canada Posted February 29, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 183 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/04/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted February 29, 2020 As noted earlier ... far too literal interpretations of the image of the beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choir loft Posted March 2, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 70 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,221 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 335 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/23/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/10/1947 Share Posted March 2, 2020 On 2/19/2020 at 5:18 PM, Marilyn C said: This is what I believe could very well be used as `the image of the beast,` the final Global leader. It is a hologram. ….and a hologram of a person talks and moves. So that hologram/image of the A/C will, I believe be beamed to every meeting place, council, sports auditorium, school, where the people give honour and allegiance to the person who brought peace to the world. So instead of honouring and giving allegiance to the flag, (your country) it will be to a person, the A/C. And the young and old will gladly do this for all want `Peace & safety, (security - same word in the Greek). Unbelievably stupid interpretation of scripture. In Daniel as well as Revelation a beast is representative of a system, organization or nation. In Revelation 13 a beast rises out of the sea. Revelation 17 defines the waters as being 'nations and multitudes and peoples'. Therefore the beast, which is further defined as a religious organization, arises out of a population of people. The image of a thing is a representative copy of the original. A child is the image of its parents. The earth beast described in Revelation is the image, or copy, of the sea beast. As the sea beast arises out of a huge population of people the earth beast, a copy, arises out of barrenness. The Bible nowhere suggests robotic technology, holograms or sci fi special effects. It speaks to organizations, systems and nations and the populations that support them. Read your Bible. You will not get proper interpretation of scripture from comic books or Hollywood movies. READ THE BIBLE. that's me, hollering from the choir loft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mychael Posted March 2, 2020 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 14 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/18/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 2, 2020 Its here in the form of AI, your TV, pc monitor then cell phone all are images that speak and move. It just hasn't morphed into it's final identity yet. The Internet, man's total conscience pulled together as best as man could do on one system for the end of an age. Is Mankind's total conscience equal to God? No, but most will believe it is because it will be based on mankind logic, not God's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted March 2, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,225 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,512 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Author Share Posted March 2, 2020 8 hours ago, choir loft said: Unbelievably stupid interpretation of scripture. In Daniel as well as Revelation a beast is representative of a system, organization or nation. In Revelation 13 a beast rises out of the sea. Revelation 17 defines the waters as being 'nations and multitudes and peoples'. Therefore the beast, which is further defined as a religious organization, arises out of a population of people. The image of a thing is a representative copy of the original. A child is the image of its parents. The earth beast described in Revelation is the image, or copy, of the sea beast. As the sea beast arises out of a huge population of people the earth beast, a copy, arises out of barrenness. The Bible nowhere suggests robotic technology, holograms or sci fi special effects. It speaks to organizations, systems and nations and the populations that support them. Read your Bible. You will not get proper interpretation of scripture from comic books or Hollywood movies. READ THE BIBLE. that's me, hollering from the choir loft... Hi choir loft, We are talking about the LEADER of that system. `one of its heads.....he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God...` (Rev. 13: 3 & 6) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggg Posted March 3, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 3, 2020 (edited) 19 hours ago, choir loft said: The Bible nowhere suggests robotic technology, holograms or sci fi special effects. It speaks to organizations, systems and nations and the populations that support them. You left out "individuals". The first beast and second beast in Revelation 13 are individuals. The first beast also represents the kingdom of the individual. first beast - a king over a kingdom second beast - a religous figure, a false prophet, associated with that king. a control system, designed to force loyalty to the king: the mark of his name , the name, the number of the king's name - 666. The image is like the statue image of Nebuchadnezzar, in Daniel 3, that everyone was suppose to bow down to. Edited March 3, 2020 by douggg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choir loft Posted March 3, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 70 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,221 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 335 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/23/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/10/1947 Share Posted March 3, 2020 5 hours ago, douggg said: You left out "individuals". The first beast and second beast in Revelation 13 are individuals. The first beast also represents the kingdom of the individual. first beast - a king over a kingdom second beast - a religous figure, a false prophet, associated with that king. a control system, designed to force loyalty to the king: the mark of his name , the name, the number of the king's name - 666. The image is like the statue image of Nebuchadnezzar, in Daniel 3, that everyone was suppose to bow down to. Beasts in the Biblical prophecy are NEVER representative of individuals unless specifically stated. Beasts are representative of systems organizations and nations - always. The sea beast of Revelation 13 arises out of the sea, meaning multitudes of people (see Revelation 17). The leader is a horn that arises out of the beasts' head. Leaders always arise out of an organization, not the other way around. Your concept of the beast as a man is derived from tabloid novelizations of prophecy meant to garner money from ignorant readers, not to support truth. To get truth one must study the Bible, not TV preachers. that's me, hollering from the choir loft.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggg Posted March 4, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4, 2020 18 hours ago, choir loft said: The sea beast of Revelation 13 arises out of the sea, meaning multitudes of people (see Revelation 17). The leader is a horn that arises out of the beasts' head. Leaders always arise out of an organization, not the other way around. If you go to Daniel 7, you will find that the four beasts coming out of the sea are not only kingdoms, but four kings. Daniel 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth. The fourth of those kings is the little horn person. The little horn will emerge out of the fourth kingdom - the Roman Empire, and in the end times version that is the EU. 18 hours ago, choir loft said: Your concept of the beast as a man is derived from tabloid novelizations of prophecy meant to garner money from ignorant readers, not to support truth. To get truth one must study the Bible, not TV preachers. No, it is from Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choir loft Posted March 6, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 70 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,221 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 335 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/23/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/10/1947 Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) On 3/4/2020 at 3:35 AM, douggg said: If you go to Daniel 7, you will find that the four beasts coming out of the sea are not only kingdoms, but four kings. Daniel 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth. The fourth of those kings is the little horn person. The little horn will emerge out of the fourth kingdom - the Roman Empire, and in the end times version that is the EU. No, it is from Jesus. YOU DID NOT READ DANIEL 7. "And the ten horns are ten kings who will rise from this kingdom." - Daniel 7:24a How clear does it have to get? Horns represent human leaders that arise out of the beastly kingdom. That's what the words say. Read them. The Bible interprets itself. Read the Bible. You are hung up on preconceptions, forced upon us by tabloid rubbish. The Bible represents beasts as systems, organizations or nations. In Daniel 7 scripture speaks of kingdoms. The horns that arise out of the beast are leaders. The Bible is very specific about this especially in Daniel 7. All you have to do is read the words. Tabloid literature interprets the End Times European power as political. The Bible refers to it as a religious system. The Bible doesn't refer to the EU. Revelation speaks to a religious system, drunk on the blood of the saints. The Catholic church has murdered in excess of 55 million people over its long bloody history. The EU has killed no one. All you have to do is read the words. The Bible interprets itself. All you have to do is read its words - inspired by the Holy Spirit (2 Timothy 3:16) not the ilk of Hal Lindsey, Jonathan Cahn, Joel Richardson, Jack Van Impe, John Nelson Darby or others all of whom were inspired by money rather than God. The end game of the end times is that the Bible identifies the Roman Catholic church as the sea beast of Revelation 13, the United States is the earth beast created in the image of the sea beast (*) and the Pope as the anti-christ figure head leader - who died and was raised again in its office. Its really quite simple. The problem is that most people who adopt an End Times scenario in their minds don't bother to study the Bible to see what it says about its own prophecies. They prefer to read trash instead because such garbage doesn't require additional study. The Bible always does. Study to show yourself approved. Or don't and look like a fool. (I know you are not and that you are struggling to understand. Beware tabloid lies and seek the truth for yourself.) that's me, hollering from the choir loft... (*) An image of a thing is a copy of it. For example, a child is the image of its parents. The United States began its history as a Protestant movement. Despite its intimations as being different from Rome, all the Reformation succeeded in doing was changing the jurisdiction of its religious leaders. The Protestant church remains bound at the hip to the Roman Catholic church in every way except apostolic succession. For example, Rome declared Sunday to be the day of worship contrary to the 3rd commandment (Saturday). Protestants happily follow Rome's lead. Daniel says the anti-christ power would seek to change dates and seasons. The EU makes no such claim to religious authority. Edited March 6, 2020 by choir loft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggg Posted March 7, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 7, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, choir loft said: YOU DID NOT READ DANIEL 7. "And the ten horns are ten kings who will rise from this kingdom." - Daniel 7:24a How clear does it have to get? Horns represent human leaders that arise out of the beastly kingdom. That's what the words say. Read them. That was not the issue. I never said the ten horns were not ten kings. 9 hours ago, choir loft said: The Bible represents beasts as systems, organizations or nations. In Daniel 7 scripture speaks of kingdoms. This is the issue. The four beasts also represent 4 kings. It is right in the text. 17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth. 9 hours ago, choir loft said: That's what the words say. Read them. I really don't know why some posters feel they have to lecture. 9 hours ago, choir loft said: All you have to do is read the words. more lecturing. 9 hours ago, choir loft said: The Bible interprets itself. Read the Bible. You are hung up on preconceptions, forced upon us by tabloid rubbish. more lecturing. 9 hours ago, choir loft said: Tabloid literature interprets the End Times European power as political. more lecturing. 9 hours ago, choir loft said: All you have to do is read the words. more lecturing. 9 hours ago, choir loft said: All you have to do is read its words - inspired by the Holy Spirit (2 Timothy 3:16) not the ilk of Hal Lindsey, Jonathan Cahn, Joel Richardson, Jack Van Impe, John Nelson Darby or others all of whom were inspired by money rather than God. more lecturing. 9 hours ago, choir loft said: The problem is that most people who adopt an End Times scenario in their minds don't bother to study the Bible to see what it says about its own prophecies. more lecturing. 9 hours ago, choir loft said: They prefer to read trash instead because such garbage doesn't require additional study. more lecturing. 9 hours ago, choir loft said: Study to show yourself approved. more lecturing. 9 hours ago, choir loft said: Or don't and look like a fool. more lecturing. 9 hours ago, choir loft said: that's me, hollering from the choir loft... It is not a virtue. Edited March 7, 2020 by douggg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choir loft Posted March 7, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 70 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,221 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 335 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/23/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/10/1947 Share Posted March 7, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, douggg said: That was not the issue. I never said the ten horns were not ten kings. This is the issue. The four beasts also represent 4 kings. It is right in the text. 17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth. I really don't know why some posters feel they have to lecture. more lecturing. more lecturing. more lecturing. more lecturing. more lecturing. more lecturing. more lecturing. more lecturing. more lecturing. It is not a virtue. Lecturing, however futile it may be, is an attempt to transmit accurate knowledge. It is indeed a virtue as every institution of higher learning demonstrates. If the reader has ever attended one he or she will testify that lecturing is a proven and accepted method of teaching. Those that are unfamiliar with education beyond the elementary school level will certainly find lecturing a foreign and unusual process. It is valid nevertheless. * * * In Daniel 7 is related the dream of beasts. In the Bible, beasts ALWAYS represent systems organizations or nations/kingdoms. Here are the four beasts and their representation in history. The great sea is representative of multitudes and peoples and nations and tongues (Revelation 17:15). Four great beasts arise out of the sea in Daniel 7. LION - the first beast described in the dream represents the Neo-Babylonian Empire. This is also linked to the metallic statue wherein Nebuchadnezzar is the top or head or beginning of empires. BEAR - Median Empire. LEOPARD - Persian Empire. TERRIBLE - Selucid Empire. The forth beast isn't described as an animal in the traditional manner, but instead conveys danger and power by means of iron teeth and strength. Nevertheless Daniel does refer to it as a beast, meaning a kingdom. Consistency of interpretation must be preserved if any sense is to be made from prophecy. Rulers and kings, who arise and are described as horns, are in turn supported by their respective systems or kingdoms. Verse 17 states the four beasts are four kings who arise. A king is representative of his kingdom, a representation which continues to this day. A beast is a kingdom. A horn is a leader or king of that kingdom. The images are not interchangeable so much as they are linked to one another. For instance, when an announcement is made that the United States is arriving it is the President of the United States who walks into the room, not 325 million citizens all at once. It is important to keep the standard of interpretation intact so as to avoid confusion. The problem with popular tabloid interpretations today is lack of a qualifying standard. Anyone with a subjective opinion can make a fast buck provided they are good at story telling. Leaders are represented as a horn of the beast, or as you pointed out they may also be given the name of the beast as in Daniel 7:17. The same principle of objective interpretation also applies to politics, which is one reason so many subjective explanations of current events are associated with the lunatic fringe. FINALLY, you seemed to initially agree with me that Daniel's beasts represent kingdoms. Continuing on, you appear to reverse your statement and insist they are men. Your own posts indicate confusion and inconsistency on your part. Which is it? Do you agree with me or are you just being argumentative? My persistence in 'lecturing' is an attempt to clarify terms and interpretations of those terms. They are repeated because they are basic principles of Biblical interpretation. If one can't use basic principles of interpretation in a consistent manner he or she will appear to be confused. Why are you opposed to your own words? Please be consistent with your remarks else the argument will continue - abated only by the censors who constantly peer over our shoulders. I feel the need to lecture so as to explain Biblical prophecy in a meaningful logical fashion. You feel the need to pontificate because of your dogmatic and inconsistent interpretation. Beasts always represent systems organizations or nations while horns out of the beasts head represent men in a role of leadership. Why is this so hard to understand? It's not rocket science, you know. that's me, hollering from the choir loft... Edited March 7, 2020 by choir loft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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