101]

The bible is like a giant puzzle, to understand the bible u must take ALL the bible says about a subject and put it together. If u take part and leave some out or pick and choose what u will believe ur puzzle will be wrong and incomplete (false doctrine). When u put scriptures together u get a picture that makes some scripture not mean exactly what it says or u will have contradictions. Example-prayer, One place say (whatever I sak), If i go by this then it is up to me. Another place says (According to God's will), If I go by this then it is all up to God. Another place says (I can ask amiss). If I find ALL the bible says about prayer then I get a picture that says God answers in 1 of 3 ways, YES, NO, and YES BUT WAIT. We must do ALL subjects like this and if we do, it will change a lot of the pictures that the present day church has. If we find ALL the bible says about what it takes to be saved then it is by grace and not works except it does take the works of repentance and faith. If we r to discuss what it takes to keep God or what some would call stay in grace then it does take works, it is called obedience.

Edited June 27, 2005 by quadding101

[eric]

This board is getting infested with heretics and plagiarists and cults who are trying to push their own agenda and confusing the minds of genuine young truth seekers. However we have many good defenders of the faith, who will sort out their sacreligious and blasphemous statements.

eric.

[Fisher of Men]

eric writes:

This board is getting infested with heretics and plagiarists and cults who are trying to push their own agenda and confusing the minds of genuine young truth seekers. However we have many good defenders of the faith, who will sort out their sacreligious and blasphemous statements.

The body of Christ will always be accused of being sacrilegious and blasphemous.

Didn't they do that when Christ had His singular body while on earth?

But "plagiarists", now that is an interesting word.

I wonder who the plagiarists are who are being accused of plagiarism.

Can someone please tell me who they might be?

Eric, do you know, since you are alleging that some are plagiarizing on this forum?

[Fisher of Men]

1) This is another plagarized article

2) It's the third or fourth of the same topic created by you

3) No matter how good our responses are you ignore them and repeat your arguement.

So what's the point?

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Please share with everyone your definition of plagiarized. Should I take this as a formal accusation?

I don't agree that your responses are at all good.