Are the 10 Commandments called "the moral law"?

[JustPassingThru]

14 minutes ago, Resurrection Priest said:

I do not understand the death of Jesus to be a "payment" to God,

First off, you misunderstand "what" Jesus was, ...the "ultimate" sacrifice to God, ...all of the OT sacrifices point us to, and make reference to, ...Jesus, ...the Lamb of God.

Second, Jesus "is" God john 1:1, ...He didn't have any "debt" to pay to God because God is sinless.

Third, all men have sinned and the "fundamental" teachings of the "sacrifices" are, ...man was offering a sacrifice only to "cover" his sin (rather than die immediately), ...not "pay" for it, ...by the shedding of blood is the remission of sin Lev 17:11, and there is not one man born of Adam who's blood is sufficient to pay for his own sins, ...let alone the sins of the whole world, ...why, because mankind's blood is tainted with sin, ...imagine trying to atone for my sins with sin tainted blood, ...it's the same as trying to buy a car with counterfeit money!

However, Jesus took on the form of a man John 1:14, ...He was the sinless God-Man, ...the Second Adam who accomplished ALL of the Law which permitted Him to be the Sacrifice for ALL of humanity.

Like the Holy Spirit tells us:

And He (Jesus) is "the" propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.  1 John 2:2

And whole in the Greek means, ...ALL...

God said it and I believe it!

Lord bless
 

[JustPassingThru]

1 hour ago, Resurrection Priest said:

When they say "dead man walking" - they know that man is not already dead.  He will be dead.  The process has begun, - the last "walk" - which will end in his death. 

The "process" doesn't start in Rev 9, ...the "process" started in Gen 2:17, ...the Hebrew text reads:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die die. 

Gen 2:17  ומעץ H6086 הדעת H1847 טוב H2896 ורע H7451 לא H3808 תאכל H398 ממנו H4480 כי H3588 ביום H3117 אכלך H398 ממנו H4480 מות H4191 תמות׃ H4191

Strong's # H4191 mûth, ...to die

Notice the colon before the last word mûth, ...it summarizes, sharpens, or explains the first mûth.

What the Hebrew scholars teach is, ...dying you will die!

Is that "not" the condition of man from his moment of conception to his last dying breath, ...body temperature must not deviate more than a few degrees, breath, water, food are all necessities and the absence of jut one brings death?

The "process" started in Eden and has be present "in" man ever since...

1 hour ago, Resurrection Priest said:

I believe that is what is meant, when Revelation says "the Lamb" was "slain from the foundation of the world" Rev 13:8.   At the foundation of the world, the process had begun, which would lead to His death. 

Again, the "process" which was the actual "act" of the Lamb being slaughtered was way back before the creation in Eternity past.

In the Greek the word from is, apo it is a prefect passive participle and it means separation, in a distance of time.

Physics tell us to have time and object "must" have weight, ...since God exists in Eternity past as a Spirit, He doesn't have any weight, hence He is before and outside of time, ...that means the "from" in the Greek is telling us the Lamb was slain "before" God created and "time" began.

Greek scholars are divided as to "when" the Lamb was slain, was it in eternity past or was it before the foundation of the world "was "laid, ...either way the "act" of slaughtering the Lamb had been completed, ...so since the lamb had already been slaughtered,  ...the "process"  could not of started when the "act" had already been accomplished.

To try and torture the text to say the act of "slaughtering" the Lamb "began" between the nano second when God's thought became reality as we know it, ...would be a contradiction to John 3:16:

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 

...and blasphemy in denying His Omniscience and Foreknowledge!

If in the nano second the whosoevers would become only those that God has "predestined,"...then that is a contradiction to Eph 1:1-4

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath made us accepted in the Beloved. 

The Holy Spirit tells us we were "blessed" and "chosen," before the/that nano second when God created the foundation of the world, ...when we "existed" already in His Mind.

Like I said previously stated,

God said it, and I believe it!

Lord bless

[JustPassingThru]

@JoeMo  Yeah, me too, the moment I started to fall down and knew I was dying I cried out the only thing I remembered from Sunday School in a cult, ...they called god Father, ...as I was falling over, ...and I new when it hit the floor I would be "in" Hell (and this cult didn't believe in Hell), ...I cried out "Father" and was instantly straight (45 minutes after coming on and peaking on STP), ...way before they started the program, ...and never went back to drugs after that day.

Brother, the Law was/is "only" a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ:

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Gal 3:24

And:

For by Grace are ye saved through Faith; and that not of yourselves (the Faith): it is the gift of God:  Not of works, lest any man should boast.  Eph2:8-9

The Holy Spirit is telling us God in His Grace gave us "His" Faith to believe, ...in the "crisis" moment when we are given the opportunity by the Holy Spirit to chose with a "free" will to "receive" Jesus as our Savior and Lord, ...at that "crisis" moment, ...when your destiny was revealed to you as being Hell, ...what Law did you use, what "work" did you perform, ...like the Scripture says, "not of works."

Can you see that?

If so then:

Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Gal 3:3

If all you did at that "crisis" moment is believe, ...what good will it do you now to try and "do" the works of the Law?

1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

I am still a sinner. I believe I sin because I am(was born) a sinner - I'm not a sinner because I sin.

Yes, you have that correct!

So what happened when you were born again?

To answer that question we have to answer the question, ...what died in Adam?

Since we are spirit and have a soul and both are living inside of a "physical" body, ...what died in Adam the "day" he rebelled, ...it wasn't his body, ...he lived 930 years Gen 5:5.

It wasn't his soul because he was "embarrassed" because he was naked Gen 3:10-11

The only thing left is his spirit and since we all inherit the likeness and image of Adam Gen 5;3, ...we are born, ...humans in his "likeness" and "image" with our spirit "dead" to God.

That means when we are "born again" our spirit is "regenerated" so that we can "communicate" with God, the Word tells us we are a, ..new creation in Christ 2 Cor 5:17, ...a "new"  man and Scripture also tells us we are two persons living in the same body, the "old" carnal nature inherited from Adam and the "new" spiritual natural given/conceived to/in us by the Holy Spirit 1 Pet 1:23

Are you following?

So then John tells us:

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him (us): and He (holy spirit)cannot sin, because he (us) is born of God. 1 John 3:19

What the Holy Spirit is teaching is the "new" born again man cannot sin, ...that means the one sinning "in" us is the "old" carnal man, ...engrave that in your mind and on your heart, ...it's fundamental Christian doctrine!

And Jesus died and became the propitiation for "all" of our sins, those we committed before we became Blood Bought children of God and those that the "old" man commits after we became redeemed!

Many here do not believe this and teach against it, ...be careful you don't fall into the devil's trap with them...

1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

Are overcomers those who conquer every sin in their lives, or those who may be imperfect, but cooperate with the spirit to get rid of sin in their lives; even though they sometimes fall?

Simply put, "over comers" are those children of God who "relinquish" ALL authority in/of their lives to the Holy Spirit and allow Him to "live" His life through them, ...it's total abandonment to Him in faith, ...it's the Holy Spirit who "conquers" the sin in our "old" carnal man, ...remember, the power of sin is the devil and there is no way we can be powerful enough to fight with him and his supernatural strength;

This is the lesson Jesus taught his disciples, ...we read He was all alone during His temptation, ...that means one night around the campfire He said, "Boys, let me tell you something about My temptation, I defeated the devil as a "man, ...not God, ...by using the Word of God, ...and you can defeat him the same way, ...using the Word of God!" 

What that tells us, when we "abandon" ourselves to the Holy Spirit, ...He becomes responsible for us, the New Covenant is:

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;  Heb 10:16

That means when the devil comes to tempt our old sinful carnal man, ...the Holy Spirit will flash a verse on the flat screen in our mind to use, ...it's our Sword to use against the devil, just like our Brother Jesus uses Scripture to defeat the devil, ...however, ...it's our choice to "obey" and use it or not, ...either way we are "saved," ...if we chose to not use it and succumb to the temptation and commit sin, that DOES NOT affect the Salvation of the "new" man, ...simply because he is innocent, ...he didn't commit the sin, ...and the "sin" the "old" man committed was paid for on the Cross of Jesus 2,000 years ago. 

Now, be forewarned brother, ...some her will jump in and say, "See, ...we are willfully sinning, how can we expect God to allow us into Heaven?"

What they completely overlook and do not understand, ..is the difference between the two different men "living" inside of our bodies, ...when the "new" man yields to the "old" man the Holy Spirit will "only" convict the "new" man, ...the "old" can not receive the things of the Spirit 1 Cor 2:14 that "conviction" from the Holy Spirit will cause us to "confess" ...which means to say the same thing God says, our sin to God 1 John 1:9, ...we confess our sin because it causes "godly" sorrow in us, ..."godly sorrow" is we realize and understand what we  individually" did to Jesus, ...that we are responsible for "one" of those lashes on Jesus, for one of the spike of the thorns that pierced His head, for one of the hammer blows the drove the nails through his hands and feet, ...the nerves in His body sending pain to His Mind...

...and when this "reality" reaches into our hearts, ...we cry out in desperation to the Holy Spirit, Please, Please, ...I don't want to hurt "my" (proving it's a "personal" relationship of the heart, ...and NOT just one of the mind) with Him, ...Jesus any more, I don't want to be responsible for one more lash, one more puncture, one more hammer blow ...I don't want to be tempted by that carnal sin anymore, ...please take it from me.

When this cry is from our hearts then this verse kicks in:

 ...and with His stripes we are healed. Isa 53:5d

and the carnal temptation is "removed" from our old sinful nature, ...just as sure as yours and my desire was removed from us to ever take drugs again.

This is called the Sanctification process of being "conformed" into the image of our Lord, Jesus Christ, ...the more we become conformed into His image, ...the more we understand His Holiness and the more of God's hatred (that cost Father the death of His Son) for sin.

We who are truly born again and have relinquished our lives to the Holy Spirit do not willfully continue in sin, ...au contrare, ...we "willfully" continue in the Sanctification process of being conformed in His image, ...to bad some can't see or understand it... 

For us, the True children of God, ...the Sanctification process will be finished at the Rapture of His Church, ...we will be Glorified and living in our Glorified bodies and the "old" carnal man will be no more!

2 hours ago, JoeMo said:

That leads me to wonder if there is a difference between "entering" the Kingdom and "inheriting" the Kingdom

Jesus is the King of the Kingdom of Heaven, when we are born again we are placed positionally "in" Christ and we are now, today, "citizens" of the Kingdom  Php 3:20

When these mortal bodies are transformed into immortal bodies we will be ready to "live" in the Kingdom, ...however, as long as we are in these mortal bodies the Kingdom itself is an inheritance waiting for us to arrive.

2 hours ago, JoeMo said:

In Revelation, It talks about the 144,000 vs. the innumerable multitude of Rev. 7. 

The "key" to understanding the Revelation is found in 1:19

Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

What did John see, Jesus Glorified Rev 1

What are the things which are, ...the dispensation of Grace Eph 3:2 and the Church Age Rev 2-3

What shall be after the dispensation of Grace and the Church Age Rev 4-22

Chapters 4-5 describe the Church in Heaven,

Chapters 6-19 describe the last week of Daniel's 70 week prophecy, ...with 69 weeks being accomplished to the day when Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey, and the last week being called in Scripture, the time of Jacob's troubles, the time of the Wrath of God, the time Tribulation that will come on all of the inhabitants of the earth,

Rev 20 describes the Millennium reign of Jesus as King of the earth, the final rebellion, and the Great White Throne Judgement of the rebellious lost.

Chapters 21-22 our sin free new Earth and new Heaven.

The 144,000 are Jewish evangelists that will be proclaiming the Gospel to the inhabitants of the World, ...finally fulfilling the "mission" God originally gave to the sons of Israel.

The innumerable multitudes are those that were in the cults and other occultic religions having been deceived by the devil, ...that are alive during the Church Age, but left behind after the Rapture of the True Church that will come to believe  in the Jewish Messiah, ...but will have to prove their faith in Him by paying for their faith by decapitation from/by the anti-christ, ...remember, the dispensation of Grace is over, ...finished, ...accomplished, ...the 153rd fish has been caught in the net, ...by the removing of His Bride from the planet.

Those few that "survive" the 7 year Tribulation will be judged by how they treated Jesus' brothers, the Jewish people during the Tribulation  Mat 25:31-46, ...only those that "helped" the Jews will be allowed to go into the Millennium along with the sons of Israel the survived.

Again, be forewarned, ...many will come and say this is not Truth and give you their opinions with verses quoted out of the context the Holy Spirit intended when He wrote them, ...but like I have previously told you brother, ...don't believe me or anyone Acts 17:11, ...but rather ask the Holy Spirit if it is Truth, ...He is the "only" One that can teach us His Word. 1 John 2:27

Lord bless

[JoeMo]

JustPassingThru,

Loving your posts.  It seems like you and I have been through similar life experiences, and have come to many of the sale conclusions concerning our beliefs.

On 1/18/2020 at 7:19 PM, JustPassingThru said:

That means when we are "born again" our spirit is "regenerated" so that we can "communicate" with God, the Word tells us we are a, ..new creation in Christ 2 Cor 5:17,

When we are born again, we are no longer slaves to sin.  We have a choice and the power to reisit the devil once we submit ourselves to God:

"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

On 1/18/2020 at 7:19 PM, JustPassingThru said:

Again, be forewarned, ...many will come and say this is not Truth and give you their opinions

That's okay.  I have plenty of "contrarian" beliefs that others will disagree with; but that's okay.  My view of true Christianity is unity in our love of Christ and desire to be with Him - not uniformity where we all have to think and act the same.  If we all thought the same, there would be no discussion; just "Likes" and "well saids". A friend of mine has a saying - "when the choir sings in unison, there is no harmony".  Another famous person (Bono of U2) one said "When the Holy Spirit leaves the church, all you have left is religion".

[Resurrection Priest]

On 1/18/2020 at 5:02 PM, JustPassingThru said:

First off, you misunderstand

JustPassingThru,

I am addressing you personally, because you addressed me personally.  When you make personal comments and accusations on a public forum, telling me that I "misunderstand" something Scriptural, it makes me want to leave the discussion.  Please stop doing that.  Just state your own beliefs and views, and give reasons for those beliefs and views.  Anyone reading your views can see that you disagree with my views - that you think I have it wrong.   Thanks much. 

[Resurrection Priest]

I don't remember exactly where I heard this, but it was at a Hebrew Roots gathering.  The teacher pointed out three types of sin, in the OT.  

1.  sins of ignorance:  covered by the moed - the continual morning/evening sacrifice until the sinner came to understand that he had sinned.  Then a sin offering was required.

2.  missing the mark:  person was trying, but tripped and fell.  Sin offering required (confession and restitution).  Most sins committed by "Christians" fall in this category.

3.  rebellious sin:  Sin with attitude.  There was no sacrifice for this type of sin.  If the sinner truly had a change of heart, then he could bring a sin offering. 

Where would you put the sin of Ananias and Sapphira?  They were members of the congregation.  They had most probably been baptized.  They had "believed", else they would not be promising money to support the congregation led by Peter there at Jerusalem.  Were Ananias and Sapphira forgiven?  Why then did they both drop dead on the same day, hours apart, when confronted with their sin?  Did God do that?  Or Satan?

 Acts 4:34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need. 

 Acts 5:1 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2 With his wife's full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles' feet. 3 Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God." 5 When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 6 Then some young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him. 7 About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 Peter asked her, "Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?" "Yes," she said, "that is the price." 9 Peter said to her, "How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also." 10 At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.

Can some persons "believe" yet not be born again?  

Is it possible to loose the "new birth" of the Spirit? 

[Tzephanyahu]

19 minutes ago, Resurrection Priest said:

Can some persons "believe" yet not be born again?  

Is it possible to loose the "new birth" of the Spirit? 

Shalom RP, 

It's interesting that in the Parable of the Wheat and Tares it's related to the Kingdom of God specifically and not the world at large. 

But we are also told in John that no one can enter the Kingdom of God unless born of water and spirit.  So were they born right but went wrong by their own endeavours/heart? 

As well as this we get the passage of the Messiah saying not everyone "Lord, Lord" will enter the Kingdom... 

So, it seems to be that the Kingdom on earth produces a large crop, but not all are good.  There is a separation and then the good wheat/fishes/sheep enter into the actual Kingdom of New Jerusalem, when it arrives.  But it seems that the tares/bad fish/goats either thought they were saved (incorrectly) or forfeited it with contrary behavior - much like the Parable of the Unforgiving Servant in Matthew 18. 

Interesting topic. Anyone confident in their salvation should be able to discuss calmly - but it often gets heated quickly - and maybe there is the division? 

Love & Shalom 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Tzephanyahu

[missmuffet]

On 12/23/2019 at 7:17 PM, Lee_ said:

Are the 10 Commandments called "the moral law"?

Yes

[Resurrection Priest]

In the modern era, what about Charles Templeton?  He was an evangelist with Billy Graham.  He was baptized.  For years - many years, he preached Christ and believed in Him and in the Bible.  Yet he later left Christianity, and said he could "no longer believe".  He wrote, "Farewell to God".  (Interesting that he sited millions of years of evolution as fact,  in his farewell discussion with Graham.) 

In my own experience, I was baptized at six months gestation, when my mother was baptized.  lol.  I was baptized again at age 10.  With all my little heart I loved Jesus.  I was baptized again at 18, during a revival series.  At 24, I left my church when my husband of 3 years left me.  I gradually lost any belief in God or Christ.  I did not return to belief until I had a supernatural experience when I was 31.  During my absence of 7 years, I was very much in the world.  I suppose you could call me a prodigal daughter, except that I had lost any belief that I really had a "father" to return to.  I had come to think of it all as just fable and fairy tale.  I didn't believe "HE" was really "there".   The supernatural experience proved to me that HE does exist, and that HE loved me. 

So - was I "saved" while I was "in the world" ?  I don't believe so.    Did God "know" that I would be saved?  Yes.  He knew.   But HIS foreknowledge did not nullify my free will. 

Because God knew that a person would sin, DOES NOT mean that God made that person sin.   The same applies to a person CHOOSING to surrender to Christ.  God may have known that person would one day surrender, but HE did not force that surrender. 

[Tzephanyahu]

4 minutes ago, Resurrection Priest said:

During my absence of 7 years, I was very much in the world. 

Yes I can relate to that.  At a certain time in my life, like yours, a tragedy propelled me from being close with God willingly. 

The Holy Spirit was very patient with me in that time but, eventually, it felt like the Spirit left me after many years. I was filled with depression and a great fear of the end days.  I believe that was from Him as discipline to say "if you stay like this, it won't go well for you". And fair enough man, because I wasn't good for anything nor praising or thanking Him. I had become a useless tenant, and unfruitful branch, or I had "buried the Mina" He gave me. 

HalleluYah that He snapped me out of it though and I paid heed to His discipline. 

But yeah, if I continued on that path and died - I can see me either not being saved or saved "as if jumping through the fire". I think that's why the great fear and depression was set upon me - to be as a serious warning sign. 

One thing is for sure - this life ain't no game. This is our time of sowing, working for the Lord, and being tested and trained in His ways.  The people who neglect to see it as such are in for a rude awakening I believe. 

Love & Shalom