Good for Wal-markt!!!

[seraph]

I don't understand why those who oppose abortion oppose the day-after pill.  I oppose abortion but I also realize that it can take as long as twelve hours for the sperm to reach the egg; a perfect time to take such a drug. (snip)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(snip)unfortunately people "do it" on the spur of the moment sometimes and don't plan appropriately; married people as well as teenagers, then they panic afterward.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(snip)

Wrong again SJ.  I oppose Roe vs Wade; I'm against abortion on demand and I do support the use of the day after pill because overall it does prevent pregnancy and abortion.  Some people argue against the birth control pill for the same reasons they argue against the day after pill which you stated: It does abort implanted eggs. While it doesn't abort in every case, it holds the capability to abort just in case the egg has been fertilized.    Are you against birth control pills too SJ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(snip)

Morning-after pill

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

(snip)

The article is quite long but here's the paragraph on the controversy:

Controversy in relation to abortion

It is likely that this drug sometimes functions as an abortifacient by preventing implantation of a fertilized egg in the uterus. Although many groups (including the US FDA, NIH, and the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists) now define pregnancy as beginning with implantation, many medical professionals and embryology texts retain the traditional definition and consider pregnancy to begin at fertilization. Recent medical studies in animals (the rat and the monkey) were inclonclusive as to how often or whether the morning-after pill prevents implantation; however, this mechanism of action cannot be ruled out in all cases, and it has been impossible to carry out this kind of study in humans. Therefore, women who have moral reasons to avoid taking an abortifacient may wish to avoid use of this drug.

(snip)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(snip)

I think the morning after pill prevents pregnancy.  The sperm and the egg sometimes take up to twelve hours to meet; (snip)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Charlie, I have a question... iyo, because the morning after pill sometimes prevents pregnancy it doesn't matter that it sometimes causes abortions?

[ted]

That upsets abortion advocates like Ted Miller of NARAL.

"For many rural women, Wal-Mart is their only pharmacy," Miller says. "That's what makes Wal-Mart's refusal to carry emergency contraception so disconcerting."

NARAL and Planned Parenthood are targeting Wal-Mart and other pharmacy chains with a lobbying campaign seeking to get them to stock the drugs and to post a sign saying all legal prescriptions will be honored.

This is the part that gets me the most!

Becuase this Ted Millar idiot has an opposing view, he's going to protest and try to force Wal-Mart to carry it!

Unbelievable!

And what's up with his terming it an "emergency contraception", anyway?

It's people like this that make it possible for our 13 year old daughters to get abortions without parental notification. Yet, these same 13 year olds can land you in jail if they miss too much school, in some areas of the country.

It just don't add up.

t.

[Guest charlie]

Biologically speaking the smallest unit of "life" is a single cell; therefore, an egg alone or sperm alone is also "life". 

Charkie - biologically speaking, for a single cell to be considered "life", that single cell in and of itself needs to be self-replicating.

An unfertilized egg is not self-replicating.

A sperm by itself is not self-replicating.

A fertilized egg (egg joined by sperm cell) is self-replicating, and is therefore life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was taught in biology that the smallest unit of life is a single cell; human beings are multicellular. The encyclopedia explains it pretty well.

Cell (biology)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

The cell is the structural and functional unit of all living organisms, sometimes called the "building blocks of life." Some organisms, such as bacteria, are unicellular, consisting of a single cell. Other organisms, such as humans, are multicellular, (humans have an estimated 100,000 billion = 1014 cells). The cell theory, first developed in the 19th century, states that all organisms are composed of one or more cells; all cells come from preexisting cells; all vital functions of an organism occur within cells and that cells contain the hereditary information necessary for regulating cell functions and for transmitting information to the next generation of cells.

The word cell comes from the Latin cella, a small room. The name was chosen by Robert Hooke because of the likeness he saw between cork cells and small rooms.

That encyclopedia link goes into a lot more detail; too much to put it all here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_%28biology%29

Edited July 3, 2005 by charlie

[Guest charlie]

Charlie, I have a question... iyo, because the morning after pill sometimes prevents pregnancy it doesn't matter that it sometimes causes abortions?

It's not that it doesn't matter; it's that birth control pills can, on rare occasions, do the same thing. Most drugs including perscription drugs can sometimes cause death. Look at viagra; it can cause death and blindness sometimes; I don't hear any outrage about that one.

I think both pills should be available for preventing pregnancy; that's what both do. Refer back to the encyclopedia link on the morning after pill.

This is the part that gets me the most!

Becuase this Ted Millar idiot has an opposing view, he's going to protest and try to force Wal-Mart to carry it!

Unbelievable!

Some people say the same thing about abstince only school based sex education. Somebody is always trying to force their view, their way, on somone else it seems.

I've only known two 13 year olds that gave birth; one was a minister's daughter and she had another out-of-wedlock birth at age 16.

Edited July 3, 2005 by charlie

[Work in Progress]

Thanks for your thoughts, Charlie. While I may not agree with most of them, you do present a good arguement that has its valid points.

As for my sympathies for a woman who, for whatever reason, finds herself with an unwanted pregancy - please do not equate my sympathy with believing that she is then justified in getting an abortion. In abortion, I believe the end never justifies the means.

Thanks for the link to the other post - I hadn't seen it and Dad Ernie's points are very good. Not sure if I'm in agreement, but very good nonetheless.

Seraph, in his question, makes a good point I think. "Sometimes" is not acceptable. At least, not in my book.

I do think your argument that all drugs have the possibility of death is a major stretch and lends no credibility to your argument. (JMO)

Thanks again for your points. Agree or not, it does show me where you are coming from.

[nebula]

I was taught in biology that the smallest unit of life is a single cell; human beings are multicellular.  The encyclopedia explains it pretty well. 

Cell (biology)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

The definition of "Life" from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life

In biology, an entity has traditionally been considered to be alive if it exhibits all the following phenomena at least once during its existence:

1. Growth

2. Metabolism, consuming, transforming and storing energy/mass; growing by absorbing and reorganizing mass; excreting waste

3. Motion, either moving itself, or having internal motion

4. Reproduction, the ability to create entities that are similar to itself

5. Response to stimuli - the ability to measure properties of its surrounding environment, and act upon certain conditions.

Neither the egg alone nor the sperm alone can fulfill these criteria.

[Guest charlie]

You are welcome WIP.

I understand that you are not condoning abortion; neither do I. I do think that if a woman has a brutish husband she should be able to discretely get the morning after pill while she's at wal-mart doing the family shopping the "day after", without her husband's knowlege or consent....to prevent a pregnancy. Women in these types of situations usually don't have a lot of freedom of movement and Wal-Mart might be one of those rare opportunities that she is "allowed" out of the house. I hate to think of such awful things but I think spousal abuse and intimidation is more common than people think. That said, once pregnancy occurs I do not think someone should ever abort a baby. Even in the worst of circumstances babies are wonderful and a blessing from God. Look at all the times an unwanted child is so loved once it arrives. If truth be known 99% of us were unplanned.

Nebula, your link also had this to say:

Biologists who are content to focus on terrestrial organisms often note some additional signs of a "living organism", including these:

1. Living organisms contain molecular components such as: carbohydrates, lipids, nucleic acids, and proteins.

2. Living organisms require both energy and matter in order to continue living.

3. Living organisms are composed of at least one cell.

4. Living organisms maintain homeostasis.

5. Species of living organisms will evolve.

As was stated in the other post, human beings are multi-cellular.

Lots of interesting things at your link too; facinating topic.

What I find so awsome is that despite all the wonderful things scientists are able to do with very few cells or even one cell, they cannot create even one single cell from nothing. That's right, they ALWAYS have to begin with at least one already existing cell from some living organism. Only God can create a single living cell of any kind from absolutely nothing.

If you get a chance Nebula read those two links I gave you for the other thread. Even the humanly fertilized eggs must be implanted into a woman's womb in order to develop into a human being (that must be the stimuli). Left in petrie dish these fertilized eggs only become tissue.

Edited July 4, 2005 by charlie

[ayin jade]

The morning-after pill should not be confused with other abortifacient pills, such as mifepristone (aka RU-486) or methotrexate, which always cause an abortion after implantation has occurred. The morning-after pill can prevent a pregnancy, or it can end one at its earliest stage. It can prevent pregnancy by preventing ovulation. However if ovulation occurs, it can function as an abortifacient to end a pregnancy by preventing implantation of the embryo.

I understand that you are not condoning abortion; neither do I. I do think that if a woman has a brutish husband she should be able to discretely get the morning after pill while she's at wal-mart doing the family shopping the "day after", without her husband's knowlege or consent....to prevent a pregnancy. 

Abortafacient: anything that triggers abortion of fertilized eggs, or fetuses.

Actually Charlie, you are condoning abortion.

[apothanein kerdos]

*Edited*

Though extremely logical and good points, it wasn't edifying. So I'll leave the debate with this:

Charlie, your own source says that it can be abortive. There are certain pills that simply cannot be abortive and are much safer to go with.

Either way, I am not a big supporter of the pill and alternatively support other forms of contraceptives.

[ted]

Ok, time to cool the jets in this thread.

t.