Dennis1209 Posted December 17, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,471 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,379 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Online Share Posted December 17, 2019 14 hours ago, Margo1945 said: but the lake of fire of sulphur and brimstone is real We all know the rotten egg smell of sulfur. Our smell adapts to many unpleasant odors over time to the point of not even noticing them. I can't prove it but, I've heard from more than one source, that sulfur is one smell that will not diminish or one that can be adapted to over time and not notice it. So what's my point? The 'rich man' in Hades had all his senses and memory. Not only the pain, heat, torment and suffering will accompany Hell, but the eternal smell of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted December 17, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,471 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,379 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Online Share Posted December 17, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, DustyRoad said: Where did you hear that the smell of sulfur cannot eventually be "tuned out" by our senses? First hand testimonies and accounts of those exposed to it. Notice my disclaimer: I can't prove it, and heard. 17 minutes ago, DustyRoad said: In any case, what makes you think the same thing --- desensitization --- is active outside of this flesh and blood body? That doesn't make a lick of sense. I didn't say that; I implied the 'five' senses [sight, smell, taste, touch and hearing] were still intact for those whom are in jail [Hades] awaiting sentencing to the Lake of Fire [prison] for all of eternity. What senses did the 'rich man' still retain when speaking to Abraham? This is an op-ed thought and opinion, not an editorial or statement of fact. Edited December 17, 2019 by Dennis1209 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6DaysiseneG Posted December 17, 2019 Group: Members Followers: 4 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 43 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/07/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 17, 2019 The Bible is foolishness to some but others it is the power of God and stands as the final word of truth. It's hard to miss the reality of hell if you read the word. Ppl do not seem to understand that if God is good He must be just also. Again we have many examples here of corrupt justice system letting murderers go.. are you not outraged? You should be. God is a God of justice and mercy. He sent His only son to die in our place. Would you do that ? Give your childs life in place to atone for a stranger's sin? I wouldn't.. I'm not God. He makes a way to be forgiven but if one rejects that what else can save? Nothing. Remember the story of Lazarus in hell? A man dies once then the judgment. If he'll is punishment for sin and you don't believe the God then why bother with the fact that we sin.. The law was given as a mirror to us to know what sin is so we see we need a savior. Some love sin or are to prideful and will not accept Jesus' atonement. Read your Bible and stop making an idol - a God that does not exist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted December 17, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,471 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,379 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Online Share Posted December 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, 6DaysiseneG said: Remember the story of Lazarus in hell? I'm slightly confused about your post? You do mean Hell as in Hades; two compartments in the Earth separated by a great divide, one side being the torment side where the 'rich man' was sent; and the other compartment {paradise - Abraham's bosom] where Lazarus was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted December 17, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.54 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted December 17, 2019 This brings some things to the fore that I have considered while contemplating the subject of eternal torture. I know I did say that I wouldn't continue on this for now...this is no longer now from then. But now for now. Imagine for a moment a person burning in flames for one full minute. Now imagine for an entire 10 full minutes. Imagine what would be happening within the mind of that person and how they would deal with that torment. Now imagine for a moment that same individual experiencing said pain for a full 30 days without respite. What state would that person be in after such time. A complete physical and psychic shut down? This is what would happen in some fashion, if it were possible, to keep a person alive and conscious under that kind of torment/pain for even 30 days. Considering this--and eternity---no never mind--how about 10 years. A mere blip in eternity. Can you picture a loving God, who is indeed a God of justice--somehow keeping that individual alive and conscious with an intact nervous system in order for that torment to continue. To continue on and on without ceasing? Try to imagine these things and assign this to my God and yours. The Lord Jesus Christ who suffered and died for you and me and indeed the world. Do you know what the word 'Logos' means? One aspect of that word and as it pertains to Christ the Son of God can be considered and is indeed...the following. The 'Word' is the rational and reasonable reason for all things. He is and embodies all of what the Father means and expresses. Does this eternal torture seem reasonable? Keep in mind that we were made in His image with the same reasonable faculties--although in finite and shadowy terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coliseum Posted December 17, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 1,123 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 2,055 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/07/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 17, 2019 On 12/14/2019 at 9:08 AM, Alive said: Many Christians don't believe the Bible teaches that hell is a place of eternal torture. I am one of these. There is no way that the God I have come to know would torture for eternity a being who did not ask to be born into a sinful race. There is eternal Life 'In Christ' and there is a final 'death'. A perishing. Hell or Gehenna was very well understood as a trash heap outside the gates of Jerusalem where the smoke of dead carcasses and refuse rises continually. I suggest that you set your heart to study this and in the meantime, be at peace. Our God--your God--is a being of justice not injustice. Would any man that is not insane consign another to eternal torture? Of course not. How then could a loving and just God do that? The popular doctrine of hell and eternal torture is a doctrine of devils designed to drive men from God. Would it not be torture enough to be permanently separated from God? Jesus spoke of Hell more than anything else. He hated how Satan caused men to turn away from Him. The Parable of the Rich Man gives us a glimpse. Strangely, the rich man called on Abraham to send someone down to cool the tip of his tongue with water. The rich man never even asked to get out of Hell, but demanded someone do his bidding in Hell. Yet, even then, God did not harbor anger toward the rich man; God never said, "Now you'll pay you wicked, evil sinner." No, He called him "son," with all the heartbreaking sadness a father feels when his son chooses to go his own way, and perish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6DaysiseneG Posted December 17, 2019 Group: Members Followers: 4 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 43 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/07/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said: I'm slightly confused about your post? You do mean Hell as in Hades; two compartments in the Earth separated by a great divide, one side being the torment side where the 'rich man' was sent; and the other compartment {paradise - Abraham's bosom] where Lazarus was? Yes the bossom but he never asked admittance into heaven for when they separated. Ppl in hell are there because they refuse to believe and follow God and hate him even. They will continue to reject thus staying in hell. God didn't even spare his own son. Eternal means eternal otherwise what would that mean for those in heaven etc? So you believe ppl from hell can go to heaven based on some variable then the same could be true of those in heaven- by some variable they could in theory ear a spot in hell . God tells us we die once then the judgment. No second chance not that I believe anyone in hell would want to stop rejection Jesus . Sure reject the suffering but not believe or love God even though God loves all . Last reply tc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted December 17, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.54 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted December 17, 2019 19 minutes ago, Margo1945 said: see my post in "I'm struggling to accept Hell" on page 17 .. I can't keep repeating what I believe over and over again .. I know what grace is .. and I know what freely chosen ongoing willful sinning is and the latter will only be forgiven when the one doing it repents aka (also known as) turns "back" to God and "back" to doing God's Will .. see my post cited Ok--so you do know that you died and were severed from the First Adam and are now a member of the Second Adam? And what this implies? Moving on then....do you believe that the New Man can continue in a life of sin? Please stick with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted December 17, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.54 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Coliseum said: Would it not be torture enough to be permanently separated from God? Jesus spoke of Hell more than anything else. He hated how Satan caused men to turn away from Him. The Parable of the Rich Man gives us a glimpse. Strangely, the rich man called on Abraham to send someone down to cool the tip of his tongue with water. The rich man never even asked to get out of Hell, but demanded someone do his bidding in Hell. Yet, even then, God did not harbor anger toward the rich man; God never said, "Now you'll pay you wicked, evil sinner." No, He called him "son," with all the heartbreaking sadness a father feels when his son chooses to go his own way, and perish. I am not sure I understand the points you are making. Did you read my post just prior to yours above? I have noticed that nobody has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coliseum Posted December 17, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 1,123 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 2,055 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/07/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 17, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Alive said: I am not sure I understand the points you are making. Did you read my post just prior to yours above? I have noticed that nobody has. I simply responded to what I read quoted below. My response tries to take into account what I perceived you to say; namely, that our understanding, and God's understanding, should not differ according to what we consider true, rather than what I read God considers true. Maybe people did read what you wrote but are unclear on what you meant. Perhaps more clearly stating it might help. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Many Christians don't believe the Bible teaches that hell is a place of eternal torture. I am one of these. There is no way that the God I have come to know would torture for eternity a being who did not ask to be born into a sinful race. There is eternal Life 'In Christ' and there is a final 'death'. A perishing. Hell or Gehenna was very well understood as a trash heap outside the gates of Jerusalem where the smoke of dead carcasses and refuse rises continually. I suggest that you set your heart to study this and in the meantime, be at peace. Our God--your God--is a being of justice not injustice. Would any man that is not insane consign another to eternal torture? Of course not. How then could a loving and just God do that? The popular doctrine of hell and eternal torture is a doctrine of devils designed to drive men from God." Edited December 17, 2019 by Coliseum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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