WHERE DO THEY ALL COME FROM?

[Sister]

7 hours ago, Sonshine said:

Does everyone know what the white horse in this verse symbolizes? 

Revelation 6:2 King James Version (KJV)

² And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. 

Hi Sonshine

The four horses reveal worldwide events that lead up to the end. 

The rider of the white horse mentioned above has a bow but no arrow.  A bow is bent.  His word is bent.  The white horse he is riding is just for show to deceive. He is trying to appear holy.   I believe he is preaching Christ, but not according to truth.  He is conquering not through killing, but through his doctrine.  The birth of the Roman church and the Church of England come to mind.  They conquered gentile souls to their way of thinking and using Christ's name to form their religion.  This type of so called Christian religion spread world wide, which actually started from Rome and spread from there.

You can go to Matthew to find the answer;

 Matthew 24:4   And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
 Matthew 24:5   For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

 

If you read on;

 Matthew 24:6   And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

  Matthew 24:7   For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

  Matthew 24:8   All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Christ has just described the Red horse, the second seal of Rev 6.  This happened during the 1st and 2nd world wars.  We know that semi secret groups and known societies were formed because of these wars bringing nations together from the US & Europe gaining more control over the people through forming common policies and keeping their agenda alive by using global politics, the media, military and banking groups.  All working together which will pave the way for the end time beast.

So the first white horse of Revelation, is the sign where things start going downhill, starting with a false Christian religion with a little bit of truth but a whole lot of error.  Preaching according to a bent word, and not a straight one.  No killing to conquer souls, just lies to induce indoctrination. A bent word symbolising a bow for his weapon, and a white horse symbolising purity, but just for show.  It had to start somewhere on a global scale.

The false prophet's kingdom is the pale horse - the fourth seal.  The saints will enter tribulation in the 5th seal.  The first 3 seals just paved the way, and all this took many years to shape the future we are now living in.

[Omegaman 3.0]

I would chime in with an opinion, but, it is JUST that . . . 

Not only is there a possibility of symbolism in visions (just go to Daniel and see how the angel explained the vision Daniel got), but also there, we see that though part of the vision is sealed up. It was not explained in the vision that it was sealed, it was revealed to Daniel outside of the vision. Would Daniel have been better off, to try to understand the vision as literal? If so, then in the future, would come some rams and goats and horns! How helpful! Jesus told His disciples to look to Daniel, to understand things that were yet, still to come.

Now, I pose a few questions. Revelation was written to specific, physical churches. There were some warnings and a few encouraging things said to some of them. If I am a literalist (strictly), then maybe I could not be overly concerned about things said to them . . . or, I could perhaps see them as applicable, to different dispensations, like dispensationalists do. Maybe, I could see them as things for All of the church to understand, and apply it to my life now.

Perhaps, Revelation is like Daniels vision, not for everyone, yet. Revelation 13:18 says:

Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

So, since I am not certain of what 666 is about (it is after all, just a number if there is no symbolism), I obviously do not have the wisdom to understand what I am reading. Call me a skeptic, but I am not positive that any of us, understands a lot about Revelation. If we do, then the literalness (if that is what it is) takes the mystery out of it. We do not even need the Holy Spirit, or study, or exegesis etc, after all, it is literal.

I am not convinced though, that it is not partially sealed to us, but to be understood by those who need to understand it, when they need to understand it.

I like what Sister has done in the post above. She has gone to the more difficult to understand passages, and then elected to go look at the clearer and more specific passages in plain language, to gain insight. Use the clear to help unravel the less clear, a good practice.

[JustPassingThru]

21 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Our pets do not have souls so they do not go to heaven. There will be animals in heaven. There were animals in the garden of Eden.

Dear sister, have you never had a pet that showed it's love for you, a dog that comes squirming, wagging it's tail and licks you, ...or a cat the comes and lays down on you, purrs when you caress it, kneads with it's front paws on you to show it's love for you, ...do we not form an emotional bond with our pets and when they are dying, their eyes look into our eyes and pierce our hearts, and we grieve when they leave us?   ...every cat or dog that I have had the pleasure to be with definitely had a soul, ...what is our soul, is it not the seat of our emotions? Like I said, ...every animal I've known certainly expressed their emotions.

Also the Word tells us God created animals with emotion:

And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.  Gen 1:20

On the fifth day of creation God "spoke" the animal kingdom into existence and then He adds this information for us:

And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.  Gen 1:21

The word created is bârâ', ...the second time it is used in creation, ...so if the animal kingdom already existed, and we know all animal life is made from the elements that all ready existed, ...the question is, ...what did God create bârâ', ...ex nihilo, ...from nothing other than His "Thoughts," ...the answer must be their souls, ...their emotions.

We see the same pattern in the creation of man, ...God explains to us He fashioned (Gen 2:8) man from the dust of the earth Gen 2:7, ...but on the day he was created:

So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.  Gen 1:27

The word created is again the word bârâ', ...and Gen 2:7 tells us man "is" a living soul and the Word tells us elsewhere man has a spirit.

God shows order in His creation, plant life is the lowest in creation that we can see, observe with our eyes, then animal life which has a soul, ...but not a spirit, and then man who is the crown of His creation that is "soul" and has a spirit, ...living inside of a body.

Lord bless

 

[1to3]

17 minutes ago, JustPassingThru said:

Dear sister, have you never had a pet that showed it's love for you, a dog that comes squirming, wagging it's tail and licks you, ...or a cat the comes and lays down on you, purrs when you caress it, kneads with it's front paws on you to show it's love for you, ...do we not form an emotional bond with our pets and when they are dying, their eyes look into our eyes and pierce our hearts, and we grieve when they leave us?   ...every cat or dog that I have had the pleasure to be with definitely had a soul, ...what is our soul, is it not the seat of our emotions? Like I said, ...every animal I've known certainly expressed their emotions.

Also the Word tells us God created animals with emotion:

And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.  Gen 1:20

On the fifth day of creation God "spoke" the animal kingdom into existence and then He adds this information for us:

And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.  Gen 1:21

The word created is bârâ', ...the second time it is used in creation, ...so if the animal kingdom already existed, and we know all animal life is made from the elements that all ready existed, ...the question is, ...what did God create bârâ', ...ex nihilo, ...from nothing other than His "Thoughts," ...the answer must be their souls, ...their emotions.

We see the same pattern in the creation of man, ...God explains to us He fashioned (Gen 2:8) man from the dust of the earth Gen 2:7, ...but on the day he was created:

So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.  Gen 1:27

The word created is again the word bârâ', ...and Gen 2:7 tells us man "is" a living soul and the Word tells us elsewhere man has a spirit.

God shows order in His creation, plant life is the lowest in creation that we can see, observe with our eyes, then animal life which has a soul, ...but not a spirit, and then man who is the crown of His creation that is "soul" and has a spirit, ...living inside of a body.

Lord bless

 

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, JustPassingThru said:

Dear sister, have you never had a pet that showed it's love for you, a dog that comes squirming, wagging it's tail and licks you, ...or a cat the comes and lays down on you, purrs when you caress it, kneads with it's front paws on you to show it's love for you, ...do we not form an emotional bond with our pets and when they are dying, their eyes look into our eyes and pierce our hearts, and we grieve when they leave us?   ...every cat or dog that I have had the pleasure to be with definitely had a soul, ...what is our soul, is it not the seat of our emotions? Like I said, ...every animal I've known certainly expressed their emotions.

Also the Word tells us God created animals with emotion:

And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.  Gen 1:20

On the fifth day of creation God "spoke" the animal kingdom into existence and then He adds this information for us:

And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.  Gen 1:21

The word created is bârâ', ...the second time it is used in creation, ...so if the animal kingdom already existed, and we know all animal life is made from the elements that all ready existed, ...the question is, ...what did God create bârâ', ...ex nihilo, ...from nothing other than His "Thoughts," ...the answer must be their souls, ...their emotions.

We see the same pattern in the creation of man, ...God explains to us He fashioned (Gen 2:8) man from the dust of the earth Gen 2:7, ...but on the day he was created:

So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.  Gen 1:27

The word created is again the word bârâ', ...and Gen 2:7 tells us man "is" a living soul and the Word tells us elsewhere man has a spirit.

God shows order in His creation, plant life is the lowest in creation that we can see, observe with our eyes, then animal life which has a soul, ...but not a spirit, and then man who is the crown of His creation that is "soul" and has a spirit, ...living inside of a body.

Lord bless

 

I love animals. I have had a dog and a cat die who I loved very much. Our animals are part of the family. When these animals die we want to see them in heaven with us but that is not what the Bible says.

Question: "Do pets / animals go to Heaven? Do pets / animals have souls / spirits?"

Answer: The Bible does not give any explicit teaching on whether pets/animals have “souls” or whether pets/animals will be in heaven. However, we can use general biblical principles to develop some clarity on the subject. The Bible states that both man (Genesis 2:7) and animals (Genesis 1:30; 6:17; 7:15, 22) have the “breath of life”; that is, both man and animals are living beings. The primary difference between human beings and animals is that humanity is made in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:26-27), while animals are not. Being made in the image and likeness of God means that human beings are like God, capable of spirituality, with mind, emotion, and will, and they have a part of their being that continues after death. If pets/animals do have a “soul” or immaterial aspect, it must therefore be of a different and lesser “quality.” This difference possibly means that pet/animal “souls” do not continue in existence after death.

https://www.gotquestions.org/pets-heaven.html

Edited January 3, 2020 by missmuffet

[JustPassingThru]

17 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

I love animals. I have had a dog and a cat die who I loved very much. Our animals are part of the family. When these animals die we want to see them in heaven with us but that is not what the Bible says.

Then what is the bârâ' creation in animals and man if the Bible tells us their "bodies" were made form existing materials? It has to be something, no?

Since God is "Spirit" that means His is not "made" from any material part of the material, physical creation, ...not to mention the fact He existed before creation, ...so if God made man in His image, the what is it in man that is not composed of "material, physical," elements, ...is it not our soul and spirit? 

And since animals show emotion, is that not the bârâ' part of their creation God placed in them?

If animals do not have souls, then what is the bârâ', the "part" of them that came from God?

We can't make a definitive statement that there are no animals in Heaven,

1. Heaven is in the future and we live in today and

2. The Bible clearly states there are horses in Heaven which is the subject of this thread.

However, there is a clue to this question:

For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity.   All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return.  Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?  Ecc 3:19-21

Who knows, the wisest man to ever live didn't know the answer, ...so then we can't say for sure either, ...but their is a clue for us, the word "spirit" in this verse means to breath, to have breath and is used in the OT for;  animation, vivacity, vigor, courage, temper, anger, impatience, patience, are those not "emotions" that both man and animals have? Also man is a living "soul" Gen 2:7 and that word also means to breathe.

Funny thing, as I write this our tiger striped "rescue" kitten that we found beside the road  has come and placed his paws on my leg, ...he has been taught that he needs permission to jump up on the desk to be next to me, ...I gave him permission and he is laying down beside the monitor with his front paws out stretched towards me asking, "Papa, let's play," so I gave him a pen to bat around and when he trys to throw it on the floor a catch it and throw it back on the desk, it's one of his favorite games, ...like I said, every cat I've had the pleasure of them "choosing" me, ...has had lots of emotions, ..soul.

Another thing is love is eternal, God is Love and He is Eternal, the Love that we have comes from God, that's also a part of making man in Our image and when a loved one dies our love for them continues on until we die and Luke 16:27 tells us our Love for them goes with us when we die, ...and since animals have souls that means they have the capacity to love, ...and since Love comes from God and God and love are Eternal, ...coupled with we are told in Scripture the soul and it's emotions were given by/through the act of bârâ', creation, ..........then is our pets love for us Eternal too???

Will our pets be in Heaven with us, ...personally, for me, ...that depends only on, ...how big is my God, ...but with God ALL things are possible! Matt 19:26

Lord bless