WHAT DOES IT MEAN

[yomotalking]

Well, when I came on, everyone was at each other's throats!

LOL

I agree that it needs discussing...but now we have reached the same view.........

Yomo

[Guest Zayit]

Hello to everyone.

Do you have any opinion on these verses? What does it mean?

9:21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Jessie

well,Noah was a man of faith and a prophet,but still human,and as such was weak in his fleshly nature....aren't we all like that?

At the same time,even though he sinned getting drunk and disorderly ,Ham by making fun of Him displeased The Lord...

We really shouldn't gloat over other people sins and shortcomings neither ridicule them in their human weakness.....but we should pray for ourselves first that we don't fall( in case we think that we are any better than others=PRIDE) andpray for anyone else caught in sin that would be delivered by The Lord...Thats my 5 cents

God bless you!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where did it say he sinned? Wasn't Ham's son cursed for this? Why not Ham himself? Why does everyone see Noach as sinning? Where does it say he got "disorderly"? this was disrespecting his father. Noach didn't do anything wrong. Look at all he went through, he planted a vineyard and had to wait, do you know how lond it takes to grow grapes, enough to make wine? He was in his tent, asleep, in private. It doesn't say he sinned against G-d anywhere.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Try the numerous verses that talk about how no one is perfect, all have sinned, there is none righteous, you know, good ole' scripture from Romans.

Noah sinned by gettng drunk. It doesn't have to spell it out for us. Judah hired his daughter in law to have sex with him, yet it never says he sinned in the process...even though it's quite obvious. Ham gets in trouble for shaming his father, for using his father's sin against him {Noah}.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK, I'll be more specific, where does it say that Noah being drunken in this scenario was a sin ? This is not a discussion about if all have sinned or not, but if Noach was guilty of a sin called drunkeness. If he was sinning how then does G-d honor his curse on Caanan? Show me in Torah where it is a sin to get inibriated.

And for those who don't know, uncovering someones nakedness in the bible is a nice way of saying they took off their clothes in reference to having some sort of sex. Noach sin wasn't one of drunkeness, but what it lead to.

[yomotalking]

You mean that Noah KNEW what would happen if he did that.

So, you're saying he did that on PURPOSE????

That it was intentional?

Yomo

[Guest Zayit]

? Who are you talking to Yomo? I don't understand your questions?

[yomotalking]

I don't know.....I'm confused.

Ok.....I thought everyone had reached the same conclusion....

Oh well!

Don't worry.

Yomo

[apothanein kerdos]

Hello to everyone.

Do you have any opinion on these verses? What does it mean?

9:21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Jessie

well,Noah was a man of faith and a prophet,but still human,and as such was weak in his fleshly nature....aren't we all like that?

At the same time,even though he sinned getting drunk and disorderly ,Ham by making fun of Him displeased The Lord...

We really shouldn't gloat over other people sins and shortcomings neither ridicule them in their human weakness.....but we should pray for ourselves first that we don't fall( in case we think that we are any better than others=PRIDE) andpray for anyone else caught in sin that would be delivered by The Lord...Thats my 5 cents

God bless you!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where did it say he sinned? Wasn't Ham's son cursed for this? Why not Ham himself? Why does everyone see Noach as sinning? Where does it say he got "disorderly"? this was disrespecting his father. Noach didn't do anything wrong. Look at all he went through, he planted a vineyard and had to wait, do you know how lond it takes to grow grapes, enough to make wine? He was in his tent, asleep, in private. It doesn't say he sinned against G-d anywhere.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Try the numerous verses that talk about how no one is perfect, all have sinned, there is none righteous, you know, good ole' scripture from Romans.

Noah sinned by gettng drunk. It doesn't have to spell it out for us. Judah hired his daughter in law to have sex with him, yet it never says he sinned in the process...even though it's quite obvious. Ham gets in trouble for shaming his father, for using his father's sin against him {Noah}.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK, I'll be more specific, where does it say that Noah being drunken in this scenario was a sin ? This is not a discussion about if all have sinned or not, but if Noach was guilty of a sin called drunkeness. If he was sinning how then does G-d honor his curse on Caanan? Show me in Torah where it is a sin to get inibriated.

And for those who don't know, uncovering someones nakedness in the bible is a nice way of saying they took off their clothes in reference to having some sort of sex. Noach sin wasn't one of drunkeness, but what it lead to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So the verses in Proverbs that speak of how not to be like the drunkards, to not look upon wine when it is red, are not saying that it's a sin?

Zayit, Noah sinned by getting drunk. It is plain and simple. There is no getting around it. It is a sin to get drunk, and this is one of the clearest concepts taught in the Bible.

[Guest Zayit]

So the verses in Proverbs that speak of how not to be like the drunkards, to not look upon wine when it is red, are not saying that it's a sin?

And there is a proverb (31) that says this:

It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for * princes strong drink:

But in the same chapter it also says this:

31:6

Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. 

31:7

Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more. 

It's what you do when you get drunk not getting drunk in and of itself.

Why should not Kings or princes drink strong drink?

31:5

Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted . 

This held true for the same reason given to Aaron in Leviticus:10 for all generations: Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

If you have taken the vow of a Nazarite then yes, you go against your promise to HaShem, you sin, but then eating a grape could do that.

Zayit, Noah sinned by getting drunk. It is plain and simple. There is no getting around it. It is a sin to get drunk, and this is one of the clearest concepts taught in the Bible

Then G-d must tell his people to sin. Deut 14.

[apothanein kerdos]

PRoverbs 31:6-7 was talking about those on the verge of dying, as a way of using alcohol as an anesthetic. The deep in depression used it as an anti-depressant. In both cases the drunkeness is allowed due to medical use. Both of these problems can be taken care of today with medcine.

What does Deuteronomy 14 have to do with anything? They shall have new wine? So what? I'm not against drinking, I'm against being drunk.

[Guest Zayit]

You can be against it all you want, I am not condoning it, but I am not going to call something a sin to justify your reason for saying Noah sinned only by being drunk.

Show me in Torah where it says "Thou shalt not.............." The only place I see it is in reguard to anyone that takes a Nazarite vows.

[apothanein kerdos]

Why do you only appeal to the Torah for authority?

Regardless, it's called foolish, something Christians should not participate in, it is the drink of the fools, of the lazy, of the gluttons...all of which are sins.

Noah sinned by being drunk