A Future Seven Years?

[Buddy D. Mouse]

Some SPIRITUALIZE the 2 witnesses to be Church and Israel or other things, I don't care if they will be Mary Magdalene and Margaret Macdonald, but how will I recognize them when they come?

I have moved away from any "newspaper eschatology" that was prevalent when I believed in PreTrib, I don't want to Gog when I should Magog, I don't know about present day Israel, and "enemies of the Gospel, but beloved for the sake of the Fathers", it is kind of perplexing.

I support present-day Israel because they are a FELLOW DEMOCRACY surrounded by hostile neighbors intent on wiping them off the face of the earth, but I am not looking for Gog of Magog to be comin' round the mountain and blood up to the horses' necks - it all seems so fantastical

[Sister]

7 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Sister,

The Greek Septuagint Old Testament indicates the 70th Shabua extends to the "end of time"

"And one week shall establish the covenant with many; and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink offering shall be taken away: and on the Temple shall be the abomination of desolations; and at the end of time an end shall be put to the desolation".........Dan 9:27 LXX

This was the Old Testament text of the early church.  We cannot - and should not - ignore the Septuagint version. It precludes an historic fulfillment of the 70 Shabua. 

Hi Joe Canada

I don't recognise that version.  It doesn't make sense.  The angel is giving the vision.  It's not Jesus speaking directly but the angel giving the prophecy.

 

[Buddy D. Mouse]

The Orthodox Study Bible's OT is Septuagint-based. I will give it's version later, when I have time

[OneLight]

I hope this is clear enough for all to read.

[Buddy D. Mouse]

Daniel 9:26-27

Orthodox Study Bible

26

After the sixty-two weeks, the Anointed One shall be put to death, yet there shall be no upright judgement for Him; and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince who is coming, and they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war, which will be cut short, he shall appoint the city to desolations. 

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week, and in the middle of the week, My sacrifice and drink-offering will be taken away; and there shall be in the Temple the abomination of desolations, and to the end of the time, an end to the desolation shall be appointed.

 

 

[Buddy D. Mouse]

I have no axe to grind, no specific End Time position to defend, just trying to understand.

[Sister]

8 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Everyone is in agreement that the 7 Shabuim ( weeks of years) and the 62 Shabuim, added together constitute the 483 year countdown to Messiah the Prince. 

It's actually more simple than that.  The prophecy was given in weeks.  We are not required to be mathematicians and work out exactly how many years passed for the prophecy to be fulfilled.  We know it was fulfilled and we know Christ died on the cross.  Go back to the prophecy and read again.  70 weeks for the commandment to build the temple to it's destruction, and we are told that happened in 70Ad.  Who knows if that date is even correct?  Regardless, the temple was destroyed by the Romans, and since then Israel have had no temple or sanctuary.  You see it doesn't matter how many years went by, the fact is that it happened and the Messiah came into that temple, and was rejected by the very ones who supposedly served God in that temple.  Do we need specific years to prove this?  Why does it have to be made so complicated?

 

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So then, how is it that the  70th  Shabua, the last week, 7 years, gets stretched all the way to the...."week ended with Jerusalem and the temple being destroyed in 70AD. "???  ...........That would account for somewhere around 40 (+-) years. How do you reconcile that? 

 

 

You are interpreting the last week to be 7 years?  Why? because everyone says so?

Stick to the weeks, it's more simple.

The seven weeks is not at the end, but at the beginning.   That's the mistake everyone is making.  I know it's not an easy prophecy, I realise that and it took me years to understand and feel settled about it....but that is the understanding that was given to me.  I am showing how I understand it.  You are free to reject my explanation.  My understanding is that the temple took 7 weeks from the commandment to build (the final go ahead), to it's finish.   In John it says it took 46 years to build.  That to me is a big clue which many are ignoring.  So how does that work into your maths?  I realised that the 7 weeks is speaking about the 46 years.  Seven weeks indicates that 46 year phase.  That's the stage I am talking about.  It doesn't matter how long it took, we know it happened, and if you want to use the maths base it on this?, but it still wont work, because the prophecy is massively misunderstood and has become a doctrine that I don't buy into.

 

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Where do the 483 years end? At the birth of the Messiah?...... at His Baptism?.....at the beginning of His ministry?.........on Palm Sunday?.......

Here we go with the years again?

You should ask where does the 70th week finish because the prophecy was given in weeks.  How am I supposed to answer according to your mathmatical interpretation that I don't prescribe to?

The prophecy is about 70 weeks.  If I was to answer where does the 70th week end, it would be when the temple was destroyed by the Romans. 

This is the irony of it.  Daniel was concerned for his people, and not just concerned but in quite a state.  There was no temple and no sanctuary.  Israel were scattered and had departed from the Lord's commandments.  That prophecy gave Daniel comfort that the temple would be rebuilt (which it was)....for the purpose of the Messiah to enter (and many years later he did), and it was him that would rebuild the street (the way) during perilous times, and finish the trangressions.....the transgressions of Israel.  So there was hope for Israel, a chance to end sins.  But it was accepted by the few, not the nation, and as a result that 2nd temple which was built as prophesied, now destroyed because Israel in rejecting Christ, rejected God again, but the offer was there, and a good one.

That's all we need to understand, that it was prophesied and it happened.  The Word of God is true.  That 70 weeks is finished.  That phase has come and gone.

 

[Buddy D. Mouse]

I am interpreting the last week to be seven years because ALL the weeks are seven years.

Where to start is a command to go build Jerusalem. A date in Ezra is a bit earlier than Nehemiah' s 444 BC, there is another option way earlier than that.

We cannot IGNORE MATH in a prophecy that is given mathematically. 

I hate math, but it's a necessary reality.

Romans built wonderful things, and they had no zero in their arithmetic.

We need a start date, a consistent length of time for a shauvim, and no imagined GAPS in a prophecy about CONCURRENTLY-running time, just like 430 years for Jews in Egypt and 70 years for Jews in Babylon that Jeremiah prophesied ran CONCURRENTLY.

Beginnings. Lengths of time that don't shift like moving goalposts. Endings. Definitions/designations for who HE is by normal rules of antecedents.

It's not rocket science, but it's not easy.

 

[Buddy D. Mouse]

I agree that 70 weeks is finished - come and gone.

But 42 month period(s) in Revelation, though not part of THE WEEKS, seem yet future.

 

[Buddy D. Mouse]

Maybe at that time, THEY still had a chance to accept Jesus -then the VENGEANCE would not come, just like Jesus wanting Jerusalem to be chicks gathered under a wing of hen, but they would not.

 

The reason(s) for Jesus ending the Isaiah quote when He did do not justify a GAP in Daniel's 70 weeks.

"These BE the days of vengeance, when ALL shall be fulfilled"