Prophecy of Jesus’ Return

[Diaste]

16 hours ago, charlesj said:

Hello CaptWalker:

Israel did become a nation in 1948.  It is like any other nation.  Israel does not have an Aaronic priesthood as it did before Jesus destroyed the nation of Israel in A.D. 70.  The only "priesthood" we have today is our High Priest Jesus Christ. 

When Christ destroyed the nation, its temple, many unbelieving Jews (according to Josephus, 1,100,000 were killed) and many taken captive) and their genealogy records it was all finished.  There is not a Jew today that can tell you from what tribe they are from. (Except for Jesus from the tribe of Judah).

God (Jesus) destroyed the Jewish system and The Law of Moses.  Christ, at the cross, brought in the "kingdom of God" and it was established in A.D. 70.  Since that time we have been under the New Covenant and the Laws of Christ.  During A.D. 30 to A.D. 70 was a "transitional period."  During the transitional period Jesus and His disciples kept the 613 commandments of the Law of Moses. 

It was during this transition period that the apostles wrote the books of our New Testament.  All the apostles heard Christ speak of "...coming in clouds...sound of a trumpet" (Matt 24:30-31)   This "coming" was His "paraousia," that is, His presence. 

All throughout the New Testament the Hebrew writer of Book of Hebrews and the apostles had what Jesus said about His coming in clouds with a loud trumpet and throughout their writings they used the terms "the last days, the last day, the last hour."  We today read their writings and when we see "we, us, our, etc." we apply it to our time 2100 years later when ALL applied to their time period. For example: we apply 1 Thes 4:16-18 to us today: "...For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.   Wherefore comfort one another with these words."   No, the apostle Paul is speaking to the church in Thessalonians.  He is telling them (as in Matthew 24:30-31) that Christ is coming back with a shout of the trumpet... Those "in who have died in Christ" will rise and we (apostles and all the believing Jews at that time) will be caught up. 

For us living today, there will NOT EVER be a return of Christ nor a judgement.  For you and me (and all believers) we will live out our lives serving Him until we die.  At death our bodies will return to the earth and go back to dust.  The real you, your spirit, will immediately, at your bodies death, go back to the Lord.  To make an analogy, take a pecan.  Most of us love pecans, but we don't eat the shell.  We break open the pecan and enjoy the insides.  It is the same with our bodies.  When we die, the shell, goes back to dust. The insides, our spirit, goes back to the Lord.  PRAISE HIS NAME!!  

Forty nine years ago, I believed just like you.  I encourage everyone to visit this site: https://www.preterist.org/

So what is the Preterist agenda? Why does preterism exist? From whence doth core tenets of preterism arise?

[Justin Adams]

7 minutes ago, Diaste said:

So what is the Preterist agenda? Why does preterism exist? From whence doth core tenets of preterism arise?

A sad misrepresentation of apocalyptic stuff. A failure to apply literal and pictorial correctly.  A modern approach that ignores the CONTEXT of most of the cosmic stuff. It is mainly COSMIC, yet we superimpose modern technocratic understanding not seeing the really SUPERNATURAL that is at the heart of Revelation, Daniel, Ezekiel and much of the old prophets. They pain a picture that few can see because the supernatural has been strip-mined out of the church an its reformed scriptures. 

Supernatural is MORE REAL than the natural because it INCLUDES the natural and extends it far beyond out imaginations - thus the apocalyptic representations are but a shadow of the UNSEEN REAL.

[Diaste]

On 12/22/2019 at 12:56 PM, helonomer said:

(Everything will be resolved by this Christmas (that includes assessment of wives for Moses on board spacecraft .............. assessment of first strike of old testament countries populations in belt from africa/isreal/middle east/india .................. by not reacting its call murder, its inevitable what is necessary)

Well? Did it get resolved? Any physical proof of resolution?

Is it one of those 'it happened in the spirit' fulfillments?

[Diaste]

6 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

A sad misrepresentation of apocalyptic stuff. A failure to apply literal and pictorial correctly.  A modern approach that ignores the CONTEXT of most of the cosmic stuff. It is mainly COSMIC, yet we superimpose modern technocratic understanding not seeing the really SUPERNATURAL that is at the heart of Revelation, Daniel, Ezekiel and much of the old prophets. They pain a picture that few can see because the supernatural has been strip-mined out of the church an its reformed scriptures. 

Supernatural is MORE REAL than the natural because it INCLUDES the natural and extends it far beyond out imaginations - thus the apocalyptic representations are but a shadow of the UNSEEN REAL.

Yeah, preterism is untenable. So much is associated with eschatology that only the immortal can oversee the plan to the end, in supernatural power, and make it all come to pass.

[BeauJangles]

On 12/22/2019 at 9:44 AM, helonomer said:

Everything will be Resolved 12/22/2019 to 12/25/2019 Christmas (ON PLANET JUPITER)

I just woke up at 4:00 am and it's now 4:20 - 12/26/2019. Sooo, has everything been resolved yet, or does this mean the date been postponed or pushed ahead towards yet another future setting?  

[charlesj]

Hello BeauJangles:

I think I must be "out of the loop" on this conversation. What do you mean "...has everything been resolved yet, or does this mean the date been postponed....etc" 

I am still drinking my coffee and did not get up as early as you.  My wife and I normally are up by 6 a.m. and start drinking our coffee.  Hope you had some?  

I like your profile. Like you, I love the Lord with all my heart.  My goal in life is to make disciples. 

I retired from IBM in 2005.  I was in IT and worked on computers, networks and satellite systems.  I traveled all over San Antonio, Austin and south Texas on my service calls.  I had a lot of "windshield time" in which I was able to meet a lot of people and share  the gospel. 

Over the years the Lord has used me as a tool to lead many to Him. For the last 15 years my wife and I are "hosts" at Mustang Island State Park.  We stay five months at the park in our 5th wheel RV.  The state requires me to work 24 hours a week and I stay free and they provide us with water, electricity & sewer hookup for our RV.  All these years I have worked the entrance gate and collected entrance fees.  So, we have a lot of time to fish etc.  I meet many people coming into the park and am able to share the gospel with them.  Many come from other countries such as Germany, Turkey, Canada, etc. etc.  I've been able to share the gospel with some and baptize them in the surf of the Gulf of Mexico waters.  I've even baptized some in swimming pools, church baptisteries and one in a bathtub. 

May the Lord bless us as we serve Him,

Charles

[CaptWalker]

Well if good works did validate ones' own personal views then i would say you might be 110% CORRECT...but thank GOD that is not true or else simple laymen like me may not ever be taken seriously!  But really, i don't think most people here or anywhere are going to use that either for or against you...well it may in fact put many at ease who do hold to the same views as yourself, be that as it may? 

But as far as what that "ol preacher" said about the Bible being other peoples' mail...not sure exactly what he meant but it doesn't sound too flattering as far as it being the "inspired" Word of God?? I just never saw it as being the writers own "personal" interpretations all the way through, since they were even careful enough to use the italics for those words they were not sure about. And i was under the impression that the Holy Spirit was giving this inspiration all the way through, or you have to agree at least in the New Testament? But I guess if you want to call the greatest work ever written just someone's "mail" then to each his own i suppose...but that's just my own layman's opinion of course. 

But i was also curious just what the Preterist view was on the antichrist as far as whether he is still yet to arrive? And what exactly do they/you believe the "mark of the beast" will be...just still confused about how it all ties in and is supposed to end up making sense, which is why i stated in my first post that these are subjects i do not like to discuss since we basically just end up back where we started. 

Edited December 26, 2019 by CaptWalker

[Justin Adams]

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

Yeah, preterism is untenable. So much is associated with eschatology that only the immortal can oversee the plan to the end, in supernatural power, and make it all come to pass.

If one ignores the ancient Israeli understanding of spiritual things and their view of Ez and the repurposing of it in Daniel and then later revelation, you cannot possibly see the cosmic importance of it all. The new testament guys understood it well and dropped hints all over the place about it all. The expected the reader to be conversant with ancient myth and how all down thru the scriptures they were drawing on the old Mesopotamian ideas that seeped in the writings of the prophets. David even quoted the Baal Cycle and just changed the Deity to Yahweh. It was what they knew and the way their ideas were formed. They were COMMUNICATING without drawing pictures... Nevertheless their non technical visions, were expressive to their context.

Edited December 26, 2019 by Justin Adams

[charlesj]

4 hours ago, CaptWalker said:

Well if good works did validate ones' own personal views then i would say you might be 110% CORRECT...but thank GOD that is not true or else simple laymen like me may not ever be taken seriously!  But really, i don't think most people here or anywhere are going to use that either for or against you...well it may in fact put many at ease who do hold to the same views as yourself, be that as it may? 

But as far as what that "ol preacher" said about the Bible being other peoples' mail...not sure exactly what he meant but it doesn't sound too flattering as far as it being the "inspired" Word of God?? I just never saw it as being the writers own "personal" interpretations all the way through, since they were even careful enough to use the italics for those words they were not sure about. And i was under the impression that the Holy Spirit was giving this inspiration all the way through, or you have to agree at least in the New Testament? But I guess if you want to call the greatest work ever written just someone's "mail" then to each his own i suppose...but that's just my own layman's opinion of course. 

But i was also curious just what the Preterist view was on the antichrist as far as whether he is still yet to arrive? And what exactly do they/you believe the "mark of the beast" will be...just still confused about how it all ties in and is supposed to end up making sense, which is why i stated in my first post that these are subjects i do not like to discuss since we basically just end up back where we started. 

Thanks for your responses.  I want to break down with “answers” to some of the things you said.  I think all your responses were good and logical.  

First: “But as far as what that "ol preacher" said about the Bible being other peoples' mail...not sure exactly what he meant but it doesn't sound too flattering as far as it being the "inspired" Word of God??”

 CaptWalker:

W.L. Wharton, 94 years old deceased now, said this about when you are reading or studying the bible to just remember “you are reading someone else’s mail.”  W.L. meant, for example, when you are reading or studying, and the pronouns “you, we, us, etc.” are used then most likely it is speaking of the writer or his environment at that time.   

A good example of "someone else's mail" you see when reading Acts 3:2-12 “a certain man who had been lame from his mother's womb was being carried along, whom they used to set down every day at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, in order to beg alms of those who were entering the temple. 3 And when he saw Peter and John about to go into the temple, he began asking to receive alms. 4 And Peter, along with John, fixed his gaze upon him and said, "Look at us!" 5 And he began to give them his attention, expecting to receive something from them. 6 But Peter said, "I do not possess silver and gold, but what I do have I give to you: In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene-- walk!" 7 And seizing him by the right hand, he raised him up; and immediately his feet and his ankles were strengthened. 8 And with a leap, he stood upright and began to walk; and he entered the temple with them, walking and leaping and praising God. 9 And all the people saw him walking and praising God; 10 and they were taking note of him as being the one who used to sit at the Beautiful Gate of the temple to beg alms, and they were filled with wonder and amazement at what had happened to him. 11 And while he was clinging to Peter and John, all the people ran together to them at the so-called portico of Solomon, full of amazement. 12 But when Peter saw this, he replied to the people, "Men of Israel, why do you marvel at this, or why do you gaze at us, as if by our own power or piety we had made him walk?

 Take a look at the “context” of Acts 3:2-12.  Notice who is in this context … Peter and John, a lame man with the pronoun used “he.” (verse 3). Verse 8, the lame man (he) went into the temple with “them” (Peter & John) praising God. Verse 9 “people” (Jews) saw him (lame man).  Verse 12 “why do you gaze at US (Peter & John).

 

Do you see  what W.L. meant here in Acts 3 “you are reading someone else’s mail.” ??

 

Yes, we use the Bible.  We learn many things from the bible which is written by the Holy Spirit.  We learn how to be saved, we learn how to worship God.  From the Day of Pentecost, Acts 2, First Day of the Week, Sunday,  we learn that for the first 7 years A.D. 30 to A.D. 37 there were only Jews in the Church, Jewish Christians.  Acts 10, 11, around A.D. 37 we see the first Gentiles being converted Cornelius, his family and friends.  

Gentile Christians were at one time “far off,” but now have been added as a branch to the Olive Tree.  (Some translations say "afar off.")

 

Eph 2:15-19 “…Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.” ESV

 "Knowledge gained and not shared is Knowledge Stolen."  Minister, Mark Davis, 7/18/07

 

[iamlamad]

On 12/25/2019 at 10:22 PM, charlesj said:

Hello CaptWalker:

I use the KJV and many other translations.  I do know a lot of the KJV weaknesses.  The king of England, King James, wanted an English translation of the bible and he gave his translators 15 rules to go by when translating.  One of the rules that stuck out to me was the 3rd rule that he told his translators "when you get to the Greek word "ekklesia" I want it translated with the English word "church." 

Since the 1600's most English bibles have the English word "church" instead of "congregation or assembly."  If you get a chance, read "In the Beginning: The Story of the King James Bible and How it Changed a Nation, a Language, and a Culture" by Alister McGrath.  You will be surprised at how many English words the KJV bible has introduced to the world audience. 

I don't guess it makes much difference when you read "church" as long as you remember it is an "assembly of people" and not a building.  I use the  word church, but I do know the difference.  I also imagine most Christians know the difference.  

Looking at the KJV I think one of the biggest translation errors (or, could have been better) is Matthew 24:3 where the KJV in Matt 24:3 says: "...And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? (aionos -age)  

The disciples had gathered from the Saviors language that this catastrophe was imminent; and their anxiety was to know the time and the tokens of its arrival. Notice in verse 3, above in the Greek, that the Greek word is NOT “κόσμον” (kosmon or kosmos, world), but “αἰῶνος” (aionos, age).

Christ's "parousia" took place in Matthew 24:30 (A.D. 70) "coming in clouds" where His "presence" (his second coming).  Christ may have been in heaven at this time, but He is omnipresent.  Christ came at the END OF THE AGE of the Law of Moses, the end of the Old Covenant that God made with the Jewish Nation. That age ended in A.D. 70 and a new age started, the New Covenant age under the Laws of Christ and not the Laws of Moses.  

Messiah spoke of two ages.  The old covenant age and the new age to come, that is, the New Covenant age. 

            Matt 12:32      “Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age (the age Jesus lived in) or in the age to come."  I used Matt 12:32 to show the two ages Christ spoke of.  The age of Jesus and the age to come, the New Testament age. 

In 1 Cor 10:11 Paul says the ends of the age have come, “Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.” (1Cor10,11)  Here Paul regarded himself and his readers as living near the conclusion of an aeon, or age.

In the epistle to the Hebrews, we find this remarkable expression, “Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. (Heb 9:26)  (Again, same Greek phrase as Matt 24, “συντελείᾳ τῶν αἰώνων” and is speaking of the end of  the Old Covenant age.) 

Here the writer of Hebrews clearly shows that he regarded the incarnation of Christ as taking place near the end of the aeon, or dispensational period. 

To suppose that he meant that it was close upon the end of the world, or the destruction of the material globe, would be to make him write false history as well as bad grammar.   

The aeon of Matthew 24:3 is speaking was about to close in a great catastrophe; and a catastrophe is not a protracted process, but a definitive and culminating act. I believe, therefore  that the end of the age (συντελείᾳ τῶν αἰώνων) refers solely to the approaching termination of the Jewish age or dispensation, NOT THE END OF THE WORLD AS MOST (denominations) TEACH. 

An ol’ preacher told me one time, “when you read the bible, remember, you are reading someone else’s mail.”   W.L. Wharton (1914-2002)

I have remembered what W.L. said for many years. It’s funny (AND SAD)  how a lot of people take the Bible as if it was written personally to them.  They see the pronouns, you, us, we etc. etc and apply it to themselves when the apostles of Christ are speaking of themselves.   For example: in the NAS bible, Acts 1:4 the Holy Spirit uses the word "them"... read the account and see who is "them."  Verse 6 uses "they"... who is this?  Verse 8 uses the term "you"... who is this?  Do you get my point?  If you follow "in context' you will see that these "them, us, you, etc" are the apostles.  Many TODAY apply things in the bible to our time and ourselves when in context it is not speaking of someone 2100 years later. 

When I was in bible college hermeneutics class a professor use to scream out CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT!  My wish for all is to read "context, context, context" even if you have to read ten chapters behind or ahead.  Who is the author, who is he speaking to, what time period, and why.  Context, Context, Contest! 

Today we have serious problems in the church world.  Many take (from the pulpit or teaching) and believe all they have heard.  I have been to three bible colleges and normally sat in the back and watched the students in bible class take notes.  These notes are used later by the student(s) to teach others.  The problem is they have not, like the Bereans, checked with the Word of God to see if it is true or not.  THIS IS A SHAME!!  So, today we have over 33,000 denominations almost each preaching/teaching something different. 

There are two Greek words used when one thinks of reading a text.  One of the Greek words is “eisegesis” when means to read one’s own interpretation INTO a given text.  A lot of times we “hear” a teaching from someone, like a minister, and we take his words for it and we “read into the text” what we’ve heard from the minister or teacher.  We EISEGESIS (read into) the text instead of EXEGETE it. 

To exegete a text means to “draw the meaning out of.”   When we read the Bible, we must not fall into the trap of eisegesis.  We must exegete the context of the message to what it meant when the author penned it. Church leaders are very guilty of this.  We (me) must be on the guard not to eisegesis a text, but exegete it. 

May the Lord bless US as we serve Him,

Charles

cjemeyson@satx.rr.com

I have to say this for the sake of the readers, I believe Jesus is coming again second time FOR His saints (the event we call the rapture) and then again 7 years later WITH His saints as shown in Rev. 19. In other words, in my opinion, your post is myth.  Notice, it is only my opinion. 

WHY do I believe these things? It's pretty simple: I cannot find in history where any of the vials were poured out, or any of the trumpets sounded. neither can I find where the 6th seal has taken place. I trust God's ability to forecast the future so explicitly that it cannot be missed - just as He did with many of the prophecies concerning Jesus' first coming.