Last Daze Posted March 5, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, not an echo said: Consider your above sentence with these highlighted words that were omitted (I'm not saying you did this intentionally ): "The armies are gathering for THE WAR of the great day of God, the Almighty." To me, there is an important difference to be understood between the Day of the Lord and THE WAR of the Day of the Lord (i.e., "the great day of God, the Almighty."). There are many examples that could be used, but I'm presently thinking of the day of John Kennedy. I was alive in the day of John Kennedy, but, there was also the day of THE ASSASSINATION of John Kennedy, which was a specific day. The "BATTLE of that great day of God Almighty" (KJV) will come DURING the Day of the Lord. This battle will be on a specific day. I am still of the conclusion that the Day of the Lord begins when the 7th Seal is removed, which again, I believe can happen the same day as the opening of the 6th Seal, in harmony with Joel's prophecy concerning the phenomena relating to the sun and the moon (Joel 2:31/Acts 2:20), coupled with the cry of the people (Rev. 6:17). And there are other reasons... But Last Daze, I certainly agree with you that the most important thing is to be ready! In the meantime, prophecy is certainly so very interesting! Most of us who engage in studying prophecy see things differently. I've said my piece and am content to leave it at that. Everything will work out according to the will of God. Stay awake and alert my friend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not an echo Posted March 6, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,204 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 128 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/10/1957 Author Share Posted March 6, 2020 On 3/4/2020 at 7:01 PM, Last Daze said: Most of us who engage in studying prophecy see things differently. I've said my piece and am content to leave it at that. Everything will work out according to the will of God. Stay awake and alert my friend. I appreciate your gracious reply, Last Daze and regard you as being like the noble Bereans... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted March 6, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 6, 2020 9 hours ago, not an echo said: I appreciate your gracious reply, Last Daze and regard you as being like the noble Bereans... Thanks, Voice. I like to view the pursuit of truth like this: And he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. Acts 18:26 The key phrase being "more accurately." As long as we have ears to hear what the Spirit is saying to us, our understanding will continue to progress in accuracy. Too much strife comes from the binary of right and wrong when it should be viewed as a gradient of accuracy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not an echo Posted March 9, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,204 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 128 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/10/1957 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) On 3/1/2020 at 8:24 PM, not an echo said: I would like to propose that the book sealed with seven seals could rightly be entitled, THE DAY OF THE LORD. Every book has a title. And granted, this book could rightly be entitled THE SEVEN SEALED BOOK. But, when titled as I am suggesting, I believe you will find this to be of great value in understanding The Revelation, for the Day of the Lord is what this book is all about. Back to my opening post for this thread, to me, the seals of the Seven Sealed Book represent those things leading up to what is within the book. I continue to be perplexed that this concept seems so foreign to studies on The Revelation that I have found. For me, it has become a most basic truth, which having been seen, it can't be unseen. When teaching on this subject, I use seven pieces of tape attached to a book (a hymnal works well!) to represent these seals. Everyone always understands that the book is not meant to open until the last piece of tape, or last seal, is removed. But, the seals are more than just seals. With each seal that is opened or removed, John beholds something that is to take place. If the seals are preventing this book from being opened, it just stands to reason that what they represent will take place before the book is opened. So, in accord with my interpretive suggestion that this book could rightly be entitled THE DAY OF THE LORD, the seals would represent what all will take place before the Day of the Lord begins. Edited February 1, 2023 by not an echo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted March 9, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,099 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 561 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) On 3/1/2020 at 8:24 PM, not an echo said: I would like to propose that the book sealed with seven seals could rightly be entitled, THE DAY OF THE LORD. Every book has a title. And granted, this book could rightly be entitled THE SEVEN SEALED BOOK. But, when titled as I am suggesting, I believe you will find this to be of great value in understanding The Revelation, for the Day of the Lord is what this book is all about. You are right it starts the Day of the Lord, but these guys have all kind of wild ideas, so they will not agree with you, even though you are right, so don't sweat it brother. All of the Seals save maybe the 7th Seal are opened on day 1261, which leaves 1260 days until Jesus' Second Coming. The DOTL is a DAY that starts God's Wrath towards mankind, it however lasts for 3.5 years. In spite of all the facts don't look for many on here to see that. It runs the gambit. They then like each others errors and never slow down, it just amazes me at some of these wild ideas. Edited March 9, 2020 by Revelation Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not an echo Posted March 14, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,204 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 128 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/10/1957 Author Share Posted March 14, 2020 (edited) On 3/9/2020 at 4:29 AM, Revelation Man said: You are right it starts the Day of the Lord, but these guys have all kind of wild ideas, so they will not agree with you, even though you are right, so don't sweat it brother. All of the Seals save maybe the 7th Seal are opened on day 1261, which leaves 1260 days until Jesus' Second Coming. Hi Revelation Man, I've been busy (as you know! ) over in my thread concerning The Chronological Order Of The Revelation (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/249470-the-chronological-order-of-the-revelation/). It is increasingly difficult for me to keep up with who has posted what, and what each member is believing. But, as I try to clarify in that thread, I do not believe that the seals are part of Daniel's 70th Week. If I am understanding you, you are seeing Daniel's 70th Week as including the seals. However, I believe that Daniel's 70th Week comes sometime after the Day of the Lord has begun. And, I don't believe the Day of the Lord will actually commence until the last seal of the Seven Sealed Book is opened. Which means, I also don't believe that Daniel's 70th Week will begin until after this. I see the seals as representing those things that will take place LEADING UP TO the opening of the Seven Sealed Book (and what it contains). Because there is no prohibiting time frame that would prevent such a view, I believe that the 7th Seal can be opened later, THE SAME DAY that the 6th Seal is opened. As you may know by now, I believe that the rapture of the Church will happen with the opening of the 6th Seal. I must point out, however, that I am pre-trib in my rapture view, I just don't hold to the common view. I also don't hold to the other 6th Seal rapture views (that I am aware of), with which mine greatly differs. In a nutshell, I believe the prior seals belong to the Church Age, in harmony with what Jesus spoke in the opening section of His Olivet Discourse. I explain this more fully in my thread concerning the chronological order of The Revelation. And, I will probably end up explaining it some more during this thread. But, for now, I want to bring out something else that I believe you (and all) will find very interesting. After the opening of the 6th Seal, the people (those LEFT BEHIND) cry out, "For the great day of His wrath is come" (Rev. 6:17). I see this as being in reference to the Day of the Lord, which "is come" indeed, in that it commences THAT SAME DAY! As can be deduced, this means that, according to my view, the Church will have been raptured just before the Day of the Lord actually begins. Very akin to this, I would like to call your attention to a prophecy quoted by Peter on the Day of Pentecost. In Acts chapter two, we have an account of the Day of Pentecost and of the Holy Spirit's enabling of the disciples to witness in other languages. After a curious crowd has gathered to where the disciples are at, Peter stands before them to clarify just what is taking place and appeals to an Old Testament prophecy given some 800 years prior. In verse 16, he declares, "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel." And what was that? Following is the first part of that prophecy, which relates to what is then happening: 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on My servants and on My handmaidens I will pour out in those days of My Spirit; and they shall prophesy: What happened on the Day of Pentecost marked the beginning of the fulfilling of Joel's prophecy, and this first part pertained to God's pouring out of His Spirit upon the Church. This event also marked the beginning, or inauguration, of what has come to be called the Church Age. For believers, it should not be too surprising that any prophecy be fulfilled. What is sometimes surprising, however, is to find unanticipated elements in a prophecy. Just such an element exists here. Looking back, as it turns out, Joel's prophecy gives defining marks OF THE VERY DAY of the BEGINNING of the Church Age. But, equally as remarkable as this, it also gives defining marks OF THE VERY DAY of the CLOSING of the Church Age! This outstanding element of Joel's prophecy can be seen when its relationship to the 6th Seal is understood. Follow closely. That the Church Age began on the Day of Pentecost is readily apparent. When will it end? On the day of the rapture, just before the Day of the Lord begins. With these things in mind, notice the last part of Joel's prophecy and something else that will occur just before the Day of the Lord begins. Again, from Acts 2: 20 The SUN shall be turned into DARKNESS, and the MOON into BLOOD, before that great and notable Day of the Lord come: As we know, this exact phenomena concerning the sun and the moon is spoken of in The Revelation. Before we look afresh at the specific place, imagine that The Revelation is a treasure trove of mysteries (which it is!), each with its own padlock. If the above words of Joel's prophecy represented notches on a key, the key with these notches would fit the lock of the mystery of---you guessed it---the 6th Seal! Consider the similarity between the above verse of Joel's prophecy and the opening and closing verses of the account of this seal (Rev. 6:12 and 17): VERSE 12---And I beheld when He had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the SUN became BLACK as sackcloth of hair, and the MOON became as BLOOD; VERSE 17---For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? As can be seen, the first half of Acts 20:20 fits verse 12, and the last half fits verse 17. This is the only place in The Revelation where this key from Joel's prophecy will fit. I can almost hear the click! Scripture consistently supports that the Church Age will close on this day that "the sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood." Of course, since the close of the Church Age is brought about by the rapture, this happens the same day as well. Moreover, this all takes place just before the Day of the Lord begins---TO THE DAY! Summed up, Joel's prophecy marks both the opening and closing days of the Church Age (like bookends!) giving us a very important key to unlocking the mystery of the 6th Seal and the timing of the rapture. All of this reminds me of the way puzzle pieces that are meant to fit together also interlock with other pieces. Edited February 1, 2023 by not an echo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted March 21, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,640 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,371 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 21, 2020 When you see the A of D... Then there shall be great tribulation... Then the sign of the Son of man.... Then they will see Him coming on the clouds with power and great glory.... Then the angels gather the elect... The only gathering that answers every question. There is no gathering mentioned before the A of D in any book in scripture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted March 21, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,640 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,371 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 21, 2020 And honestly? The seals have opened? Do we really think war, economic control/collapse and death and hell have run rampant over the earth? What makes the last 2000 years different in this than the 2000 years before Jesus? Not one thing. There has always been war, famine and death. There is no increase in any of it and it's no worse or better. In fact it may have been even more destructive in the time before Jesus came to earth considering population numbers. There were rulers over the entire world in the time before Christ. We don't have that now and have not in last 2000 years. Sure, you could say there's some hidden organization pulling the strings of world affairs and I would agree, but that isn't a king over the earth like Nebuchadnezzar, the Persian kings or Alexander. Even the great Muslim hordes and the Mongols did not rule over the whole earth. If nothing in world events differentiates this moment with bygone eras then we have not reached the level of fulfilled prophecy. Not to mention all Jesus' words from Matt 24:4 to the end of the chapter are said to be witnessed by the population in existence at the time. Jesus' words in Matt 24 about the end of the age and His coming are an overview of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. So no, it didn't begin long ago and hasn't started yet. Revelation cannot supersede Matt 24, they must harmonize without contradiction. Noah found law in the eyes of the Lord? Noah found the 10 Commandments in the eyes of the Lord? "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD." - Gen 6 No way! This is the age of grace. There was no grace before the almighty Christian church came into existence. Clearly this is to be ignored and church doctrine must be enforced. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted March 21, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,640 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,371 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 21, 2020 All this 6th seal stuff is fascinating but there isn't any associated timing that proves when that will happen in relation to other events which lead to the conclusion the 6th seal is the beginning of the week. Or the beginning of the last half. It's seems funny that the penultimate seal is the beginning. I agree it's when the gathering occurs but as Jesus said the gathering only happens some time after the A of D. Paul said the same. Only after the person in question sits in the Temple showing himself to be God does the Day of Christ begin and the gathering occurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted March 21, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Diaste said: And honestly? The seals have opened? Do we really think war, economic control/collapse and death and hell have run rampant over the earth? What makes the last 2000 years different in this than the 2000 years before Jesus? Not one thing. There has always been war, famine and death. There is no increase in any of it and it's no worse or better. In fact it may have been even more destructive in the time before Jesus came to earth considering population numbers. There were rulers over the entire world in the time before Christ. We don't have that now and have not in last 2000 years. Sure, you could say there's some hidden organization pulling the strings of world affairs and I would agree, but that isn't a king over the earth like Nebuchadnezzar, the Persian kings or Alexander. Even the great Muslim hordes and the Mongols did not rule over the whole earth. If nothing in world events differentiates this moment with bygone eras then we have not reached the level of fulfilled prophecy. Not to mention all Jesus' words from Matt 24:4 to the end of the chapter are said to be witnessed by the population in existence at the time. Jesus' words in Matt 24 about the end of the age and His coming are an overview of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. So no, it didn't begin long ago and hasn't started yet. Revelation cannot supersede Matt 24, they must harmonize without contradiction. Noah found law in the eyes of the Lord? Noah found the 10 Commandments in the eyes of the Lord? "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD." - Gen 6 No way! This is the age of grace. There was no grace before the almighty Christian church came into existence. Clearly this is to be ignored and church doctrine must be enforced. So true. And some believe that only new testament believers make up the bride of Christ. So much churchian doctrine in western culture today is an extension of an entitled / privileged mentality that in no way reflects a scriptural world view. People believe what they want to believe. Those who seek truth will find it. Those who seek their own glory already have their reward (Matthew 6). The events of the end time will segregate the believers from unbelievers and no one will be able to gainsay the truth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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