Prophecy of Jesus’ Return

[R. Hartono]

On 12/21/2019 at 1:38 PM, R. Hartono said:

Acts 1:7 He replied, “The Father alone has the authority to set those dates and times, and they are not for you to know.
 

It seems our Father in heaven does not share his authority in this matter, or doesn't He ?

[CaptWalker]

Well I can kind of see why Megan thinks Sept. 30th would be significant, since at least one Bible teacher I've heard believes that's really the true date of Christ's birth, and that Christmas was only the conception. Well actually he says the 29th, but I'm not going to be that nitpicky about it. Actually I would think the Fall Equinox on the 21st would make more sense? But either way, I have always wondered just what calendar we are on, especially since 1948 when Israel became a new nation? And if maybe God is actually going by the old 360 days, like the 1,260 days, which would actually mean we would have lost an entire year(give or take) by now, or gained one depending on how you look at it? But am only speculating and also don't forget about the 6-day war in June 1967, which was also a major benchmark of sorts that a lot of people tend to overlook.

Edited December 25, 2019 by CaptWalker

[charlesj]

1 hour ago, CaptWalker said:

Well I can kind of see why Megan thinks Sept. 30th would be significant, since at least one Bible teacher I've heard believes that's really the true date of Christ's birth, and that Christmas was only the conception. Well actually he says the 29th, but I'm not going to be that nitpicky about it. Actually I would think the Fall Equinox on the 21st would make more sense? But either way, I have always wondered just what calendar we are on, especially since 1948 when Israel became a new nation? And if maybe God is actually going by the old 360 days, like the 1,260 days, which would actually mean we would have lost an entire year(give or take) by now, or gained one depending on how you look at it? But am only speculating and also don't forget about the 6-day war in June 1967, which was also a major benchmark of sorts that a lot of people tend to overlook.

Hello CaptWalker:

Israel did become a nation in 1948.  It is like any other nation.  Israel does not have an Aaronic priesthood as it did before Jesus destroyed the nation of Israel in A.D. 70.  The only "priesthood" we have today is our High Priest Jesus Christ. 

When Christ destroyed the nation, its temple, many unbelieving Jews (according to Josephus, 1,100,000 were killed) and many taken captive) and their genealogy records it was all finished.  There is not a Jew today that can tell you from what tribe they are from. (Except for Jesus from the tribe of Judah).

God (Jesus) destroyed the Jewish system and The Law of Moses.  Christ, at the cross, brought in the "kingdom of God" and it was established in A.D. 70.  Since that time we have been under the New Covenant and the Laws of Christ.  During A.D. 30 to A.D. 70 was a "transitional period."  During the transitional period Jesus and His disciples kept the 613 commandments of the Law of Moses. 

It was during this transition period that the apostles wrote the books of our New Testament.  All the apostles heard Christ speak of "...coming in clouds...sound of a trumpet" (Matt 24:30-31)   This "coming" was His "paraousia," that is, His presence. 

All throughout the New Testament the Hebrew writer of Book of Hebrews and the apostles had what Jesus said about His coming in clouds with a loud trumpet and throughout their writings they used the terms "the last days, the last day, the last hour."  We today read their writings and when we see "we, us, our, etc." we apply it to our time 2100 years later when ALL applied to their time period. For example: we apply 1 Thes 4:16-18 to us today: "...For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.   Wherefore comfort one another with these words."   No, the apostle Paul is speaking to the church in Thessalonians.  He is telling them (as in Matthew 24:30-31) that Christ is coming back with a shout of the trumpet... Those "in who have died in Christ" will rise and we (apostles and all the believing Jews at that time) will be caught up. 

For us living today, there will NOT EVER be a return of Christ nor a judgement.  For you and me (and all believers) we will live out our lives serving Him until we die.  At death our bodies will return to the earth and go back to dust.  The real you, your spirit, will immediately, at your bodies death, go back to the Lord.  To make an analogy, take a pecan.  Most of us love pecans, but we don't eat the shell.  We break open the pecan and enjoy the insides.  It is the same with our bodies.  When we die, the shell, goes back to dust. The insides, our spirit, goes back to the Lord.  PRAISE HIS NAME!!  

Forty nine years ago, I believed just like you.  I encourage everyone to visit this site: https://www.preterist.org/

 

 

 

[CaptWalker]

And i was born 49 years ago(1970) so at least we have something in common! As far as Preterism goes, there are some subjects that i just don't bother discussing. But one thing i've always been confused about is when Jesus said "not one stone will be left upon another" referring to temple destruction in 70AD, but i've heard that many stones were still left standing...of course no one was there so how can you prove it one way or another?

[charlesj]

1 hour ago, CaptWalker said:

And i was born 49 years ago(1970) so at least we have something in common! As far as Preterism goes, there are some subjects that i just don't bother discussing. But one thing i've always been confused about is when Jesus said "not one stone will be left upon another" referring to temple destruction in 70AD, but i've heard that many stones were still left standing...of course no one was there so how can you prove it one way or another?

CaptWalker:

Here are some verses from Matthew 24 quoted from "Young's Literal Translation."  (YLT)

And having gone forth, Jesus departed from the temple, and his disciples came near to show him the buildings of the temple, and Jesus said to them, ‘Do ye not see all these? verily I say to you, There may not be left here a stone upon a stone, that shall not be thrown down.’ And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, ‘Tell us, when shall these be? and what is the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?’

Notice the disciples also asked Him "what is the sign of thy PRESENCE... "  This "presence" is from the Greek word "parousia."  When Christ came back the second time in Matt 24 it was His "parousia."  Many look for a "second coming" of Christ, but if you look throughout the n.t. you will find  "parousia" but not a third or fourth coming.  Parousia is mentioned 24 times in the N.T. (Matt 24.3, 27, 37, 39;  1 cor 15.23; 16:17: 2cor 7.6,7; 10.10; Phil 1.26; 2:121; Thess  2:19; 3:13; 4:15;5:23; 2 Thess 2.1, 8, 9; James 5.7, 8; 2Peter 1.16; 3:4, 12; 1 John 2:28)  Most of these verses translate parousia as "coming."  Take a look at YLT and you will see he translates this Greek word as "presence" most of the time. 

Jesus goes on throughout this chapter 24 and finishes speaking of the "end of the age."  He speaks of the full "end of the age" not "end of time."  That age ended in A.D. 70 with the nation of Israel gone.  Today, God deals with "individuals" and not as He did with His Old Covenant Jews.  

My son David is 51 and my other son, Paul is 46.  I raised two sons your age.  I am thankful that both serve the Lord. 

I am 79 years old, married to Crystal for 56 years... Crystal is a "gift to me from the Lord." 

I spent 6 years as a Naval Spy with the Naval Security Group in Africa, all over Europe and the Mediterranean Sea. After the Navy I was a "recon" U.S. Marine.  I loved all of it. 

Your servant in the Messiah,

Charles
 

Edited December 25, 2019 by charlesj
added some things...

[frienduff thaylorde]

On ‎12‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 6:32 PM, ayin jade said:

 

Welcome to worthy.

Why did you choose those dates? What is the reason why you believe this? Please show support for this view. 

You been missed dear sister .     But are still prayed for by some .      

[charlesj]

Hello:

I am not sure what "dates" you are speaking of.  Sorry. 

Your servant in Messiah,

Charles Jemeyson

 

Edited December 26, 2019 by George
Remeoved Email address for Security reasons

[CaptWalker]

Well Charles that's a whole lot more than i have done with my own life, sadly to say, and regardless of what your own personal views are i at least respect you for your service! Speaking of which, there is actually one TV peacher/teacher/pastor who was also a former MARINE in Korea, and i learned a whole lot of what i know now from listening to him. And you and some others here may also be familiar with him, but will not mention his name here. But personally i do still trust that the KJV is very accurate as far as simple words are concerned. But I use the Revised Standard Version which says basically the same thing.  And I have also heard Young's translation in VERY good as well, but i was only wondering how he got "may not" from "SHALL not"?? But once again it's possible i may just be overlooking something, but either way we can still agree to disagree...

But as far as the Tribulation already having begun, i believe that would be based on the 70 year generation from 1948...but there are also 40 and 120 year generations in the Bible. I think the 70 weeks of Daniel is used in more ways that it was ever meant to be...but i also believe the fist half of the Tribulation will not include any of God's judgements and the antichrist isn't revealed until the midpoint.

Edited December 26, 2019 by CaptWalker

[charlesj]

1 hour ago, CaptWalker said:

Well Charles that's a whole lot more than i have done with my own life, sadly to say, and regardless of what your own personal views are i at least respect you for your service! Speaking of which, there is actually one TV peacher/teacher/pastor who was also a former MARINE in Korea, and i learned a whole lot of what i know now from listening to him. And you and some others here may also be familiar with him, but will not mention his name here. But personally i do still trust that the KJV is very accurate as far as simple words are concerned. But I use the Revised Standard Version which says basically the same thing.  And I have also heard Young's translation in VERY good as well, but i was only wondering how he got "may not" from "SHALL not"?? But again i have a feeling i may be "corrected" which is fine, and maybe again i'm overlooking something? But either way we can simply agree to disagree...

Hello CaptWalker:

I use the KJV and many other translations.  I do know a lot of the KJV weaknesses.  The king of England, King James, wanted an English translation of the bible and he gave his translators 15 rules to go by when translating.  One of the rules that stuck out to me was the 3rd rule that he told his translators "when you get to the Greek word "ekklesia" I want it translated with the English word "church." 

Since the 1600's most English bibles have the English word "church" instead of "congregation or assembly."  If you get a chance, read "In the Beginning: The Story of the King James Bible and How it Changed a Nation, a Language, and a Culture" by Alister McGrath.  You will be surprised at how many English words the KJV bible has introduced to the world audience. 

I don't guess it makes much difference when you read "church" as long as you remember it is an "assembly of people" and not a building.  I use the  word church, but I do know the difference.  I also imagine most Christians know the difference.  

Looking at the KJV I think one of the biggest translation errors (or, could have been better) is Matthew 24:3 where the KJV in Matt 24:3 says: "...And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? (aionos -age)  

The disciples had gathered from the Saviors language that this catastrophe was imminent; and their anxiety was to know the time and the tokens of its arrival. Notice in verse 3, above in the Greek, that the Greek word is NOT “κόσμον” (kosmon or kosmos, world), but “αἰῶνος” (aionos, age).

Christ's "parousia" took place in Matthew 24:30 (A.D. 70) "coming in clouds" where His "presence" (his second coming).  Christ may have been in heaven at this time, but He is omnipresent.  Christ came at the END OF THE AGE of the Law of Moses, the end of the Old Covenant that God made with the Jewish Nation. That age ended in A.D. 70 and a new age started, the New Covenant age under the Laws of Christ and not the Laws of Moses.  

Messiah spoke of two ages.  The old covenant age and the new age to come, that is, the New Covenant age. 

            Matt 12:32      “Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age (the age Jesus lived in) or in the age to come."  I used Matt 12:32 to show the two ages Christ spoke of.  The age of Jesus and the age to come, the New Testament age. 

In 1 Cor 10:11 Paul says the ends of the age have come, “Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.” (1Cor10,11)  Here Paul regarded himself and his readers as living near the conclusion of an aeon, or age.

In the epistle to the Hebrews, we find this remarkable expression, “Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. (Heb 9:26)  (Again, same Greek phrase as Matt 24, “συντελείᾳ τῶν αἰώνων” and is speaking of the end of  the Old Covenant age.) 

Here the writer of Hebrews clearly shows that he regarded the incarnation of Christ as taking place near the end of the aeon, or dispensational period. 

To suppose that he meant that it was close upon the end of the world, or the destruction of the material globe, would be to make him write false history as well as bad grammar.   

The aeon of Matthew 24:3 is speaking was about to close in a great catastrophe; and a catastrophe is not a protracted process, but a definitive and culminating act. I believe, therefore  that the end of the age (συντελείᾳ τῶν αἰώνων) refers solely to the approaching termination of the Jewish age or dispensation, NOT THE END OF THE WORLD AS MOST (denominations) TEACH. 

An ol’ preacher told me one time, “when you read the bible, remember, you are reading someone else’s mail.”   W.L. Wharton (1914-2002)

I have remembered what W.L. said for many years. It’s funny (AND SAD)  how a lot of people take the Bible as if it was written personally to them.  They see the pronouns, you, us, we etc. etc and apply it to themselves when the apostles of Christ are speaking of themselves.   For example: in the NAS bible, Acts 1:4 the Holy Spirit uses the word "them"... read the account and see who is "them."  Verse 6 uses "they"... who is this?  Verse 8 uses the term "you"... who is this?  Do you get my point?  If you follow "in context' you will see that these "them, us, you, etc" are the apostles.  Many TODAY apply things in the bible to our time and ourselves when in context it is not speaking of someone 2100 years later. 

When I was in bible college hermeneutics class a professor use to scream out CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT!  My wish for all is to read "context, context, context" even if you have to read ten chapters behind or ahead.  Who is the author, who is he speaking to, what time period, and why.  Context, Context, Contest! 

Today we have serious problems in the church world.  Many take (from the pulpit or teaching) and believe all they have heard.  I have been to three bible colleges and normally sat in the back and watched the students in bible class take notes.  These notes are used later by the student(s) to teach others.  The problem is they have not, like the Bereans, checked with the Word of God to see if it is true or not.  THIS IS A SHAME!!  So, today we have over 33,000 denominations almost each preaching/teaching something different. 

There are two Greek words used when one thinks of reading a text.  One of the Greek words is “eisegesis” when means to read one’s own interpretation INTO a given text.  A lot of times we “hear” a teaching from someone, like a minister, and we take his words for it and we “read into the text” what we’ve heard from the minister or teacher.  We EISEGESIS (read into) the text instead of EXEGETE it. 

To exegete a text means to “draw the meaning out of.”   When we read the Bible, we must not fall into the trap of eisegesis.  We must exegete the context of the message to what it meant when the author penned it. Church leaders are very guilty of this.  We (me) must be on the guard not to eisegesis a text, but exegete it. 

May the Lord bless US as we serve Him,

Charles

cjemeyson@satx.rr.com

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2019 by charlesj

[Diaste]

On 12/22/2019 at 5:46 AM, Last Daze said:

There are only 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who speak binary, and those who don't.

I'm definitely stealing this one.