johnthebaptist Posted March 25, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.30 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted March 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Behold said: So, im understanding you to be explaining to us, that you were born again in '1973, and later in '1985, you really started to walk the walk, live the holy and sanctified life based on a encounter with the supernatural. But during that 12 yr interval while you were waiting to repent, you were still on your way to heaven. I was following you until the word "supernatural" popped up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted March 26, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.87 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 26, 2020 No matter how one understands “ repentance”, there is only ONE type that will get you saved ( three types of “ repentance” exist in the Greek, therein lie the root of many of the problems) Jesus provided us all with a picture of what True Repentance For Salvation looks like—- Remember the Sinful Tax-Collecter? The guy with the Contrite Heart That would not even look up to Heaven because his Conviction Of Sin was so thorough ? All he could do was cry out... “Lord, have mercy on me a Sinner” “ Nobody comes to God lest the Spirit draw him”......Conviction Of Sin MUST come First— THAT is how the Holy Spirit “ draws”. THEN there must be a “ Turning To God with Faith in Jesus Christ” to get the total forgiveness and the “ Imputed Righteousness” that will make one “ fit for Heaven.That “ Turning To God” that was mentioned? THAT is the Repentance required for Salvation. “ Turn to me ( Repent ) and I will turn to you.” It’s that simple. It worked for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted March 26, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted March 26, 2020 On 3/24/2020 at 11:35 AM, johnthebaptist said: If we obey the Lord's commandments, I think we'll find the gate to heaven open. I don't think we are deprived entrance on technicalities. The biblical standard is plainly PERFECTION, not RELATIVE GOODNESS: 1) A utopia means I can NEVER cause harm or suffering 2) HOLY means "DIFFERENT THAN US" or PERFECT 3) Jesus died and rose, the perfect for the imperfect, that we would become (at the Rapture) as morally perfect as God - the great exchange - 2 Cor 5:21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted March 26, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.30 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted March 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Billiards Ball said: The biblical standard is plainly PERFECTION, not RELATIVE GOODNESS: 1) A utopia means I can NEVER cause harm or suffering 2) HOLY means "DIFFERENT THAN US" or PERFECT 3) Jesus died and rose, the perfect for the imperfect, that we would become (at the Rapture) as morally perfect as God - the great exchange - 2 Cor 5:21 Perfection means obeying the two great commandments: Love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself (Matt 22:34-40). [1] If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. [2] And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. [3] If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. 1 Cor 13:1-3 RSV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behold Posted March 26, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 7 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,795 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/30/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted March 26, 2020 16 hours ago, johnthebaptist said: I was following you until the word "supernatural" popped up. This is what you said.. """"In my case, the Lord made his presence known to me in 1973"""" So, johnthebaptist..... did the Lord make his presence known to you in a way that is not supernatural? What was it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted March 26, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.30 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted March 26, 2020 12 minutes ago, Behold said: This is what you said.. """"In my case, the Lord made his presence known to me in 1973"""" So, johnthebaptist..... did the Lord make his presence known to you in a way that is not supernatural? What was it? To me, "supernatural" refers to ghosts and goblins. The Lord is very real. Ghosts and goblins are not. So, using my definition of the word "supernatural," I would say he made his presence known to me in a way that is not supernatural. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted March 26, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted March 26, 2020 37 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said: Perfection means obeying the two great commandments: Love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself (Matt 22:34-40). [1] If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. [2] And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. [3] If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. 1 Cor 13:1-3 RSV Heaven is a permanent residence, there are two ways you can permanently (always, 24/7/365 for millions of years) be morally perfect/never hurt anyone, that is, ALWAYS obey the two commandments with perfect love: 1) Self-will/self-effort/trying my best/Christian process of sanctification 2) Powerful transformation at the Rapture through the Lord Jesus Christ # 2 happens at the RAPTURE, a new, imperishable body plus POWER from Him who've we trusted, and in whom now we have the Spirit, as a deposit toward that TRANSFORMATION (Ephesians 1) # 1 is impossible for humans to do 24/7, therefore, the GOSPEL of salvation via forgiveness now, some transformation now (process of Christian sanctification) and TOTAL transformation LATER, when we meet Him in the air/in Heaven Sometimes when I preach, I ask the audience by show of hands, "Who here loves God/loves their neighbor/is yielded and obedient to Jesus Christ in every way, sexually, mentally, physically, financially, relationally, etc. 24/7?" and NO hands go up, zero, none. The gospel isn't "Jesus saved me from the difficult obedience to the Law of Moses so I could try to obey Him all the time" but "Jesus saved me from difficulties with the Law to be FREE". If I understood you right, John: 1) I don't need Jesus's atonement, I can simply love God and my neighbor for salvation 2) I'm able to never sin now (sinless perfectionism) so that I will never sin (cause harm) in the utopia of Heaven Have I misunderstood your doctrine here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted March 26, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.30 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted March 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, Billiards Ball said: Heaven is a permanent residence, there are two ways you can permanently (always, 24/7/365 for millions of years) be morally perfect/never hurt anyone, that is, ALWAYS obey the two commandments with perfect love: 1) Self-will/self-effort/trying my best/Christian process of sanctification 2) Powerful transformation at the Rapture through the Lord Jesus Christ # 2 happens at the RAPTURE, a new, imperishable body plus POWER from Him who've we trusted, and in whom now we have the Spirit, as a deposit toward that TRANSFORMATION (Ephesians 1) # 1 is impossible for humans to do 24/7, therefore, the GOSPEL of salvation via forgiveness now, some transformation now (process of Christian sanctification) and TOTAL transformation LATER, when we meet Him in the air/in Heaven Sometimes when I preach, I ask the audience by show of hands, "Who here loves God/loves their neighbor/is yielded and obedient to Jesus Christ in every way, sexually, mentally, physically, financially, relationally, etc. 24/7?" and NO hands go up, zero, none. The gospel isn't "Jesus saved me from the difficult obedience to the Law of Moses so I could try to obey Him all the time" but "Jesus saved me from difficulties with the Law to be FREE". If I understood you right, John: 1) I don't need Jesus's atonement, I can simply love God and my neighbor for salvation 2) I'm able to never sin now (sinless perfectionism) so that I will never sin (cause harm) in the utopia of Heaven Have I misunderstood your doctrine here? I believe heaven is what our lives turn into when we repent of our sin: From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted March 26, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.30 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted March 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, DustyRoad said: To others, ghosts and goblins are "fantasy" because they don't exist (unless we mistake demons for "ghosts," of course). Supernatural refers to that which is beyond the natural realm, from the Lord Himself... the difference is elementary. Goblins = not real, supernatural = more real than the natural. I was asked, "Did the Lord make his presence known to you in a way that is not supernatural?" I can't answer that question because different people define the word "supernatural" in different ways. We have presented two definitions of the word in this thread. The Lord made his presence known to me through his Holy Spirit. I think that should answer the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted March 26, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted March 26, 2020 24 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said: I believe heaven is what our lives turn into when we repent of our sin: From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV And for dead Christians, what is their Heaven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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