Using triangulation to come to a definitive chronology

[dhchristian]

2 hours ago, Alive said:

But there are so many, even on this forum, that are wildly different?

Most of us agree on the basics, but disagree on the details. Most believe in the rapture, but disagree when. Most agree on a final week, a few say 3.5 years. Most are premillennial, But not all. You get the Point. What is the old saying, "the truth is in the details"... I think it applies here.

[dhchristian]

Just now, Dennis1209 said:

Now you want to start a metal detecting war with me  

Yeah the Garrett AT Pro I hear is a nice machine, many like the Hoover Boys love them. I personally have and use the Minelab Etrac and Minelab Equinox. Found a lot of nice old coins and relics over the years. 

I Love watching them Hoover boys vids. 

[Alive]

19 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Now you want to start a metal detecting war with me  

Yeah the Garrett AT Pro I hear is a nice machine, many like the Hoover Boys love them. I personally have and use the Minelab Etrac and Minelab Equinox. Found a lot of nice old coins and relics over the years. 

The E-trac out performs the wife’s AT Pro.

Deeper and better discrimination.

LOL

Our best finds are King George coins and Revolutionary era buttons.

[Dennis1209]

2 minutes ago, Alive said:

The E-trac out performs the wife’s AT Pro.

Deeper and better discrimination.

LOL

Our best finds are King George coins and Revolutionary era buttons.

I've owned the Etrac and equivalents [Minelab Explorer] for years. They work excellent when the soil conditions are good, and the ground has not been disturbed for a long time. For some reason, they don't want to pick up like other machines unless the object has been in the ground for a long time [example garden test and throwing coins on the ground]. On my Etrac, like every other equivalent I've owned, I have the Sunray X-1 probe installed on it. It makes changing out different size coils much easier and faster. Problem is, I have shoulder problems and can't swing it all that long, so I'm using the Nox more frequently.

I came from an area with a lot of 150 year old parks and had prior history before that. It was nothing to come home with a handful of Mercury, Barber, Seated, Indians and occasional Capped Bust coins. Then I retired and moved to Hooterville and not a lot of places to go. Tennessee has a lot of stupid laws about metal detecting and you're pretty much restricted to hunting private property. My mouth drools thinking about finding King Georges and Revolutionary War relics, but not around here. Best find so far early this year:

[Alive]

Very nice find! We are from NH, so there is lots of opportunity.

We came to Oklahoma to take care of Toni’s mom. Not much opportunity where we are, but Lord willing, we will be back home before long.

Hr mom passed and we are settling the estate. Nothing to keep us here and the grand babies are all back on NH.

 

[iamlamad]

7 hours ago, Alive said:

And yet as I stated before---well intentioned individuals have studied their hearts out and have wildly conflicting views.

This doesn't square up with the point regarding different members have some pieces and are energetic when defending them.

Agreed! Most people seem to have pieces of puzzles, but I have discovered, they are for DIFFERENT PUZZLES!  So it is no wonder they all conflict with THIS puzzle! Case in point: the rapture cannot happen in a dozen different times!  It is going to happen ONCE.  That ONCE will be only one place in Revelation. 

Edited November 13, 2019 by iamlamad

[The Light]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

Very nice find! We are from NH, so there is lots of opportunity.

We came to Oklahoma to take care of Toni’s mom. Not much opportunity where we are, but Lord willing, we will be back home before long.

Hr mom passed and we are settling the estate. Nothing to keep us here and the grand babies are all back on NH.

 

Nothing to keep you there? It's quail season son, don't talk like that.

[iamlamad]

DH says the days of great tribulation(GT) Jesus spoke of are in the first half of the week. RM says they are in the second half.

Can we look at scriptures in Revelation that tell us more about those days?

First, I think or hope that all will agree it is the Beast and False Prophet that CAUSE those days of GT that Jesus spoke of? After all, Jesus said those days would begin right after the abomination.

I think many here will agree that this abomination could well be (probably is) when the man of sin will enter the temple and declare he is God. ONLY the high priest is allowed into the most holy place, and he only once a hear. But this man of sin – probably a Gentile – is going to enter the most holy place and declare that HE is the God of Israel! Paul tells us this.

Daniel 9:27

AMP   but in the middle of the week he will stop the sacrifice 

CSB  in the middle of the week 

CEB   For a half-week, he will stop both sacrifices and offerings.

CJB  For half of the week he will put a stop to the sacrifice

CEV  halfway through this week, he will end all sacrifices and offerings.

DARBY  in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease

ESV   for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering

EXB  He will ·stop [make cease] the offerings and sacrifices after ·three and one-half years [^La half a seven/week]. 

HCSB  in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering

ICB   He will put a stop to offerings and sacrifices after 3½ years.

ISV  for half of the week he will suspend both the sacrifice and grain offerings

 I posted many because some translate this verse and in particular the KJV word “midst” differently.

Strongs shows for the bible usages of this word:
1  half

  A  half

  B  middle

This verse then is saying that about half way through the week of 2520 days, some event will stop the daily sacrifices and divide the week into two halves. Is there proof of this?  Can we tell if this is what Daniel meant? In other words, can we find proof of a half week? Certainly we can.

Daniel 7:25  And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. Continued:

Edited November 13, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Rev. 11:² But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

 Rev 11:³ And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

 Rev. 12:⁶ And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

 Rev. 12:¹⁴ And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

 Rev. 13:⁵ And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

 Can we all agree then – with these 7 verses as proof – that the author’s intent in Dan. 9:27 is that the week will be divided in half by the abomination?

 

Therefore we have:

 

START____________________________________HALF______________________________________END

 

Can we find this half way point somewhere in Revelation?  Maybe we can get close. There are 5 mentions of this half way point in Revelation, so it just makes good sense that the half way point MUST be in the chapters with these mentions of the half week.  Therefore it is conclusive: the midpoint is somewhere in chapters 11, 12, or 13.

 Can we get closer? I think so. Jesus told those in Judea to flee the moment they see the abomination. Where then is their fleeing?

 Rev. 12:⁶ And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

 We must account for some reaction time, so lets say 5 seconds before this fleeing MUST BE the abomination. Or, we can say the midpoint of the week is at 12:6 give or take a few seconds. And Jesus said that the days of GT must come AFTER the abomination. Right?   Continued:

Edited November 13, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

It seems then that the bible itself proves the days of GT will be AFTER 12:6. Can we agree on this?

Now that we have established the midpoint,  what is the Beast and false prophet going to DO actually to cause days of great pressure (GT)?

Rev. 13

¹⁴ And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

¹⁵ And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.  (Just like Nebuchadnezzar!)

¹⁶ And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

¹⁷ And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

We must keep in mind that the Two witnesses can stop the rain! Then consider all the fresh water turned to blood. The only water fit to drink may well be in stores – but to buy water one must take the mark.

Now we see the great pressure: if you are found, you will be placed before the image and forced to bow – or die. If you bow, then you will be forced to accept the mark – or die. People are going to get very thirsty!

Now, we must consider this verse too:

Rev. 14:⁹ And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

¹⁰ The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

¹¹ And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.  Continued:

Edited November 13, 2019 by iamlamad