ReneeIW Posted March 21, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 780 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted March 21, 2020 13 hours ago, Jostler said: A lot that is impossible or unprofitable now, will probably be natural and normal in coming months. You think this particular virus and the unfolding events represent what is prophesied in Revelation? Through this virus, The Lord has shown us how fragile we all are and how dependent we all are on Him. I’m somehow feeling that is what we will get out of this. It will cause His people to examine how we are living our lives. I just imagine the end times being worse than a virus that seems to take people quickly if they are susceptible to it. I always thought the end times meant suffering to a degree that we would be asking mountains to fall on us. But maybe you think it will progress to that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jostler Posted March 21, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 24 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,679 Content Per Day: 1.36 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 16 Joined: 01/19/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted March 21, 2020 Just now, ReneeIW said: You think this particular virus and the unfolding events represent what is prophesied in Revelation? Through this virus, The Lord has shown us how fragile we all are and how dependent we all are on Him. I’m somehow feeling that is what we will get out of this. It will cause His people to examine how we are living our lives. I just imagine the end times being worse than a virus that seems to take people quickly if they are susceptible to it. I always thought the end times meant suffering to a degree that we would be asking mountains to fall on us. But maybe you think it will progress to that? I don't think this is the great tribulation if that's what you mean. I think this IS what Jesus warned us to watch for in Matt 24....a big birth pain. He pointedly said "but the end is not yet" after listing off wars, rumours of wars, famines, plagues, pestilence and earthquakes in divers places. So things accelerate and begin breaking down before we get to those "great tribulation" things that mark the end of this age. It's very easy to focus solely on this virus and miss all the stuff that is building just off camera. This is far more than just a virus. And the virus is serious enough. As it becomes more obvious what is happening in the economic/banking/monetary realm, as civil unrest begins to crescendo, this virus will have to share the limelight with a number of other life changing issues. I happen to be a student of monetary history, and i can promise you what has unfolded this past week is unprecedented. By many measures what has transpired is more dramatic and much more rapid than the economic destruction that led to the Great Depression. It will not be remedied .....the economic and monetary system we have always known is no more...and it's not coming back. The international tensions all of this is already exacerbating will result in war, sooner or later. Whether this takes 3 months or three years to reach that point I don't know. But apart from a sovereign move of God, that's exactly where it is going. And I don't think His plan is to stop it. The day of reckoning for 80 million innocent unborn lives, and for legislating immorality has arrived. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneeIW Posted March 21, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 780 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted March 21, 2020 30 minutes ago, Jostler said: I happen to be a student of monetary history, and i can promise you what has unfolded this past week is unprecedented I was actually emailing with the guy who was credited, or I should say punished(or scapegoated) for creating the derivative in the early 2000s. I’m sure if I said his name you would know it. He doesn’t seem to think this is the end of the economy, but I didn’t ask specific questions. im just so confused because I actually feel 2008 was worse because the banks were unstable. This time around it’s all about no money coming in. The banking system seems fine The economy seems to be directly tied to how long this thing will go on and people seem to understand that. That’s good they understand because they won’t feel afraid to spend money after this is over versus 2008 when everybody was saving as much as they could because they didn’t know how stable things were. No one has lost their job this time around because of bad bets being made in the financial sector along with those who were taking on more debt than they could afford(subprime loans). Many have loss jobs because of a very specific problem that we are trying to fix and China seems to have has some success. i think the economy recovers slowly when we don’t have a clear picture of why things deteriorated in the first place. Also, the economy seems to get in trouble when it’s doing well based on factors that are superficial and were not created to weather the test of time such as all of the dot.com companies during the Internet boom. It also seems like the stock market grew too fast under Trump and was bound to come down anyway. We were naturally headed for a recession anyway. The Unprecedented losses these past few weeks seem to speak to the fact that the market was doing abnormally well in the first place. And combine that with a shocking pandemic, it just seems normal that the economy would take a massive hit considering the circumstances and it seems like when it’s over we will return to normal because we have a clear handle on what happened. But I’m no expert and sorry if this was annoying to read!!!! maybe it’s just wishful thinking on my part, but again, 2008 seemed far more serious.it was about people getting away with creating a very difficult to understand product(too difficult to even be prosecuted for it because the feds didn’t even understand the product) and then betting against the product while they made billions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jostler Posted March 23, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 24 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,679 Content Per Day: 1.36 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 16 Joined: 01/19/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted March 23, 2020 On 3/21/2020 at 1:29 PM, ReneeIW said: I was actually emailing with the guy who was credited, or I should say punished(or scapegoated) for creating the derivative in the early 2000s. I’m sure if I said his name you would know it. He doesn’t seem to think this is the end of the economy, but I didn’t ask specific questions. im just so confused because I actually feel 2008 was worse because the banks were unstable. This time around it’s all about no money coming in. The banking system seems fine The economy seems to be directly tied to how long this thing will go on and people seem to understand that. That’s good they understand because they won’t feel afraid to spend money after this is over versus 2008 when everybody was saving as much as they could because they didn’t know how stable things were. No one has lost their job this time around because of bad bets being made in the financial sector along with those who were taking on more debt than they could afford(subprime loans). Many have loss jobs because of a very specific problem that we are trying to fix and China seems to have has some success. i think the economy recovers slowly when we don’t have a clear picture of why things deteriorated in the first place. Also, the economy seems to get in trouble when it’s doing well based on factors that are superficial and were not created to weather the test of time such as all of the dot.com companies during the Internet boom. It also seems like the stock market grew too fast under Trump and was bound to come down anyway. We were naturally headed for a recession anyway. The Unprecedented losses these past few weeks seem to speak to the fact that the market was doing abnormally well in the first place. And combine that with a shocking pandemic, it just seems normal that the economy would take a massive hit considering the circumstances and it seems like when it’s over we will return to normal because we have a clear handle on what happened. But I’m no expert and sorry if this was annoying to read!!!! maybe it’s just wishful thinking on my part, but again, 2008 seemed far more serious.it was about people getting away with creating a very difficult to understand product(too difficult to even be prosecuted for it because the feds didn’t even understand the product) and then betting against the product while they made billions This is a complex topic, and not well studied by most Americans. 1. The banks are less stable now than they were in 2008. I'll just leave that as an assertion because trying to prove it would take a book. But I can assure you the banking system is not "fine"...not by any metric. 2. I think your perception that the stock market "grew too fast" is entirely accurate. Before this latest crash, price to earnings rations were higher than at any point in history. That's a metric that indicates the value of a stock, and many, many stocks were trading at prices that simply no longer had any relationship to the business' ability to earn income and make a profit. COVID-19 was just the pin that happened to pop the bubble.....but stock prices were destined to fall because of something simply because the markets were so overvalued it was inevitable. 3. The corruption you addressed in the closing lines of your post is worse now than 2008. Absolutely nothing was done to address that, by design. Mortgage backed securities and all the corruption surrounding those was one of the main reasons for the 2008 crisis. It may surprise you to discover there are MORE MBS (and more of them are "sub-prime") by dollar value than there were in 2008. 4. Over leveraged banks are FAR more vulnerable now than in 2008 and once more, we see the "too big to fail" excuse being trotted out as the reason why the banksters got to enjoy all those highly leveraged and very risky bets they've made, but the taxpayer will be responsible for saving them from the consequences. The whole purpose of the Federal Reserve system and the global reserve currency is to privatize profits, and socialize losses. This time they have a choice, let the banks fail and watch the system implode, or print enough money to save the banks, and watch the dollar itself implode. Either way the "system" as we have known it is toast. When you see Mexico defaulting on sovereign debt payments....we have about two weeks... Europe is likely to begin experiencing a severe banking crisis first (it already is, they are just hiding it for now, papering it over for as long as that manages to last) For those that want to get some insight into what is coming, you really need to understand the monetary system. With too much time on our hands now, and for the foreseeable future, some might consider getting educated and one way to do that is just take this series a bite at a time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyV0OfU3-FU&list=PLK8aHk5TqClBale3rjOeeQ1wdxZgtiJCA And once more I'll link to Chris Martenson, who has for 60 days now been giving simply excellent, data driven analyses of both this pandemic and economic/monetary issues. Start at the beginning if you want to see what information has been available, and that it HAS been available weeks and months before the government admitted it, you'll get some very realistic insights into why governments CHOOSE to lie to us. And will continue to lie to keep the sheep in their pens and quiet, until it's too late to do anything to protect themselves. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRgTUN1zz_oeQpnJxpeaEkFimDeepqyWf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneeIW Posted March 25, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 780 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) On 3/23/2020 at 2:32 AM, Jostler said: This is a complex topic, and not well studied by most Americans. 1. The banks are less stable now than they were in 2008. I'll just leave that as an assertion because trying to prove it would take a book. But I can assure you the banking system is not "fine"...not by any metric. 2. I think your perception that the stock market "grew too fast" is entirely accurate. Before this latest crash, price to earnings rations were higher than at any point in history. That's a metric that indicates the value of a stock, and many, many stocks were trading at prices that simply no longer had any relationship to the business' ability to earn income and make a profit. COVID-19 was just the pin that happened to pop the bubble.....but stock prices were destined to fall because of something simply because the markets were so overvalued it was inevitable. 3. The corruption you addressed in the closing lines of your post is worse now than 2008. Absolutely nothing was done to address that, by design. Mortgage backed securities and all the corruption surrounding those was one of the main reasons for the 2008 crisis. It may surprise you to discover there are MORE MBS (and more of them are "sub-prime") by dollar value than there were in 2008. 4. Over leveraged banks are FAR more vulnerable now than in 2008 and once more, we see the "too big to fail" excuse being trotted out as the reason why the banksters got to enjoy all those highly leveraged and very risky bets they've made, but the taxpayer will be responsible for saving them from the consequences. The whole purpose of the Federal Reserve system and the global reserve currency is to privatize profits, and socialize losses. This time they have a choice, let the banks fail and watch the system implode, or print enough money to save the banks, and watch the dollar itself implode. Either way the "system" as we have known it is toast. When you see Mexico defaulting on sovereign debt payments....we have about two weeks... Europe is likely to begin experiencing a severe banking crisis first (it already is, they are just hiding it for now, papering it over for as long as that manages to last) For those that want to get some insight into what is coming, you really need to understand the monetary system. With too much time on our hands now, and for the foreseeable future, some might consider getting educated and one way to do that is just take this series a bite at a time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyV0OfU3-FU&list=PLK8aHk5TqClBale3rjOeeQ1wdxZgtiJCA And once more I'll link to Chris Martenson, who has for 60 days now been giving simply excellent, data driven analyses of both this pandemic and economic/monetary issues. Start at the beginning if you want to see what information has been available, and that it HAS been available weeks and months before the government admitted it, you'll get some very realistic insights into why governments CHOOSE to lie to us. And will continue to lie to keep the sheep in their pens and quiet, until it's too late to do anything to protect themselves. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRgTUN1zz_oeQpnJxpeaEkFimDeepqyWf Hi Jostler, Responding to this late but just wanted to say a couple of things. First, I’m sure you would agree that it’s up to the Lord whether or not this virus or any other event causes the economy to get to the point of no return. I’m still operating under the assumption that the Lord is being merciful towards us an allowing us to chose to be good stewards over what He has given us. I need to commit to reading through the Proverbs this week, which has lots of wisdom about managing money. That said, I did want to quickly comment about a few things you said. 1. We are probably talking about two different things and I do think it would be a prolonged discussion and probably not fit for a Christian forum. But if you are talking about the fact that we don’t have the gold to back up the money we are printing, then I agree. But the banks and the government learned lessons from 2008 and I will leave my opinion at that. 2. I will just say that we will always go through recessions. Even the Bible talks about that and implores us to make sure we are saving for the times when we are on a down swing. 3. More derivatives wouldn’t surprise me. That’s what Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are all about. Derivatives are not bad in and of themselves. Manipulating circumstances and betting against them is what is bad.The difference now is you cannot bring down the economy the same way in 2008 without a victim. This was not people on Wall Street creating a complicated product in full view of everyone and somehow the economy crashed.These were people scheming behind the scenes and targeting banks and ultimately the consumer.This was fraud.Fraud only works if there is an uniformed victim. Between 2002-2006, the victim was the consumer. First, Alan Greenspan told everyone to go out and buy a home. He then told everyone to get a ARM. That planted the bad seed. I vividly remember going into the bank for a mortgage and being told I was stupid for getting a 30 year fixed rate loan, and even stupider for not buying a house for 30% more than I could afford because my household income would go up. Banks were told to give everyone a loan no matter what and bankers received bonuses for closing lots of loans. They didn’t know the motive was to write bad loans that people couldn’t pay back so that a few could get rich. 4. Too big too fail was one excuse. No laws written that addressed their practices was another excuse. The ones betting against the derivatives said they didn’t know what they were doing was wrong and prosecutors couldn't prove otherwise. And I don’t believe it was “risky” for them. They created the scheme and knew exactly what they were doing. But we may be talking about two different things. we will see what happens.? I think if the Lord brings us out of the corona virus, the economy will rebound, IF it is HIS will. Edited March 25, 2020 by ReneeIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted March 25, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,283 Content Per Day: 3.31 Reputation: 16,696 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Online Share Posted March 25, 2020 In WA we have been ordered by the governor to shelter in place. We can leave the house for food, maybe gas, and medical appointments. But we are encouraged to go for walks or exercise outside as long as we stay 6 feet from each other. I have been told they might close down the borders. They still aren't dealing with the toilet paper shortage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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